How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[taffboy gwyrdd]

There's nothing new where Machiavellianism is concerned: it's all been done before. And it'll all be done again

Perhaps youre

Crowley wasn't a Satanist.



Satanism in the US comes under two main groupings: Temple of Set and Anton Lavey's various outfits. Neither of them are actually Satanist (i.e. they're not Christians blaspheming by desecrating the ritual and practice of Christianity), they're hedonists who aren't morally-responsible enough to take responsibility for their life choices, so they file their swinging and group sex under "religion".



There's no such thing as "mainstream Satanism" in the UK, and the few Satanic covens etc that there are, you'd never hear about, simply because they police their practices very carefully. The "Satanists" you hear about are the bedbugs/lunatic fringe - the robe-wearing "look at me" types, not the actual believers.

Yeah, I know Crowley wasn't a Satanist, though I don't think it would just take an orthodox Christain to say he was in the grip of satanic influence. But that bit was written badly and apologies- I was talking about documented stuff I knew regarding child abuse.

Rex Church as head of Church Of Satan seemed to be trying to be quite respectable. I agree, there's a lot of cross over with arch-hedonism,

Otherwise I entirely agree with that post. Thanks.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

It's dung.

Are you decrying all his bona fides and stated experience? You think the entire thing is start-to-finish concoction?

 

[existentialist]

Are you decrying all his bona fides and stated experience? You think the entire thing is start-to-finish concoction?

It doesn't really have to be. If it's got concoction in it to any degree, it's already a more or less tainted source.

And if it's on whale.to, then the omens aren't propitious to start with.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you decrying all his bona fides and stated experience? You think the entire thing is start-to-finish concoction?

I think that the piece is of its' time, and of the psychotherapeutic trends of the time, and that those trends and attitudes have been shown to be invalid, specious and actively harmful to patients.

 

[scalyboy]

Are you decrying all his bona fides and stated experience? You think the entire thing is start-to-finish concoction?

I've met a few PhD holders and academics who are meshugah...holding academic credentials doesn't necessarily mean you're not a mentalist

 

[DaveCinzano]

...Hilda Murrell...

Just to needlessly confuse things - I'm on my tea break and my head's fried - one of the private detective agencies spying on the Sizewell B protesters (including Miss Murrell) was Zeus, which was set up by no less than Jimmy Goldsmith, and run by one Major Peter Hamilton. His extensive military-intelligence CV includes writing the British Army's anti-Mau Mau handbook and close involvement in establishing the right wing private armies Unison and Civil Assistance.

It would be interesting to see a detailed analysis of this strand juxtaposed with one of the Tara/Kincora issue. Certainly the Colin Wallace/Fred Holroyd material bridges between the Wilson plot/private armies/‘rogue MI5 officers’ stuff on the mainland, and the securocrats/paramilitaries stuff in Northern Ireland. Anyone suggest some substantial reading on this?

(Caveat: I'm not making claims that “EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED IN ONE BIG PAEDOPOCALYPTIC CONSPIRACY”, just interested in how so much of this stuff was happening in parallel, involving many of the same bodies in one way or another.)

 

[Wilf]

Just to needlessly confuse things - I'm on my tea break and my head's fried - one of the private detective agencies spying on the Sizewell B protesters (including Miss Murrell) was Zeus, which was set up by no less than Jimmy Goldsmith, and run by one Major Peter Hamilton. His extensive military-intelligence CV includes writing the British Army's anti-Mau Mau handbook and close involvement in establishing the right wing private armies Unison and Civil Assistance.

It would be interesting to see a detailed analysis of this strand juxtaposed with one of the Tara/Kincora issue. Certainly the Colin Wallace/Fred Holroyd material bridges between the Wilson plot/private armies/‘rogue MI5 officers’ stuff on the mainland, and the securocrats/paramilitaries stuff in Northern Ireland. Anyone suggest some substantial reading on this?

(Caveat: I'm not making claims that “EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED IN ONE BIG PAEDOPOCALYPTIC CONSPIRACY”, just interested in how so much of this stuff was happening in parallel, involving many of the same bodies in one way or another.)

Ironically, Zac Goldsmith was one of the MPs calling for an overarching inquiry yesterday.

You put it better, but my (mistimed) comment about nonce family trees kind of had this stuff in mind. It isn't so much that powerful abusers are connected (well, it is...), it's that there are connections there anyway. They aren't lizardy, just the old fashioned structures of power.

 

[Sprocket.]

Just to needlessly confuse things - I'm on my tea break and my head's fried - one of the private detective agencies spying on the Sizewell B protesters (including Miss Murrell) was Zeus, which was set up by no less than Jimmy Goldsmith, and run by one Major Peter Hamilton. His extensive military-intelligence CV includes writing the British Army's anti-Mau Mau handbook and close involvement in establishing the right wing private armies Unison and Civil Assistance.

It would be interesting to see a detailed analysis of this strand juxtaposed with one of the Tara/Kincora issue. Certainly the Colin Wallace/Fred Holroyd material bridges between the Wilson plot/private armies/‘rogue MI5 officers’ stuff on the mainland, and the securocrats/paramilitaries stuff in Northern Ireland. Anyone suggest some substantial reading on this?

(Caveat: I'm not making claims that “EVERYTHING IS CONNECTED IN ONE BIG PAEDOPOCALYPTIC CONSPIRACY”, just interested in how so much of this stuff was happening in parallel, involving many of the same bodies in one way or another.)

It has been alleged on C4 news years back that her alleged murderer was a neo nazi working for a private security firm, he has a long record of violent sex attacks against children. Michael Mansfield QC asked for another government enquiry in 2012.

 

[DaveCinzano]

It has been alleged on C4 news years back that her alleged murderer was a neo nazi working for a private security firm...

Certainly David Copeland mentor David Myatt (a Column 88 alumnus, Combat 18/political soldier ideologue, poet and latter-day Muslim revert) was long associated with the Murrell case, but I take it that's not who we're talking about? I don't remember any nonce stuff?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

That reads as nutty to me

He seems to think Crowley was a satanist and Dion Fortune a bloke. He's recycling Ed Sanders and Maury Terry's fairy stories about the Process.

He's pushing theories about MDP originating from abuse which are widely questioned but which were central to the whole satanic panic mess. He's citing stuff that he says came out in therapy as evidence.

Reads like satanic panic horseshit to me.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

He seems to think Crowley was a satanist and Dion Fortune a bloke. He's recycling Ed Sanders and Maury Terry's fairy stories about the Process.

He's pushing theories about MDP originating from abuse which are widely questioned but which were central to the whole satanic panic mess. He's citing stuff that he says came out in therapy as evidence.

Reads like satanic panic horseshit to me.

Im not too sure what's "satanic panic" about "From what I can tell, Satanism is an incredibly tiny pursuit in the UK" but at least "Satanic" and "panic" rhyme, which gives the phrase inate creibility.

I was responding to a question raised by someone else with a bunch of strung together thoughts. Certainly the stuff about Crowley could have been better phrased because it looks like I associate him with Satanism, which I don't. I was citing his stuff about ritual sacrifice. Anyhow, if people don't take the Greenbaum stuff seriously, that's fine. At this point I don't think the avenue of Satanism is that fruitful a one in the context of the OP or where the country is at. There's nothing about stuff like Bryn Estyn or Elm Guesthouse that seem to raise the issue. The main thing for me at the mo would be keeping up pressure on the what, where, how, who and why of the missing dossier. Will this country stand for such obvious cover-up?

 

[elbows]

Just as an aside, yesterday was another spike of interest in this story, with Brittan's twisting in the breeze plain for all to see. However it didn't feel like a staging post towards prosections - ditto the MPs calling for an overall inquiry. Quite the opposite, it was little more than an illustration that there won't be prosecutions, unless some other document emerges which puts some lower level player in the frame (elbows point last night).

Absurd to judge the story just 24 hours on, but it also doesn't seem to have much traction today. Already slipped down the guardian's front page. Also, Tom Watson seems to have left the field on this one. Don't know that he was ever going to use parliamentary privelige to say anything or if he just hasn't got anything robust enough.

I would see recent events a sign of frustration at a lack of arrests or prosecutions so far, rather than a direct indication that we are moving closer or further from such stuff.

At this stage if I were them, I'd be using the threat of using parliamentary privilege, rather than actually doing it just now.

I remain of the opinion that if the establishment know whats good for them and want to engage in the usual 'line drawing and moving on', they could really do with at least one prosecution taking place. Without such a thing happening, people will see all sorts of coverups regardless of what level of coverup is actually taking place.

 

[Dillinger4]

No, you use the dirt to manipulate the politician into supporting MI5's interests.

There is a bigger picture to this. I recently finished reading Who Framed Colin Wallace by Paul Foot. Towards the end is a quote from the foreword to Lobster Magazine Summer 1986 by Kevin McNamara MP:

Brutally summarised, our thesis is this. Mrs Thatcher and Thatcherism grew out of a right wing network in this country with extensive links to the military-intelligence establishment. Her rise to power was the climax of a long campaign of by this network which included a protracted nationalisation campaign against the Labour and Liberal parties - chiefly the Labour party - during 1974 - 1976.

Kincora is a case in point.

And that is before considering an wider picture of similar scandals across Europe, such as Dutroux in Belgium and the links it has to the intelligence community, extreme right terrorism (De Bende van Nijvel) and so on. Almost every country in Europe has had similar scandals.

I believe now that these many (but not all) of these scandals are not isolated incidents but are part of a larger fabric.

I am really hesitant about suggesting this. I want to say that I have been extremely cautious in the research I have been carrying out about much of this.

 

[quiquaquo]

This post is from justthetalk.com:

Don't trust NTT/JTT, dodgy as fuck site full of crazed US zionists, liberal democrats and worse.

You are not one of them, don't waste your time with them.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Don't trust NTT/JTT, dodgy as fuck site full of crazed US zionists, liberal democrats and worse.

There's not THAT many zionists. The fore-runner Graun site was "invaded" by Free Republic loons in the wake of 911. There's not that many LDs either. It's generally centre left but with a decent and balanced mix going either direction. It's certainly more right wing than here, I wouldnt deny that.

 

[quiquaquo]

There's not THAT many zionists. The fore-runner Graun site was "invaded" by Free Republic loons in the wake of 911. There's not that many LDs either. It's generally centre left but with a decent and balanced mix going either direction. It's certainly more right wing than here, I wouldnt deny that.

GUT was excellent compared the cesspit NTT has become. Unlike here the anonymous moderators' agenda is just weird. Incestuous, right wing and self congratulatory bollocks, don't lower yourself to their standards, GF.

 

[quiquaquo]

Takes about 1600 words to get to the Jews. It's all Cabalistic of course.

It's not anyone's fault what LB's ethnicity is. That's what it is, we can't change it.

 

[scalyboy]

It's not anyone's fault what LB's ethnicity is. That's what it is, we can't change it.

I think it was the mention of Cabala that raised some people's hackles - itr certainly did mine

 

[happie chappie]

Absurd to judge the story just 24 hours on, but it also doesn't seem to have much traction today. Already slipped down the guardian's front page.QUOTE]

 

[happie chappie]

Ignore my previous post above - still not got the hang of the Quote function!

Back up the news agenda tonight. Sky news carried interview with Dickens' son calling for a proper inquiry. Ditto Nick Clegg.

Sky also reporting Home Affairs Select Committee has called a senior Home Office civil servant to give evidence about the dossiers. It showed the letter and the list of questions he's to be asked although I wasn't quick enough to catch them all.

Sadly, it doesn't seem to be calling Brittan to give evidence.

Would have been interesting if it had - although perhaps more in an entertaining watch-him-hang-in-the-wind way than shedding any further light on the contents/whereabouts of the dossiers. (According to Newsnight last night there were actually two separate dossiers).

But Brittan's still not off the hook yet.

 

[nogojones]

If you're in MI5 and you find out that establishment figures are up to their neck in criminal activites, what do you actually do about it?

Sit on it to ensure the figure stays on your message

 

[laptop]

If you're in MI5 and you find out that establishment figures are up to their neck in criminal activites, what do you actually do about it?

Priority 1 is to stop MI6 getting a hint of it, in case they can use it to do down you and your fellow peasants.

 

[Sprocket.]

Certainly David Copeland mentor David Myatt (a Column 88 alumnus, Combat 18/political soldier ideologue, poet and latter-day Muslim revert) was long associated with the Murrell case, but I take it that's not who we're talking about? I don't remember any nonce stuff?

Don't know the name, just the allegation made in the C4 report that is on YouTube under Hilda Murrell, I cannot post link because I am presently inside the belly of the beast!

 

[Wilf]

I remain of the opinion that if the establishment know whats good for them and want to engage in the usual 'line drawing and moving on', they could really do with at least one prosecution taking place. Without such a thing happening, people will see all sorts of coverups regardless of what level of coverup is actually taking place.

I can see the logic of that, but it's also a very dangerous strategy in terms of containment. Why non-politician nonce x gets prosecuted whilst politician nonce doesn't, what will come out in court, what will emerge in terms of previous non-enquiries - all highly problematic.

The whole thing brings the British State and elite into the foreground, but also that conspiracists are wrong to see the elite as monolithic or having perfect control. Same time, I hope to fuck somebody does end up in the dock, just to give something to the poor sods who have suffered so long.

 

[Favelado]

The whole thing brings the British State and elite into the foreground, but also that conspiracists are wrong to see the elite as monolithic or having perfect control.

Conspiracy theories, from 9/11 to the moon landings, invariably attribute a level of competence to the baddies in question that unduly flatters them.

 

[teqniq]

Conspiracy theories, from 9/11 to the moon landings, invariably attribute a level of competence to the baddies in question that unduly flatters them.

Broadly speaking I would agree with you. However in this instance really bad stuff has been fairly effectively covered up for a very long time. Saville and Smith are, unfortunately beyond the reach of the long arm of the law. Indeed it would seem they (the security services) may well have had a part to play in this being the case.

 

[DotCommunist]

Keith Vaz says there is "No reason" to ask Brittan to give evidence re: missing paedophile documents.

fuck vaz

 

[Favelado]

Broadly speaking I would agree with you. However in this instance really bad stuff has been fairly effectively covered up for a very long time. Saville and Smith are, unfortunately beyond the reach of the long arm of the law. Indeed it would seem they may well have had a part to play in this being the case.

I agree with that and would not for one minute suggest they weren't capable of a cover up. You only need to follow Hillsborough to know what the establishment is capable of. I meant rather that conspiracy theorists tend to see everything as perfectly planned in advance by Machiavellian geniuses, rather than the mundane truth of them closing ranks and threatening people as they go along.

 

[Wilf]

Things didn't have to be well covered up because they knew that no one with any power gave a flying fuck.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Keith Vaz is a career politician with a background in law who chairs the parliamentary committee responsible for policing issues, yet in the wake of the Tomlinson killing he claimed not to understand that TSG is a specialist riot-trained public order unit. He can't tell the difference between Patricia Gallan and Cressida Dick. He allowed Mark Kennedy to lie to his face in public, and to offer wildly contradictory evidence - in the same session! The man's a buffoon.