Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[Fedayn]

Lets be honest you should replace ''local people'' with ''british people''

That's what people are thinking

So, when those demands were passed by a mass meeting of the strikers at Lindsay why didn't they do exactly what you say above? Do let us in on your greater knowledge.

 

[free spirit]

more bad news - eddie stobbart's closing it's scunthorpe depot

 

[badco]

So, when those demands were passed by a mass meeting of the strikers at Lindsay why didn't they do exactly what you say above? Do let us in on your greater knowledge.

That post has confused me.Can you explain in more detail please

 

[Spion]

This.

Spion, do you have any evidence that the Socialist Party members who proposed these demands did so out of xenophobia?

The only 'evidence' I have of anything is the inclusion of the word local in one line of a set of demands. But I'd gladly hear some explanation of why it is there

 

[badco]

The only 'evidence' I have of anything is the inclusion of the word local in one line of a set of demands. But I'd gladly hear some explanation of why it is there

Still don'y understand

 

[free spirit]

Lets be honest you should replace ''local people'' with ''british people''

That's what people are thinking

so, if it was 300 cornish lads (or scots, or geordies or whatever) being shipped in en masse to do the work and refusing to employ local workers, then the local lads would all be fine with that would they?

we're not talking about the odd person here and there, we're talking about a contract for 300 jobs, with all 300 of the jobs going to people from outside the area... in this case to a firm employing Italian and Portugese workers... but it's not the fact their Italian or Portugese that's the problem is it, it's the fact that no local workers are going to be employed on the contract.... and the perception (fact?) that they're being used to undermine nationally agreed pay agreements.

 

[danny la rouge]

we're not talking about the odd person here

We are: badco.

 

[badco]

so, if it was 300 cornish lads (or scots, or geordies or whatever) being shipped in en masse to do the work and refusing to employ local workers, then the local lads would all be fine with that would they?

we're not talking about the odd person here and there, we're talking about a contract for 300 jobs, with all 300 of the jobs going to people from outside the area... in this case to a firm employing Italian and Portugese workers... but it's not the fact their Italian or Portugese that's the problem is it, it's the fact that no local workers are going to be employed on the contract.

Did the placards say british jobs for local workers?

I think these protests sum up the feelings of working class brits brilliantelly

 

[butchersapron]

...and they chased you off the picket

 

[danny la rouge]

...and they chased you off the picket

Which sums up feelings of working class Britons brilliantly.

 

[Fedayn]

That post has confused me.Can you explain in more detail please

You said, and I quote, "Lets be honest you should replace ''local people'' with ''british people'' That's what people are thinking". I then pointed out that the demands that included the point Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available was supported overwhelmingly by strikers at the Lindsay refinery. Why, if they supported and were thinking what you claim, did they not change it then? Why wasn't there a simple demand of no foreigners. Why was a demand included, and overwhelmingly supported, specifically calling for help for immigrant workers if it was simplistically about antagonism towards foreign workers?

 

[badco]

Why wasn't there a simple demand of no foreigners. Why was a demand included, and overwhelmingly supported, specifically calling for help for immigrant workers if it was simplistically about antagonism towards foreign workers?

Don't know

 

[audiotech]

sort of busts nationally-agreed union positions tho doesn't it - and makes me wonder why strikers from other parts of the Uk would support it, unless they also want a divided workforce

Had a mate (dead now) who worked on power stations accross the country, along with many others who were on contract. In this case carrying out specialist laggiing work. Hard to see how restricting work to 'locals' would help workers in this position.

 

[editor]

Shut up you fucking spaz

Not acceptable.

 

[Fedayn]

Don't know

But, even though you admit you don't know why such a demand was overwhelmingly supported, you still tell us it's about anger towards foreign workers! How do you square that circle?

 

[DotCommunist]

I've worked construction sites as an industrial cleaner. Relations between Brit workers and the poles or romanians were civil (if the bog graffitti was xenophopic, but then it usually is regardless).

This isn't an issue of foriegn workers sharing a job, but an entire workforce displaced in favour of cheaper imported labour.

 

[badco]

But, even though you admit you don't know why such a demand was overwhelmingly supported, you still tell us it's about anger towards foreign workers! How do you square that circle?

Which demand?

 

[badco]

so, if it was 300 cornish lads (or scots, or geordies or whatever) being shipped in en masse to do the work and refusing to employ local workers, then the local lads would all be fine with that would they?

Probably not.......But it wouldn't be such a fucking kick in the face as getting in people who receive half your wage for exactly that reason

If you people were replaced in your jobs by people working at half your pay how would you feel?(I know that is not the case in this situation)

 

[Fedayn]

Which demand?

In fact 2 demands, these 2...

All Immigrant labour to be unionised.

Trade Union assistance for immigrant workers - including interpreters - and access to Trade Union advice - to promote active integrated Trade Union Members.

If the strike was simply about what you say why were the above 2 demands overwhelmingly supported by the mass meeting of strikers?

 

[badco]

so, if it was 300 cornish lads (or scots, or geordies or whatever) being shipped in en masse to do the work and refusing to employ local workers, then the local lads would all be fine with that would they?

And lets be honest these protest aren't about that are they................They're about foreign workers taking british jobs........hence the placards

Don't be so pedantic

 

[durruti02]

Primarily it ought to be about building pan-European w/c solidarity!
So did the Brit Unions talk to the Italian Unions already?

lol! talk about running before you can walk! lets support them if we can and get some sort of a win under our belt first

 

[durruti02]

Why on earth should jobs be only available to locals?

it seems you do not know the first thing about trade unionism

- the key thing we have as a class is power to withdraw labour - that is why control of labour is critical - that is why this issue is so key and has been so destructive over the last few years - forcing capital to employ locally give our class power -

when you get local people employed rates of union density are always higher

local jobs for local people also makes for sustainable work - in this case that is not entirely relevent as it is a project requiring skilled outside labour - so the local would mean in the area or region instead of busing in from hundreds of miles away - though many of the jobs could be local

the demand also makes 100% sense to anyone who lives and works in the real world? you got kids? mine is looking for work at the moment, unsuccessfully - people rightly put the nearest and dearest first .. this is NOT wrong ..

the deal is to generalise that but you can not generalise solidarity from a divided and beaten and fragmented class .. we need to get class power where we live and work before we will get more generalised solidarity

 

[bolshiebhoy]

the demand also makes 100% sense to anyone who lives and works in the real world? you got kids? mine is looking for work at the moment, unsuccessfully - people rightly put the nearest and dearest first .. this is NOT wrong ..

It mightn't be but it's got feck all to do with trades unionism, solidarity or socialism.

 

[durruti02]

It mightn't be but it's got feck all to do with trades unionism, solidarity or socialism.

half agree half disagree .. but read the rest of my post .. organising locally and demanding local work has everything to do with organising succesfully, with trade unionism and with solidarity .. why were the miners so strong?

but i part agree as trade unionism of itself has nowt to do with socialism ..but without trade unionism there is NO chance of socialism .. the uk soft left has tried to bypass the w/c on its m/c road to socialism for too long ..

 

[e19896]

from The Socialist Party:

Update on the spreading strikes by construction engineers in the refinery and power industry
Report by phone from Alistair Tice (Yorkshire Socialist Party) on the mass picket at the Lindsey total refinery North Lincolnshire. Monday 2 February 2009

“The strike committee accepted the main demands of Keith Gibson and John Mckewan to put to the mass meeting today.

Keith is a Socialist Party member and on the strike committee and John is a Socialist Party supporter and victimised worker from the refinery.

The strike committee added an extra demand, calling for John to be reinstated into his job.

The demands were

* No victimisation of workers taking solidarity action.
* All workers in UK to be covered by NAECI Agreement.
* Union controlled registering of unemployed and locally skilled union members, with nominating rights as work becomes available.
* Government and employer investment in proper training / apprenticeships for new generation of construction workers - fight for a future for young people.
* All Immigrant labour to be unionised.
* Trade Union assistance for immigrant workers - including interpreters - and access to Trade Union advice - to promote active integrated Trade Union Members.
* Build links with construction trade unions on the continent.

The mass meeting overwhelmingly voted for the demands put to them by the strike committee.

Prior to the meeting Keith and John (and their wives who had came to support the strikers) had seen some BNP members in the car park and told them that they were not welcome, with that the BNP cleared off.

Socialist Party members gave out over 700 leaflets putting our position (which was now the position of the strike committee) and the leaflet was welcomed. One worker (before he read the leaflet) thought that were giving out BNP leaflets and protested that he was not a racist and didn’t support the BNP and was relieved when it was explained to him that they were Socialist Party leaflets and supported workers unity.

Keith is part of the negotiating committee that is now in discussions with the management at the refinery. The strike is continuing and looks as if it is spreading throughout the country at the time of writing with Sellafield and Heysham nuclear plants out. Workers at other plants, according to the BBC, have also decided to stay out, these include Grangemouth and Longannon in Scotland. Warrington and Staythope in Newark are also out as well.

The strikes are spreading from fiddlers ferry in Warrington to the Drax power station in Yorkshire.

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/latest/6850

 

[bolshiebhoy]

half agree half disagree .. but read the rest of my post .. organising locally and demanding local work has everything to do with organising succesfully, with trade unionism and with solidarity .. why were the miners so strong?

You ever seen Matewan? Now that's how miners dealt successfully with the issue of local vs foreign labour. Not by demanding the foreigners be kept out.

 

[free spirit]

Probably not.......But it wouldn't be such a fucking kick in the face as getting in people who receive half your wage for exactly that reason

If you people were replaced in your jobs by people working at half your pay how would you feel?(I know that is not the case in this situation)

I'd feel fucked off, but I'd feel fucked off because the tossers in charge had decided to try to undermine existing pay and conditions agreements by bringing in cheaper labour from outside the area, not fucked off because they'd specifically decided to employ foreigners.

And lets be honest these protest aren't about that are they................They're about foreign workers taking british jobs........hence the placards

Don't be so pedantic

it's pedantry with a purpose though - to not allow the cause of the strike to be portrayed as racism, when it's actually about legitimate campaign to ensure the multinational corporation keeps employing local people of all races at agreed rates, rather than using a loophole in the law to allow them to import cheaper labour from other countries where workers have not been as successful in maintaining pay and conditions as they have here.

surely you can see that if this is portrayed as a racist dispute, the strikers will lose public support, and be much less likely to achieve their aims.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

<snip> surely you can see that if this is portrayed as a racist dispute, the strikers will lose public support, and be much less likely to achieve their aims.

That's the whole point. It's a really neat strategy. On the one hand, portraying it as a racist dispute causes the BNP to opportunistically descend on it, which in turn provides some actual racists as 'evidence'. On the other hand, not only does the faintest whiff of racism cause a whole bunch of potential supporters to withdraw their solidarity, but it provides an exciting talking point for the capitalist media which allows the racism issue to dominate their coverage and ignore the 'scab labour brought in to increase profits at the expense of workers' issue.

 

[audiotech]

It mightn't be but it's got feck all to do with trades unionism, solidarity or socialism.

You're right.

 

[belboid]

Paul Mason on newsnight shortly, hopefully will idiots like MC5 just why he is being an idiot.