Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...
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lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Saw the workers from Aberthaw in S.Wales on the news. The spokesman explained that they weren't protesting against foreign workers but against the bosses- he even said that they work alongside Poles at Aberthaw and had 'taken them under their wing' and that 'we will accept more use of foreign labour if the recession blows over'. Seemed like a pretty fair line to me- but it's easy to see how this will be/is being misrepresented in the dumbed down media.
The risk of the BNP capitalising on this must be small, after all they are banned from the trade union movement and any BNP members handing out literature at actions would be clocked straight away, i'm hoping? Plus, surely it's not a 100% white workforce, if there are a few black and Asian workers protesting as well then that's immediately workers who are excluded from joining or supporting a whites-only party.
The risk of the BNP capitalising on this must be small, after all they are banned from the trade union movement and any BNP members handing out literature at actions would be clocked straight away, i'm hoping? Plus, surely it's not a 100% white workforce, if there are a few black and Asian workers protesting as well then that's immediately workers who are excluded from joining or supporting a whites-only party.
You can understand their anger and frustration, but in the face of job losses in the industrial sector in the order of tens of thousands, they need to direct action at the real causes of the recession, instead of trying to scape-goat a few hundred Italian workers. Other countries in the EU will be watching all of this, and it could cause reciprocity and increase antagonism towards British workers abroad. How much longer before we see "Italian jobs for Italian workers" demos in Italy (and similar in other countries for that matter) and calls for "British workers to go home"?
snadge
metal alchemist
the slogan is racist and xenophobic when guys who fear being made unemployed say it, but okay when the PM says it seems.
British jobs for british workers words that will come back to haunt poor old gordy.but putting aside the rights and wrongs of this dispute of which i can see a lot of conflicting views .is this the start of an unrest against the downturn.You get things like honda shutting down for four months ,the workers must have in the back of their minds that perhaps the plant won't open again
just done a wee scan of some of tomorrows papers.
the Times are calling this the
Jon Cruddas is in the Guardian and has written quite an interesting piece imo, featuring fairly strong criticism of the government.
the Sun seem to be running some back to the 70s theme and Trevor Kavanagh is vague but ultimately against the strikes, and warning of the consequences of a return of union power.
the Independent's leader answers nothing, the main message is that "you can't do that its just protectionism with another name", and continues in an absurd manner to point out that the Grimsby unemployed can't "get on their bike" because there are no more jobs in Europe. apparently if there were, it would be reasonable to expect them to up sticks, leave their families and go and live on a boat in Trieste or Hamburg docks for a few years....
nothing up on the Mirror website yet, apart from this whitewash from arch-Brownite Kevin Maguire's blog:
finally, the Independent also says there's going to be a car park meeting tomorrow or Monday to discuss a walkout at Sellafield. at what point do these walk outs at places like that start to cause blackouts?
the Times are calling this the
Jon Cruddas is in the Guardian and has written quite an interesting piece imo, featuring fairly strong criticism of the government.
the Sun seem to be running some back to the 70s theme and Trevor Kavanagh is vague but ultimately against the strikes, and warning of the consequences of a return of union power.
the Independent's leader answers nothing, the main message is that "you can't do that its just protectionism with another name", and continues in an absurd manner to point out that the Grimsby unemployed can't "get on their bike" because there are no more jobs in Europe. apparently if there were, it would be reasonable to expect them to up sticks, leave their families and go and live on a boat in Trieste or Hamburg docks for a few years....
nothing up on the Mirror website yet, apart from this whitewash from arch-Brownite Kevin Maguire's blog:
finally, the Independent also says there's going to be a car park meeting tomorrow or Monday to discuss a walkout at Sellafield. at what point do these walk outs at places like that start to cause blackouts?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
sorry to go on, but...
no, its not. Constructive is actually proposing something useful not just going 'that's shit'. even when (as in this case) you are absolutely right that it is shit.
i also don't think it's a bad thing that the left didn't immediately pose up 'the line' on their websites. it's a sign that they had to thnk about the correct position to take, in what is clearly a strike based upon a number of contradictory attitudes. Who would want a kneejerk response, whether it be an unmitigated yea or nay?
That said, the SW article is shit. It's not true that the workers have blamed 'Italians or Poles or Portuguese workers', even though many of the slogans used haven't been ones that most of us would. Brown should be targetted for the use of that slogan, as he did so and was obviously lying and paying to the gallery when he did so. For a group just to slag off the strike as being racist (which SW dont quite do, but come close as damn it) just cuts them off from discussing the real issue, which is employing non-union labour on non-union terms. And that means that the soft racist attitudes which do seem to be their to some extent are going to go unchallenged, and could even come to the fore as the main focus of the strike.
Any activity the left take in response to this strike should be to ensure that it targets the gloabalised bosses rather then globalised workers.
no, its not. Constructive is actually proposing something useful not just going 'that's shit'. even when (as in this case) you are absolutely right that it is shit.
i also don't think it's a bad thing that the left didn't immediately pose up 'the line' on their websites. it's a sign that they had to thnk about the correct position to take, in what is clearly a strike based upon a number of contradictory attitudes. Who would want a kneejerk response, whether it be an unmitigated yea or nay?
That said, the SW article is shit. It's not true that the workers have blamed 'Italians or Poles or Portuguese workers', even though many of the slogans used haven't been ones that most of us would. Brown should be targetted for the use of that slogan, as he did so and was obviously lying and paying to the gallery when he did so. For a group just to slag off the strike as being racist (which SW dont quite do, but come close as damn it) just cuts them off from discussing the real issue, which is employing non-union labour on non-union terms. And that means that the soft racist attitudes which do seem to be their to some extent are going to go unchallenged, and could even come to the fore as the main focus of the strike.
Any activity the left take in response to this strike should be to ensure that it targets the gloabalised bosses rather then globalised workers.
Got to the end of page two. Has no-one thought of saying "defend our jobs, defend our rights, and if they are scabs, defend us against them, regardless of their nationality". Seems like it's an EU issue that put these workers in there (who also need the jobs) - anyone willing to admit to being pro-EU for workers rights? Thought not - despite the clamour on this website a few years ago.
(1) I think you're being a wimp. The strike is racist (no striker wants to repatriate necessarily, but it opens those ideas). But as someone who embraces the fundamental reasons the strike came about, you put yourself in the middle of the is AND why of the strike. And I would hope any left group would do that.
(2) The pious comments on what 'the left' might do reveal more about how wedded people who do little at all are to what people who do not much. It's a bit sad that criticisms are made online (and critiques are important) by people who have no intention of doing anything but commenting on the strike.
(3) The SWPs position is horrific. But they are joining the strike. And fair play to them for engaging (if they do).
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
mm, is it just me, or does that not actually make much sense?
The strike is for a number of varied and contradictory reasons, to simply call it 'racist' is to miss the point, even tho some of the slogans used veer strongly towards racism.
You have no idea what anyone on here might or might not do, so dont make lazy assumptions simply in order to justify your own position
Are they (SW) getting involved? Nothing in that article says they are doing. If they do I hope they do in a farm more nuanced way than is expressed in that article.
The strike is for a number of varied and contradictory reasons, to simply call it 'racist' is to miss the point, even tho some of the slogans used veer strongly towards racism.
You have no idea what anyone on here might or might not do, so dont make lazy assumptions simply in order to justify your own position
Are they (SW) getting involved? Nothing in that article says they are doing. If they do I hope they do in a farm more nuanced way than is expressed in that article.
Well the SWP have (apparently) sent a very significant number of their cadre - significantly depleted in recent years I grant you - to join said workers.
I will challenge your post. You start by saying it (my post) doesn't make sense then you respond to every point. I'm saying it's racist. I'm not saying there aren't very differing reasons for people joining it nor that it's for whatever reason. The same as a strike about working hours doesn't mean every person on the picket line is in favour of that slogan. So, I hope to satiate you, I think you'll agree the slogans from the workers are racist. And need to be challenged. The underlying issue needs to be challenged even more (and actually, supported).
I'm not justifying my lazy position. I'm as bad as all these people who are doing nothing too.
I've outlined my answer to 3. AFAIK. The Sparts were quickest up there.
I will challenge your post. You start by saying it (my post) doesn't make sense then you respond to every point. I'm saying it's racist. I'm not saying there aren't very differing reasons for people joining it nor that it's for whatever reason. The same as a strike about working hours doesn't mean every person on the picket line is in favour of that slogan. So, I hope to satiate you, I think you'll agree the slogans from the workers are racist. And need to be challenged. The underlying issue needs to be challenged even more (and actually, supported).
I'm not justifying my lazy position. I'm as bad as all these people who are doing nothing too.
I've outlined my answer to 3. AFAIK. The Sparts were quickest up there.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
sorry, i meant to delete that first line after i'd re-read your post a couple of times, and made sense of it. but it's gone 3am, and i'm somewhat inebriated and slightly lacking in cognitive abilities
[10 points to the first person to take advantage of the obvious cheap shot i've left myself open to there]
[10 points to the first person to take advantage of the obvious cheap shot i've left myself open to there]
For god sake... are you really surprised they are waving flags? Flags, banners, logos etc. are things people identify with. You may not like it but a lot of these folks probably do identify with their countries flag as they support sports etc. The flag represents them as a collective, just as a silly red flag represents some out of touch trots attitude to politics.
The slogans are not unsurprising either.
They are effectively saying, jobs for our community, the community that is ruled by the same set of laws, taxed by the same government, represented by the same government.
This is often expressed in geographical terms, that is how the common man on the street see's it. Of course the BNP will capatalise on this to push their racist policies. The primary reason for this, is because the logo, icons, flags and such like that many people associate with have been excluded from the left by liberal twats who see it fit to dictate to the working masses what is acceptible. Keep the red flag flying indeed.....
Rather then reclaim iconography and move it forward with the countries attitudes in a positive manner, it has been effectively bypassed even to the point of surpressed on the left, with the byproduce of letting the utter bastards of the BNP and their ilk claim it as their own.
Hence the black people in the crowd right, or did that pass you by?
Also the BNP I believe are all lovy dovey about "Kindred Europeans" or some similar bollocks in their round about way of saying "unless you are white and of European decent fuck off". This of course shows them to be the bullshit merchants they are, one day backing their fellow European brethen and the next sticking the knife in.. but I digress.
This has nothing to do with race, but everything to do with one set of people feeling threatened by a Neo-Liberal approach to business.
As a side point, I wonder if the Italians will be out there supporting the British workers eventually? Might stick a big stick in the wheels of the Total
.
It does seem to be worker against worker which is sad.Also isn't wildcat strikes and sympathy strikes illegal under thatchers laws.it will interesting to see how this progreses.there are many different groups taking out of it their own slant the papers and the bnp all putting over in a way that suits their agenda
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Cruddas makes some good points in that Guardian article. The issue with the Italian workers is a cause celebre, and not the real, substantive cause for protest or strike. They are being scape-goated for the failings of free market capitalism and corporate greed. The focus on the Italians though does come across as xenophobic. It is a form of protectionism, that could end up futile and counter-productive. If a nationalistic fervour for occupational protectionism runs amok throughout Europe, British workers could end up losing more jobs on the European continent than she gains over here.
As a Trot taken his identity then
Sorry it is me. Just becasue it I occaionally take contrarian position to others on the left , liek here, doesnt mean some hacker has nicked my identity or something- which post in particular do you mean?
Bugger, this defiantley isnt me!
So its not just me then who is worried about this strike
But won't the BNP will capitalise on this anti-foreign worker feeling? So isn't this playing into their hands?
I haven't dismissed them Dan. What I've said is that I'm worried that the unions are associating themselves with that message when they should be trying to redirect the focus of the anger. The workers have a right to be angry, but the people they're aiming that anger at are not the cause of the problem.
You know, this is why I don't post on many threads in this forum. Engage with me or don't. That's just a pathetic response.
treelover, that was in response to dlr's post saying that I needed to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the protestors.
What I was surprised about, as I stated clearly, is that they were holding up the union flags in amongst those hundreds of laminated cards saying "British Jobs for British People". That shows an implicit support for that message. My point is that I think the message that is coming out of the protests is xenaphobic, the anger is directed at the wrong people, and I am surprised and disappointed the unions are not trying to refocus the workers rightly felt anger in the right direction and at the right people.
strummerville
vinyl lover
The phrase "British jobs for British people" is a direct response to Gordon Browns use of it being thrown back at him. It's less to do with fear of foreigners and more to with the genuine fear of people losing or thinking they're about to lose work. Brown has alot to answer for using it in the first place.
The response of the British Left is dispiriting. You have a genuine working class response to something for the first time in years and they don't know how to respond. Their websites are still leading with student occupations of lecture hall in support of Gaza! All v worthy but terribly middle class and for the SWP to dismiss the walkouts with the sneering patronising tone of 'why do you think papers like the Sun are supporting it" is misguided to say the least.
The response of the British Left is dispiriting. You have a genuine working class response to something for the first time in years and they don't know how to respond. Their websites are still leading with student occupations of lecture hall in support of Gaza! All v worthy but terribly middle class and for the SWP to dismiss the walkouts with the sneering patronising tone of 'why do you think papers like the Sun are supporting it" is misguided to say the least.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
"and form a new party"
That really makes it sound geunuine doesn't it
That really makes it sound geunuine doesn't it
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