How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[teqniq]

Things didn't have to be well covered up because they knew that no one with any power gave a flying fuck.

Well whilst I would to some extent agree it would seem that a fairly successful and sustained cover up has been carried out otherwise why are we only now really getting any details of what happened?

 

[DotCommunist]

Things didn't have to be well covered up because they knew that no one with any power gave a flying fuck.

thats the thing with conspiracy moony type things- they see a direct and orchestrated plot (by the jews) when actually it's as terrifyingly prosaic as an intersection of power, interests, 'needs' and simple process. What is done is done because that is what is done and we all carry on. Lord Shittington-Nob chairs an enquiry 50 years after the fact

 

[Wilf]

Well whilst I would to some extent agree it would seem that a fairly successful and sustained cover up has been carried out otherwise why are we only now really getting any details of what happened?

It's the almost banal, half assed nature of the cover-ups, send it to the police who ignore it, ask a civil servant to say they can't find the papers, maybe get somebody to whisper in Geoffrey Dickens ear. It's nothing too organised, little more than what a local council does if it gets a troublesome letter of complaint - same mechanisms at least, same lack of giving a shit for victims. Like many other scandals the bulk of this story has been rattling around for decades, it's little more than background noise for the elite. The Brittan dossier comes from an era when nobody seriously thought you could really overturn rank, vile crimes by the police or politicians (how long it took on the Birmingham 6, Guildford 4 - Hillsborough more so). For me, this only got close to having purchase partly because times have changed after the expenses saga, but even more so, Savile. There was a moment when it looked like Watson was going to say something, Philip Schofield trying to pressurise Cameron (but fucking things up). Then comes McAlpine and the twitterati and we're back to business as usual. Sorry, late night rant...

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I'm deeply concerned and angry that after 3 decades of no justice, the likelyhood is that this is being discussed high up as a "how can we news manage this?" rather than "How can we best and belatedly serve victims?"

 

[Wilf]

I'm deeply concerned and angry that after 3 decades of no justice, the likelyhood is that this is being discussed high up as a "how can we news manage this?" rather than "How can we best and belatedly serve victims?"

'The government is taking this seriously ......launched 3/4/5 separate inquiries... it is important that we don't comment.... allow the police to do their work.... these matters were thoroughly investigated by Lord ..... nothing can be gained from...... just fuck off'

 

[teqniq]

It's the almost banal, half assed nature of the cover-ups, send it to the police who ignore it, ask a civil servant to say they can't find the papers, maybe get somebody to whisper in Geoffrey Dickens ear. It's nothing too organised, little more than what a local council does if it gets a troublesome letter of complaint.

Yup the Douglas Adams strategy...

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Well we know that covering political arses and the rights of paedophiles were probably more important than those of mere victims 30 years ago. The Conservatives have a small timeframe now to demonstrate it is still not the case. If they fail, I genuinelly believe they should be overthrown. I know that's strong language, easy to say on a messageboard, and methodology is a very wide open issue, but it's not even just about victims but raw survival. If they let people fuck kids and fob us off about it then it's inevitable we're going to be metaphorically shafted in countless ways as well.

It's like the war crimes, all bets are off when they receive clear signals of what they can get away with

 

[scalyboy]

Conspiracy theories, from 9/11 to the moon landings, invariably attribute a level of competence to the baddies in question that unduly flatters them.

Unless secret state/intelligence/military/govt operatives are far more competent than their counerparts in everyday life, I tend to favour a cock-up model over a conspiracy model unless proved otherwise. Years of observing fantastically piss-poor management decisions at work have led me to this POV

 

[Barking_Mad]

Keith Vaz is a career politician with a background in law who chairs the parliamentary committee responsible for policing issues, yet who claimed not to understand that TSG are specialist riot-trained public order unit in the wake of the Tomlinson killing. He can't tell the difference between Patricia Gallan and Cressida Dick. He allowed Mark Kennedy to lie to his face in public, and to offer wildly contradictory evidence - in the same session! The man's a buffoon.

fuck vaz

Corrupt bastard.

 

[Barking_Mad]

My particular favourite, shall we say 'interesting' (but beautifully constructed) conspiracy that Childline and Crimewatch were simply fronts to weed out claims of wrongdoing by the elite and to make sure nothing came of them in the public eye.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Leon Brittan's private secretary - links with MI5?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Worth re-posting a couple of these maybe....

Customs seize video of child sex abuse and ex-minister

and this one

 

[Barking_Mad]

 

[Barking_Mad]

What is the Telegraph suggesting?

 

[Kaka Tim]

they put leon brittans pic right next to the article? interesting - I assume their lawyers greenlighted it.

 

[Barking_Mad]

they put leon brittans pic right next to the article? interesting - I assume their lawyers greenlighted it.

They've changed the image it's now this:

You can see it near the bottom of this page:

 

[ViolentPanda]

There is a bigger picture to this. I recently finished reading Who Framed Colin Wallace by Paul Foot. Towards the end is a quote from the foreword to Lobster Magazine Summer 1986 by Kevin McNamara MP:



Kincora is a case in point.

And that is before considering an wider picture of similar scandals across Europe, such as Dutroux in Belgium and the links it has to the intelligence community, extreme right terrorism (De Bende van Nijvel) and so on. Almost every country in Europe has had similar scandals.

I believe now that these many (but not all) of these scandals are not isolated incidents but are part of a larger fabric.

I am really hesitant about suggesting this. I want to say that I have been extremely cautious in the research I have been carrying out about much of this.

I was a Lobster subscriber from issue 3 till the last paper issue (56 IIRC), and have read most of what's gone into print about/by Wallace and Holroyd.
Lobster did, IIRC, feature an analysis of intelligence and military links to the Belgian paedo scene, and the complicity of elements of them in a series of robberies of banks and supermarkets that were given a high media profile during the Dutroux crisis.

Are we looking at part of a larger tapestry of Euro-noncery? I don't know. Is it possible that the larger tapestry exists/has existed? It's eminently possible.

 

[nino_savatte]

William Clark, one of Lobster's contributors can be found here at Pink Industry.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Keith Vaz is a career politician with a background in law who chairs the parliamentary committee responsible for policing issues, yet who claimed not to understand that TSG are specialist riot-trained public order unit in the wake of the Tomlinson killing. He can't tell the difference between Patricia Gallan and Cressida Dick. He allowed Mark Kennedy to lie to his face in public, and to offer wildly contradictory evidence - in the same session! The man's a buffoon.

Buffoon, or Establishment goon who'll happily derail stuff his masters (i.e. the people who'll decide whether he becomes Lord Vaz) want him to?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I was a Lobster subscriber from issue 3 till the last paper issue (56 IIRC), and have read most of what's gone into print about/by Wallace and Holroyd.
Lobster did, IIRC, feature an analysis of intelligence and military links to the Belgian paedo scene, and the complicity of elements of them in a series of robberies of banks and supermarkets that were given a high media profile during the Dutroux crisis.

Are we looking at part of a larger tapestry of Euro-noncery? I don't know. Is it possible that the larger tapestry exists/has existed? It's eminently possible.

I think if we're talking about spooks, Gladio (or whatever it was called in all the other countries where it provided a fertile source of criminality and neo-fascist killers and fruitcakes) and all that far-right underground stuff, we're probably talking about a high concentration of sociopaths.

So it's not really a huge surprise if these people don't see anything wrong with raping little kids.

 

[Wilf]

What is the Telegraph suggesting?

I saw Loughton on Newsnight a day or two ago. Was a bit weird listening to one of the usual parliamentary windbags droning on, but theoretically raising the issue of naming and shaming. Merely from looking at his wiki, he seems to be another family values ant-same sex weddings feller. Superficial parallel with Dickens. He's also had issues with the police. Is he about to go 'off grid'? Wild - and ill informed - speculation on my part, but I wondered why he has popped up over this? Sounds like something more than simply continuity with the job he used to do (children's minister).

edit: having a quick trawl shows he's had a few run ins with his bosses over the last 2 years. Awkward squad, off message, wants to make a name for himself, fuck, might even be genuine (though he presumably did nothing as a minister - and he's only threatening to name and shame now).

 

[quiquaquo]

I think if we're talking about spooks, Gladio (or whatever it was called in all the other countries where it provided a fertile source of criminality and neo-fascist killers and fruitcakes) and all that far-right underground stuff, we're probably talking about a high concentration of sociopaths.

So it's not really a huge surprise if these people don't see anything wrong with raping little kids.

Fully agree. Like Italy at the time the intelligence services are complicit and rotten to the core and politicians, media moguls, journalists and the military are in there too.

Evil fuckers the lot of them. What's the name of the British P2 Lodge equivalent?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Fully agree. Like Italy at the time the intelligence services are complicit and rotten to the core and politicians, media moguls, journalists and the military are in there too.

Evil fuckers the lot of them. What's the name of the British P2 Lodge equivalent?

I don't think there's a clear-cut equivalent, but rather a bunch of different groupings.

See e.g. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/aitken-dropped-by-the-rights-secret-club-1258522.html for one example ...

 

[existentialist]

Fully agree. Like Italy at the time the intelligence services are complicit and rotten to the core and politicians, media moguls, journalists and the military are in there too.

Evil fuckers the lot of them. What's the name of the British P2 Lodge equivalent?

That would probably depend on your view of mainstream British freemasonry. P2 was an "irregular" lodge in an unrecognised branch of Italian (quasi-)Freemasonry.

There are many, not least on here, who would argue that mainstream freemasonry in the UK is equally venal, "irregular", and given to criminal activities, up to and including murder.

 

[DotCommunist]

but mainly they just stitchup the local trades in the provinces to freeze out any honest man and hold meat raffles and do charidee stuff that works out as a tax write off.

 

[existentialist]

but mainly they just stitchup the local trades in the provinces to freeze out any honest man and hold meat raffles and do charidee stuff that works out as a tax write off.

Are we still talking about Freemasons, or is this paedophiles? I lose track...

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Any sort of network of privilege is potential cover for well-connected child rapists.

Edited to add: of course that doesn't mean that all of them are.

 

[quiquaquo]

I don't think there's a clear-cut equivalent, but rather a bunch of different groupings.

See e.g. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/aitken-dropped-by-the-rights-secret-club-1258522.html for one example ...

Thanks for the link. I remember back in the early seventies there were various reports in Italian newspapers about a far right coup plot in the UK. At the time coup paranoia was rife what with what we now know was Gladio and then thought was merely rogue Intelligence Services and a few Generals.

Is the UK less corrupt than Italy? I don't think so, it's just that posh people give it a patina of respectability but it's the same old shit.

 

[DotCommunist]

the generals plot. They were actually planning a coup if Benn got in, a mildly social democratic left labour man but to them the re-incarnation of vladmir illich

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Is the UK less corrupt than Italy? I don't think so, it's just that posh people give it a patina of respectability but it's the same old shit.

Not sure about Italy, but there's a general delusion that we aren't corrupt "like other countries" that actually smacks of racism. This place is riddled with corruption. It's not so much a government as an open cesspit.