Hundreds of workers protest against Italians/Foreigners 'taking jobs'...

[durruti02]

It must be annoying to be part of the modern British left.

You bemoan the lack of unity amongst the working classes and then when they do show some of it, well its all a bit awkward.

LOL.

 

[snadge]

you wanna watch your tongue, you fucking twat.

i'm a welder, two of my uncles are welders, some of my cousins are welders. all of us have been on the dole and none of us ever went self employed.

i'm not jealous of your earnings and i don't think you should earn less. i don't think you should have sold yourselves so cheaply.

we didn't, we have fought for blue book pay WHEREVER and WHOEVER we work with.

Do you receive blue book rate, are you asme9 coded?

You do know on most contracts there is no other option except being self employed.

 

[purplex]

that the left think concentrating on temporaray migrnat workers at the expense of people who live work and will die here is insanity

They are entitled to work and live here, these are no more local jobs than the German construction jobs in the 1980s were German jobs. We exist in a European marketplace.

 

[treelover]

How about something constructive for once?

Its a very constructive point Belboid and no amount of ad homs will obscure it, people like Durrutti have been pointing out this deficit in the domestic arena for years. Its going to be very hard for the left to make sucessful interventions now and that is worrying.

 

[treelover]

They are entitled to work and live here, these are no more local jobs than the German construction jobs in the 1980s were German jobs. We exist in a European marketplace.

All hail the neo-liberal

 

[durruti02]

Why ?

Now apologies if I come accross as being a bit dumb but I get confused by the British left. If I read them rightly then they dont like globalisation ? Yet seem to be saying that this issue of British workers being denied jobs in this country is irrelevant because its all a wider global struggle ? A sort of socialst globalisation ?

Or have I the wrong end of the stick ?

Surely local jobs for local people is a fundamental demand for the anti-globalisation movement ?

^^ yes it SHOULD be .. think global act local .. you will not change fuck all unless you sort out where you live .. the swp type left have pretty well abandonned the w/c .. and this is the consequence

 

[durruti02]

They are entitled to work and live here, these are no more local jobs than the German construction jobs in the 1980s were German jobs. We exist in a European marketplace.

yes they are entitled . i have NO problem with migrants .. my issue is that IF you want a better world you will only get it by starting to do it where you live .. we have allowed the bosses for years to put people out of work while employing migrants on cheap labour .. with the resultant loss of union and w/c power and resultant cynicism and reaction in the w/c

 

[Fuchs66]

ye sthey are entitled . i have NO porblem with migrants .. my issue is that IF you want a better world you will onlty get it by starting to do it where you live .. we have allowed the bosses for years to put people out of work while employing migrants on cheap labour .. with the resultant loss of union and w/c power and resultant cynicism and reaction in the w/c

Its ok starting local, but it shouldn't stop there only EU wide coordination of unions can hope to be effective against exploitation.

 

[durruti02]

It seems to be spreading all over the place.

I thought the left here would be jumping up and down with joy now that the workers have gone out on strike against neo-liberalism

Personally, I'm quite sympathetic to their cause - bringing in 400 workers from Italy to do a job that local labour is quite capable of is going to stir serious resentment up.

Those on strike must have come to the conclusion (with ample justification) that they will be replaced tomorrow by labour that can be housed in barrack-style housing on a river

spot on

 

[durruti02]

Because if you stick with "local jobs with local people"one this will very easily be manipulated into "British jobs for British workers" and is an argument that plays into the hands of th right. who have no interest in taking the side of the worker.

Secondly its an argument where the solution is easy. Local workers work for competitive (lower) wages.

If we continue to frame the argument this way. We will lose.

no .. without talking about local jobs for local people you WILL end up with nationalism .. and this shows this .. the left have NO response to these issues but an irrelevent call for unity .. so the right take over


local people do NOT work for lower wages .. when you have local peopel employed you have unions when you have unions you have power and better wages and better politics

THIS is a lesson that has been forgotten by the left

 

[Divisive Cotton]

I've just watched the BBC news coverage of the dispute

"British jobs for British workers" don't you want to smack that fucker Gordon Brown in the face

 

[where to]

any more details about this march next week on parliament?

any link up with the G20 stuff:

http://www.youthfightforjobs.com/

 

[snadge]

They are entitled to work and live here, these are no more local jobs than the German construction jobs in the 1980s were German jobs. We exist in a European marketplace.

so WHY is there disparity in pay?

 

[durruti02]

Quite simply, the strikers are reactionary scumbags making racist demands, who i am quite content to be sacked ont he spot. Britsh jobs for british workers- yeah right

The biggest shame in the local unions which have pandered to racism rather than confronting it

This has the potential to be our Imperial Typewriters dispute, liek Leicester in 1974

http://bnp. org.uk/2009/01/grimsby-oil-refinery-workers-strike-over-influx-of-foreign-workers/

BNP already supporting the scum.

grow up .. you are totally out of touch, ignorent of peoples feelings etc etc i thought you had more sense jim

 

[discokermit]

Don't be so stupid - if you can't see that following the early 80s period of mass unemployment capital practically forced certain workers (from dying trad industries largely) into self-employment in order to bear most of the risks and costs of the less profitable areas of their business then you're living in the past. Automatically viewing the self-employed as being the enemy in 2008 is dinosaur bollocks.

were they fuck forced. if no one went along with it, it wouldn't have happened. i bet they were forced to buy their fucking council houses as well.

you're right, they aren't the enemy. but i work with three hungarians, six white british, three jamaicans, one portuguese, one indian/jamaican, one black zimbabwean and one mauritian. there has been some tension at work recently as the hungarians are very good and making some of the others look a bit shit. i've had to deal with a few arguments that have cropped up here (not as skilled, not as aware of health and safety, etc.) which have all been bullshit.

on another note, we've just got a contract in the south of france. french jobs for british workers?

 

[durruti02]

Look, if you failt to say, as the Uniosn shoudl be , that foreign workers are welcome here, to live and work, its a slippery slope to sacking foreign workers and replacing them with british ones. For Internationalists, a workers place of origin is irrelevant

These strikers, despite what they say, want British Jobs for British Workers- and that is a racist sentiment

why should workers welcome cheap foreign labour? this is nonsense .. unions shold oppose ANY cut in wages and particulalry in situations like this therare absolutely right to walk out

that people use the terms british is due to the absence of the left from working class communities for 20 and more years

 

[durruti02]

Why? Cant you get it that Racism and Nationalism are at the heart of the workers arguement here.

Pandering to these racist arguements in exactly the reason why the BNP got 27% in Newcastle last night

no you dope it is cos there is no left who will support ordinary people warts and all

 

[durruti02]

Post By Nick Griffin on this all on BNP website

"This grass-roots movement by British workers in defence of British workers has the potential to spread like wildfire. We need all BNP and Solidarity members and supporters working in refineries, power stations (the Truth Truck got a great reception from the thousands of workers streaming in to Sellafield in Cumbria this morning) and on construction sites generally to raise with their workmates the idea of sympathetic walkouts. Spread the word!

The combination of the news of industrial action against imported scab labour in East Lindsey, and the 300% surge in the BNP vote in Newcastle, will make Thursday 29th January a key date in the coming victory of our brand of moderate but uncompromising nationalism".

so why has SW not called for the same?? why was socwok not wokring in these communities years ago? why was sw not stopping this attack on the workers last summer when it was annoucnced??

 

[Talkie Toaster]

So the EU says that anyone from any part of the EU can work in any other part of the EU but not that they should be paid the same as local workers?

If not then that's shit for people who work in other countries as they can be exploited and shit for the local workers as they might lose their jobs both in the name of a few more quid profit.

Surely this needs to be amended? I'm surprised this isn't already legislated tbh, seems pretty obvious stuff.

 

[durruti02]

Its ok starting local, but it shouldn't stop there only EU wide coordination of unions can hope to be effective against exploitation.

yes 100%

 

[purplex]

so WHY is there disparity in pay?

Because communism never caught on

 

[chilango]

So your against British jobs for British workers then?
What is the opposite of that? And doesnt that play into the hands of the right who have no interest in taking the side of the worker?

People on the Left really need to get real when it comes to understanding the effects of economic migration.

Yeah. I'm against the demand and indeed the idea of British jobs for British workers.

It is, as I keep saying, falling into the trap of "divide and rule".

If we must bandy crass slogans around "workers of the world unite" is far more likely to lead to a victory here.

 

[chilango]

So the EU says that anyone from any part of the EU can work in any other part of the EU but not that they should be paid the same as local workers?

If not then that's shit for people who work in other countries as they can be exploited and shit for the local workers as they might lose their jobs both in the name of a few more quid profit.

Surely this needs to be amended? I'm surprised this isn't already legislated tbh, seems pretty obvious stuff.

I earn more than my colleagues who are employed locally in the same workplace.

That is wrong too.

 

[Fuchs66]

so WHY is there disparity in pay?

because British wages haven't been reduced enough yet

 

[snadge]

Because communism never caught on

don't be dense, the disparity in pay for a trade but then you knew that.

 

[snadge]

because British wages haven't been reduced enough yet

Do you think this is a good thing?

 

[Fuchs66]

Do you think this is a good thing?

I said it with tongue somewhat in cheek but tried to point out a danger of demanding parity, it can go both ways.

 

[Talkie Toaster]

I earn more than my colleagues who are employed locally in the same workplace.

That is wrong too.

Not for the same job though? As that's against the law.

http://www.worksmart.org.uk/rights/viewsubsection.php?sun=23

 

[snadge]

I said it with tongue somewhat in cheek but tried to point out a danger of demanding parity, it can go both ways.

It has already gone that way, that is what this action is about.

 

[TomPaine]

Indymedia seems to have nowt about it on their front page?
Is there any other articles someone can point me towards with a bit more info on whats happening on the ground?