discokermit
Well-Known Member
after first discovering this dispute on the uk welder forum, i don't think the phrase is being used as an ironic jibe at brown at all. most of the posters seemed to be quite genuine about the demand.
Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...
- Thread starter treelover
- Start date
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
A smack behind the knees with a bit of scaffold pole, usually.
They aleady are- as stated by most of the media today Nick Robinson of the BBC was saying so today, as was Blunkett on BBC any questions yesterday. Their leaflets have already been going out, as have their poster trucks
Thing is they are they have been beaving away at communities for years now. They are going to have people in those places of work, agitating form inside, if not members then voters who understan full well what "british jobs for british workers" implys. Take, for example, sellafiled, where BNP have been out. A good % of the workers there are likely to come from Whitehaven, where they just polled 40%, so when something like this comes alomng, they are ideally placed to exploit this.
If you want anyone to blame for this debacle, blame the left for failing to organise in these communities and workplaces
Talkie Toaster
New Member
Can someone please define "the left" for me? Apparently this is their fault, so it'd be useful to know who to blame.
Many thanks.
Many thanks.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Sure you're not thinking of the Napoleonic-era use of prison hulks moored in just about every major port?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
snadge
metal alchemist
I don't vote and if I did it wouldn't be BNP.
I'm still waiting to hear if you get paid NAECI rate for your job.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I haven't got time to translate the whole piece for you now, but the article talks about strikes against the employment of foreign workers, it says the dispute has xenophobic tints and that the strikers are calling for protectionist measures by the British govt, It does quote people from the strike/union who deny that it is against foreigners and has an aside about the BNP exploiting economic problems.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
p-u-l-l o-u-t o-f t-h-e f-u-c-k-i-n-g b-a-s-t-a-r-d e-u-r-o-p-e-a-n u-n-i-o-n
Yeah, because that would make a long-term difference to exploitation, wouldn't it?
More sensible to c-o-n-c-e-n-t-r-a-t-e-o-n-e-r-o-d-i-n-g-c-a-p-i-t-a-l-i-s-m so that exploitation doesn't just shift from one exploiter to another, surely?
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Can someone please define "the left" for me? Apparently this is their fault, so it'd be useful to know who to blame.
Many thanks.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Now, any of our Urban bookies wanna offer odds on whether there'll be any anti-union legislative measures in the next Queen's Speech?
discokermit
Well-Known Member
you said "the BNP will address it by excluding foreign workers from UK contracts which IS racist but the person on the dole who regains work through that action does not give one iota and will vote accordingly.", so, is this not true then?
i don't even know what the rate is, to be honest. i've never done any subcontract work.
snadge
metal alchemist
It is not sub contract work
CAT1 site rate, new steel £14 hr, OTrate1 £19.59, OTrate2 £25.18.
National guaranteed rate, this is the minimum you should get in workshop for example, £12.70, £17.76,£22.83
On top of that there should also be a hourly paid bonus and your welders allowance for your certs.
If you are not, you are part of the problem by working for less than the agreed rate.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
i'm on £14/£21/£28, soon to be £15/£22.50/£30. no bonus but no certs for welding either (eitb apprenticeship and c+g 1, 2 +3 mech eng. though). i'm in the workshop all the time now as i refuse to go on site (too cold, too much of a pain in the arse).
so, bit more then. very rarely do overtime though.
so what be the reason you give for your bullying of posters on urban 75, you can make all the nasty vindictive comments you like about myself, i have a pride in being underclass, a pride in being scum.
however you are causing real hurt and upset to others with nasty crass comments and no exchange of thought, in words you are no better than the swp who use the same rules of exchange, when there is no real defence for their position or argument, when it is full of shit.
there is no side to be taken here, reason for my absence on this post and it shall remain the same, only reason for posting is the bullying from you belboid, i dislike bullies, theyre cowards who have no real argument, who need to scapegoat another for their own weakness, this is what you are doing.
please do not let this comment de-rail the subject, i read with interest and agree with some of the post here, but i will not abide bullying of any kind are we clear on that point at least belboid?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I've seen various reports on blogs etc that are talking about explicit racism from some of the strikers. they're not from people I'd say were always accurate, or unbiased, but the number of them is worrying. Including threats to sink the 'floatel' and calling the Italians 'a bunch of wops'.
I'd be surprised if that attitude was commonplace considering the explicit rejection of such attitudes by every worker that was interviewed on the news over the last couple of days, but it can't be ruled out. It'll be a fucking disaster if it is true, and will probably split the strikers down the middle too.
I'd be surprised if that attitude was commonplace considering the explicit rejection of such attitudes by every worker that was interviewed on the news over the last couple of days, but it can't be ruled out. It'll be a fucking disaster if it is true, and will probably split the strikers down the middle too.
do it to my face, and then lets see who is a dear hypocrite, and are we talking about myself or your actions on a keyboard your full of shit, and i have no hassels in faceing myself and talking direct to people, i need not a keyboard becuase what i used to be ie a bully like you and where i find myself right here right now, is very much difront to the cowerd you are, just point out where you think i have acted like a cowerd here or any where and lets have a conversation, time is the underclass stood up to lefty bullshiters like yourself.
The fact is, there is nothing the government can do. The Italians have a legal right to work in the UK as members of the EU.
It is globalisation. I don't like it, but that is how it is.
I am afraid multi cultural societies only work well in good economic times. The shit is hitting the fan, and when people lose their jobs, and see foreigners working, when they are not, their reactions are not very pc.
I don't think a bunch of lefties appearing on the picket lines will help. Being told how they are getting it wrong, by a 20 year old middle class SWP member, would not go down well.
Telling them their racists, is likely to get you a smack in the mouth.
The far left are useless, they have not got a clue about the working classes. People care more about their jobs than events in Gaza. In fact I would go as far to say, most workers could not give a flying shit what is happening in Gaza.
The far left meanwhile still carry on in their own little world. They should stick to protesting about Israel, or Iraq, and stay away from the real world.
Our government will have to sit this out, and hope it will fizzle out when the workers need to go back as their money begins to run out.
It is globalisation. I don't like it, but that is how it is.
I am afraid multi cultural societies only work well in good economic times. The shit is hitting the fan, and when people lose their jobs, and see foreigners working, when they are not, their reactions are not very pc.
I don't think a bunch of lefties appearing on the picket lines will help. Being told how they are getting it wrong, by a 20 year old middle class SWP member, would not go down well.
Telling them their racists, is likely to get you a smack in the mouth.
The far left are useless, they have not got a clue about the working classes. People care more about their jobs than events in Gaza. In fact I would go as far to say, most workers could not give a flying shit what is happening in Gaza.
The far left meanwhile still carry on in their own little world. They should stick to protesting about Israel, or Iraq, and stay away from the real world.
Our government will have to sit this out, and hope it will fizzle out when the workers need to go back as their money begins to run out.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
that is properly bollocks, you ignorant twat.
dennisr
the acceptable face
Evidence! I don't mean students taking over class rooms either.
Did I miss something? At this very moment are thousands of workers striking against the Israeli war? Are thousands of workers having sit ins at their place of work?
The only strike I see, is the subject of this thread.
dennisr
the acceptable face
A 'racist' strike?
http://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com/2009/01/racist-strike.html
"But, somewhat surprisingly, it is left to the Daily Star(!) to show this dispute is about class, not race. An anonymous scaffolder tells the soaraway Star “we need to make a stand now. This is not a racist protest. I’m happy to work hand-in-hand with foreign workers, but we are not getting a look in. There are guys at this site who had been banking on that work and then it gets handed to an Italian firm. It’s about fairness.” No doubt some of these workers will have attitudes a lot less enlightened than the chap above."
http://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com/2009/01/racist-strike.html
"But, somewhat surprisingly, it is left to the Daily Star(!) to show this dispute is about class, not race. An anonymous scaffolder tells the soaraway Star “we need to make a stand now. This is not a racist protest. I’m happy to work hand-in-hand with foreign workers, but we are not getting a look in. There are guys at this site who had been banking on that work and then it gets handed to an Italian firm. It’s about fairness.” No doubt some of these workers will have attitudes a lot less enlightened than the chap above."
discokermit
Well-Known Member
we have had lots of discussions about it at work (a fabrication workshop in croydon). lot's of people were outraged and disgusted.
you said they couldn't give a shit, so that is clearly bollocks, from a personal point of view.
do you think working class people are too ignorant and stupid to see past their own borders? too selfish to care about anything other than their own immediate financial situation. you think they can't think about two things at once?
your comment is an insult to working class people.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Look, it's very simple, at least in my mind, and I'll share it with you even though you don't care. So here we go:
If you see the foreign workers as the appropriate target for your anger, you are at best nationalist and misguided. At worst you might be racist, but without knowing people in person how are we to judge?
If you see the exploitative bosses as the appropriate target for your anger, then get the fuck on with opposing them and organising workers to campaign for better pay and conditions, and don't talk about the 'problem of foreign workers'. The foreign workers are not the problem.
As for the people striking, I imagine they hold a wide range of different views. Labelling the strike itself as racist is absurd and insulting.
When the strikers campaign against the bosses, they should be encouraged and helped, when they campaign against foreign workers they should be engaged with and challenged, and with any luck pulled into a debate about who is really fucking them over.
Is this really so difficult for everyone? Fuck me.
If you see the foreign workers as the appropriate target for your anger, you are at best nationalist and misguided. At worst you might be racist, but without knowing people in person how are we to judge?
If you see the exploitative bosses as the appropriate target for your anger, then get the fuck on with opposing them and organising workers to campaign for better pay and conditions, and don't talk about the 'problem of foreign workers'. The foreign workers are not the problem.
As for the people striking, I imagine they hold a wide range of different views. Labelling the strike itself as racist is absurd and insulting.
When the strikers campaign against the bosses, they should be encouraged and helped, when they campaign against foreign workers they should be engaged with and challenged, and with any luck pulled into a debate about who is really fucking them over.
Is this really so difficult for everyone? Fuck me.
Sadly many working class people, the C2's if you like have been remarkably absent from the whole anti-imperialism decade, on the local Lebanon demo, there were only three construxction workers, and they were polish! Some youngsters I know have said their mates persuaded not to go on the demo's
sorry, but that is the realist view...
Soony, I I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability.....
sorry, but that is the realist view...
Soony, I I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability.....
discokermit
Well-Known Member
what you on about? you asking people on demos what their relationship to the means of production is?
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