Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[FridgeMagnet]

Look, it's very simple, at least in my mind, and I'll share it with you even though you don't care. So here we go:

If you see the foreign workers as the appropriate target for your anger, you are at best nationalist and misguided. At worst you might be racist, but without knowing people in person how are we to judge?

If you see the exploitative bosses as the appropriate target for your anger, then get the fuck on with opposing them and organising workers to campaign for better pay and conditions, and don't talk about the 'problem of foreign workers'. The foreign workers are not the problem.

As for the people striking, I imagine they hold a wide range of different views. Labelling the strike itself as racist is absurd and insulting.

When the strikers campaign against the bosses, they should be encouraged and helped, when they campaign against foreign workers they should be engaged with and challenged, and with any luck pulled into a debate about who is really fucking them over.

Is this really so difficult for everyone? Fuck me.

Seems perfectly fair on a quick read.

 

[treelover]

I haven't seem any interviews whatsoever with the Italian workers, wonder if they have been banned from speaking to the press?

 

[Talkie Toaster]

"Italian" wasn't a different race to "British" last time I looked ... indeed, neither are races.

 

[Talkie Toaster]

Look, it's very simple, at least in my mind, and I'll share it with you even though you don't care. So here we go:

If you see the foreign workers as the appropriate target for your anger, you are at best nationalist and misguided. At worst you might be racist, but without knowing people in person how are we to judge?

If you see the exploitative bosses as the appropriate target for your anger, then get the fuck on with opposing them and organising workers to campaign for better pay and conditions, and don't talk about the 'problem of foreign workers'. The foreign workers are not the problem.

As for the people striking, I imagine they hold a wide range of different views. Labelling the strike itself as racist is absurd and insulting.

When the strikers campaign against the bosses, they should be encouraged and helped, when they campaign against foreign workers they should be engaged with and challenged, and with any luck pulled into a debate about who is really fucking them over.

Is this really so difficult for everyone? Fuck me.

It seems so.

 

[dennisr]

Posted elsewhere:

"I just spoke to a national GMB official and he was saying that a number of agencies involved in the sector are point blank refusing to hire UK workers in a deliberate attempt to smash union organisation and drive down wages."

 

[DotCommunist]

Posted elsewhere:

"I just spoke to a national GMB official and he was saying that a number of agencies involved in the sector are point blank refusing to hire UK workers in a deliberate attempt to smash union organisation and drive down wages."

freedom of capital to move is unfettered, freedom of labour to move is regulated by greed.

I don't blame the italians seeking a nice wedge in a labour market where they can earn well.

Those authorities squeezing extra profit by displacing a workforce already available in situ are scum

 

[treelover]

Posted elsewhere:

"I just spoke to a national GMB official and he was saying that a number of agencies involved in the sector are point blank refusing to hire UK workers in a deliberate attempt to smash union organisation and drive down wages."
Reply With Quote

Bloody Hell, thats pretty heavy,

btw, some fantastic insights in to the industry on the Cruddas Guardian CIF article UKBlaza is a good one

 

[treelover]

Total stupidity makes British patience snap
We should be angry that the skilled oilmen of Lindsey now find themselves flotsam and jetsam on the economic tide
Janice Turner

For weeks now I've been wondering, where is the rage? The French break out the barricades to wipe off Sarko's smirk, Icelanders besiege the Government that short-sold their country, and bring it down with flaming torches and pelted eggs. But in Britain we've treated the recession like a bad turn in the weather. It's made us tetchy, but why waste actual anger on an immutable force? Just hunker down, shrug, retrench, deaden your dread with Mamma Mia! and comfort food. Yet why not take to the streets too? There was cause enough when the banks that we bailed out with public billions still awarded mighty bonuses to executives who should be in jail. The same banks that won't lend a few grand to save small firms with full order books but no cash flow. We have, as a nation, taken the news of our impending doom with implacable calm and forbearance. Until now.

Many will dismiss the protests at the Lindsey oil refinery as evidence of the meat-headed ignorance and default racism of our white working class. Hasn't a decade of knock-down Bangladeshi T-shirts and Chinese DVDs taught these men that we're all global citizens now? And that, of course, the oil corporation Total would blow out five British companies bidding for its £200 million contract if the Italian IREM bidder was cheaper. Why should it care that the fathers and uncles of local men built that refinery or be moved by the tiny, parochial, non-global facts that a quarter of Humberside lives in poverty and that unemployment in Lincolnshire has risen by 47 per cent in a year. Why not draft in Italian and Portuguese workers - if it adds a point-something of a per cent to profits - and house them in great, grey barges on Grimsby docks while beyond the boundary fence local families struggle to keep their homes.

Up in the thin, frozen air of Davos the policy wonks and masters of the universe still sing the free-trade song. “Protectionism protects nobody,” said Gordon Brown. “This is the time for the world to come together as one.” We must keep international capital flowing, arrest this primitive circle-the-wagons instinct in hard times to look after our own. I am not an economist, I just know how this attitude feels: deeply wrong.
The culture has changed, it's just that some people are slower to realise it - those not yet picking through the “reduced” shelf for cheaper cuts of meat - like the US executives who blithely rocked up to Washington to discuss receiving a government bailout in their fancy executive jet.

Wake up, guys. Morality should enter economic decision-making, whether it is me refusing to buy flown-in American Pink Ladies in Sainsbury's during the British apple season or Total oil shareholders who should take a tiny hit to ensure that the workforce who earned them great wealth, now in a time of need gets a little back. One could, in theory, ship over Mumbai street urchins to paint one's house. But is the cheapest decision always the right one? I hope Total executives are pondering that now as placard-wavers and news crews cripple their plant.

In 2007, when Gordon Brown announced that he would be “drawing on the talents of all to create British jobs for British workers”, I was lambasted by friends and colleagues, even called a BNP stooge, for agreeing. Because I interpreted his words to mean that it is amoral to leave an idle British underclass to rot on sink estates just because the CBI finds it cheaper to employ young, willing Eastern European graduates than give Britain's poor training and hope. Some who would call me racist have themselves the most hateful, almost eugenic disgust for the white working class: the chavs, the pikeys, the Tennants-swilling pram-faces and hoodies whom they mock and fear.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article5622048.ece

Powerful article in the Times

 

[where to]

I haven't seem any interviews whatsoever with the Italian workers, wonder if they have been banned from speaking to the press?

from the Independent:

The official line from the 100 Italian and Portuguese craftsmen billeted here since just after Christmas, was a polite "no comment" – enforced by port security guards who made it their business to escort passing journalists off the premises.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...the-eye-of-storm-keep-their-cool-1521669.html

 

[e19896]

There is no doubt the far right are highjacking this action, it is a Bourgios Anarchist wet dream come true, and the left we know what scum the Middle Class are, here is a very real direct consequence of their internationalism, read action-against-classism it comes as no suprise to us here at underclass rising, now move along there is nothing to see, of course we hope the march on Tuesday ends up in a riot and that The working class confront the real enemy of our class The Middle Class, now would'nt that be a grand thing to see happen. The Lackeys of the state (The Police) and who they are employed to protect The Middle Class get a good kicking from an angry Working Class, this is where we need to turn our anger and not on to fellow workers, no matter the fact of whome they are they are workers living under The Ocupation of The Middle Class and until we make them history we shall never be free living in unity.

 

[kittyP]

freedom of capital to move is unfettered, freedom of labour to move is regulated by greed.

I don't blame the italians seeking a nice wedge in a labour market where they can earn well.

Those authorities squeezing extra profit by displacing a workforce already available in situ are scum

I was looking for someone that could put it half well.

Not that DC is putting in badly, I mean that there is no good answer, it is so so so complicated and everyone feels differently about it.
DC had the best reply to my thoughts that there was.

I couldn't type my full answer as I have had a finger bleeding everywhere due to cooking tea and its hindering

 

[kittyP]

There is no doubt the far right are highjacking this action, it is a Bourgios Anarchist wet dream come true, and the left we know what scum the Middle Class are, here is a very real direct consequence of their internationalism, read action-against-classism it comes as no suprise to us here at underclass rising, now move along there is nothing to see, of course we hope the march on Tuesday ends up in a riot and that The working class confront the real enemy of our class The Middle Class, now would'nt that be a grand thing to see happen. The Lackeys of the state (The Police) and who they are employed to protect The Middle Class get a good kicking from an angry Working Class, this is where we need to turn our anger and not on to fellow workers, no matter the fact of whome they are they are workers living under The Ocupation of The Middle Class and until we make them history we shall never be free living in unity.

Possibly a little judgemental of the (so called, I don't really know who they are) middle classes?
You are tarring everyone across with board with the same brushes!

 

[e19896]

Possibly a little judgemental of the (so called, I don't really know who they are) middle classes?
You are tarring everyone across with board with the same brushes!

now did i say that of course not, and why not be judgemental of The Middle Class? i have very little time for at least 90% of them..

 

[DotCommunist]

Possibly a little judgemental of the (so called, I don't really know who they are) middle classes?
You are tarring everyone across with board with the same brushes!

criticism of a particular spectrum of socio-economic groupings part in the disenfranchising of the socio-economic group below it is NOT an attack on individuals. Rather it is an attack on the system that perpetuates inequality along lines of earning, race, and gender.

Put more simply the mockery at 'jemimas tennis lessons' or 'tarquin's saxophone tuitions' are over simplified articulations of an entirely valid anger at the unfair shape our society takes. The aggrieved martyr stance taken by the benefiting group in our society is doesn't endear them though

 

[kittyP]

now did i say that of course not, and why not be judgemental of The Middle Class? i have very little time for at least 90% of them..

Its a very tricky subject class..... ha ha ha! I am feel very stupid being a regular member of Urban and saying that!

Most of the people I am close to are kinda middle classed.
I say kinda as I am not really sure where we fit in (we are a very varied bunch and I know a lot of people I have a lot of respect for) but I would defend to the end of the earth!

IMHO you really cannot make those kind of absolutes even if you do say 90%!!

I feel sorry that you have come across such a bad bunch of people for you to form such an opinion.

Oh and I am in no way being sarcastic.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

criticism of a particular spectrum of socio-economic groupings part in the disenfranchising of the socio-economic group below it is NOT an attack on individuals. Rather it is an attack on the system that perpetuates inequality along lines of earning, race, and gender.

Put more simply the mockery at 'jemimas tennis lessons' or 'tarquin's saxophone tuitions' are over simplified articulations of an entirely valid anger at the unfair shape our society takes. The aggrieved martyr stance taken by the benefiting group in our society is doesn't endear them though

I am not sure that you are sufficiently familiar with enumbers' posting record here.

 

[kittyP]

criticism of a particular spectrum of socio-economic groupings part in the disenfranchising of the socio-economic group below it is NOT an attack on individuals. Rather it is an attack on the system that perpetuates inequality along lines of earning, race, and gender.

Put more simply the mockery at 'jemimas tennis lessons' or 'tarquin's saxophone tuitions' are over simplified articulations of an entirely valid anger at the unfair shape our society takes. The aggrieved martyr stance taken by the benefiting group in our society is doesn't endear them though

But in my experience this is a very out dated view of the middle classes, they are more now bordering on the left over from the upper classes (if you are being very stereotypical).

At the end of the day it is the individuals that make the difference to other individuals ie. you and me?

 

[treelover]

Kitty, do stay on P/P, your posts are very welcome,

 

[DotCommunist]

But in my experience this is a very out dated view of the middle classes, they are more now bordering on the left over from the upper classes (if you are being very stereotypical).

At the end of the day it is the individuals that make the difference to other individuals ie. you and me?

of course, that is why I said it is an over simplified view. Regardless of stereotype though, the inequality does exist and tired stereotypes are frequently used in leftist discourse.

Christ I'm getting heavy *drinks more to banish the deep thoughts*

 

[kittyP]

Kitty, do stay on P/P, your posts are very welcome,

I am the eternal fence sitter with no conviction so I am not so sure.

Are you mocking me?

 

[kittyP]

of course, that is why I said it is an over simplified view. Regardless of stereotype though, the inequality does exist and tired stereotypes are frequently used in leftist discourse.

Christ I'm getting heavy *drinks more to banish the deep thoughts*

I just never personally get away from the individuals and personal points of view, even to the point that I may back track and contradict myself.

I am however not naive enough to think that inequality doesn't exist.
It is possibly (I re-iterate possibly) a self perpetuating state.

OK, I am cooking and drinking cider so may disappear.

I never take this stuff personally, what would be the point.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

of course, that is why I said it is an over simplified view. Regardless of stereotype though, the inequality does exist and tired stereotypes are frequently used in leftist discourse.

Christ I'm getting heavy *drinks more to banish the deep thoughts*

But he's talking bollocks. As usual.

 

[durruti02]

Article by the SP

Interesting bit in bold.

good on the sp

 

[DotCommunist]

But he's talking bollocks. As usual.

ah did I get sucked in by the grammatically blind poster once again.

curses

 

[where to]

from Jacobs 1st Quarter Earning Call

Strategies to Maintain 15% Growth: Drive down costs continuously

Jacobs, with over 55,000 employees and revenues exceeding $9.0 billion, provides technical, professional, and construction services globally.

they also have 40 offices in the UK having bought over Babtie in 2004.

would these Italians etc be employees of Jacobs, are just contracted to them?

 

[durruti02]

Just watching this on Newsnight. It's really frightening. Both Unite and Unison seem to be involved. I'd be horrified if my union took park in the organisation of a protest that was so xenephobic. Why aren't they protesting against the real problem - the undercutting and undermining of workers rights and wages? The tone of their protest makes my blood run cold.

this doesn';t frighten me, this is great .. people finally saying enouh is enough .. and the langauge? yes i would prefer demands for workers councils but after 30 years of thatcherism life isn't always as we want it .. this is the language people use .. i see little evidence it is racist

 

[durruti02]

I can't support a protest that uses that slogan as it's main message. I'm sorry but I can't. The foreign workers are not the enemy and this is more than just a bit of political incorrectness. This is not the way to campaign on this issue.

i don;t see a general message that the foreigh workers are 'the enemy' .. i see a demand for 'british jobs for britsh people' not words i would use but VERY differrent ..

 

[durruti02]

That said, the SW article is shit. It's not true that the workers have blamed 'Italians or Poles or Portuguese workers', even though many of the slogans used haven't been ones that most of us would. Brown should be targetted for the use of that slogan, as he did so and was obviously lying and paying to the gallery when he did so. For a group just to slag off the strike as being racist (which SW dont quite do, but come close as damn it) just cuts them off from discussing the real issue, which is employing non-union labour on non-union terms. And that means that the soft racist attitudes which do seem to be their to some extent are going to go unchallenged, and could even come to the fore as the main focus of the strike.

Any activity the left take in response to this strike should be to ensure that it targets the gloabalised bosses rather then globalised workers.

good post

 

[where to]

would these Italians etc be employees of Jacobs, are just contracted to them?

employees of IREM.

 

[kittyP]

Having read further, this sub forum is not for me.

All I have to offer is my personal opinion.
It means a lot to me but fuck all to every one else and that's cool.

I'll stick to music, films, nobbin & sobbin etc