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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

Found a bit about its formation:

  1. The final report of the Aves Commission, published in 1969, recommended the establishment of a new national, independent membership organisation or ‘Volunteer Foundation’. The report called for any such organisation to be funded by a‘generous initial grant from public funds’.3 In this the Commission found themselves in tune with Ted Heath’s government, elected in June 1970, which was keen to support the development of infrastructure to help voluntary bodies operate more effectively. For example Lord Windlesham, Minister of State at the Home Office, was given responsibility for ‘co-ordinating the Government’s interests in the field of voluntary social services’ and a Voluntary Services Unit formed.
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    (taken from http://lib-161.lse.ac.uk/archives/digital/Volunteering_England.pdf )
 
Exaro have recently run several stories that have not been promising regarding the Elm Guest House / Fernbridge stuff.

eg: http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5154/operation-fernbridge-releases-elm-co-manager-without-charge

Harry Kasir not facing any charges presently, and some of the charges against Stingemore and McSweeney.

But I note that a tweet holds the promise of something more positive later tonight:

Mark Watts @MarkWatts_1
Setbacks and breakthroughs re Ops #Fernbridge and #Fairbank. On@exaronews late tonight, a major breakthrough. exaronews.com
Click to expand...
 
Here we are:

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5...unit-seizes-video-of-ex-minister-at-sex-party

The police have video of a former tory minister at a sex party. A party where a victim the police are in contact with was present. Other parties where there is also photo evidence of the same victim being present were possibly organised by Sidney Cooke. The ex-minister confirmed he was at the one party for which there is video evidence and 'knew of' the victim but denied any sexual abuse claims.

The video etc evidence was obtained as part of Operation Fairbank but Exaro sources think this strand will spin off into its own enquiry in the new year.
 
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The Mirror version of the story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-tory-cabinet-minister-caught-2903907

Details and careful wording pretty much identical to the Exaro piece. They just dwell on the Cooke connection a little more near the end:

Detectives believe that some of the sex parties – some of which are believed to have been attended by paedophiles Jimmy Savile and MP Cyril Smith – were organised by Britain’s most notorious child abuser, Sidney Cooke, as we revealed in February.

Cooke led the ring of four jailed for killing Jason Swift in Hackney, East London, after gang-raping him in 1984.

The alleged victim claims he was trafficked, along with other children, to Holland by Cooke’s gang.

Scotland Yard’s paedophile unit has been working with Dutch police, and an officer from Amsterdam attended an interview by Met detectives with the key witness.

The Sunday Mirror told in February how the minister had been photographed by police in 1986 entering a property where one of the sex parties was being held, but no arrests were made.

Cooke, now 86, would pick up the unsuspecting teenage boys from streets around Kings Cross. He would drive them to places across North London where paedophiles lay in wait to rape them repeatedly.

A former officer, who worked on Operation Orchid which convicted Cooke and his gang, claimed they had taken pictures of the minister and that 16 members of an alleged VIP paedophile ring were due to be arrested.

But the day before the arrests were to be carried out, detectives were told the operation had been disbanded.
Click to expand...
 
elbows said:
I reckon it was probably the 'voluntary services unit' which has more references to it on the internet, although may well have been rebranded since.

e.g. the following which don't contain directly related info but do suggest the existence of such a unit:

1979: The National Association of Victims Support Schemes was created as an ‘umbrella body’ for the local schemes. Funding comes from private trusts and the Home Office's Voluntary Services Unit.

(from http://www.victimsupport.org.uk/about-us/history-and-achievements/key-events-and-achievements )

Drafting documents within Voluntary Services Unit, Home Office for written parliamentary question from David Alton MP

(from http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/HOM000003480001.html )
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Mail confirms it was the VSU - investigation started apparently.
 
I've seen that kind of thing thrown around at the likes of Needle and Exaro for some time, no need to bring white supremacists into it really, though they love to hijack the issue generally.
 
The article doesn't say much that hasn't been said in this thread over the year+, with the main difference that we don't name names or get too carried away with the dot joining.

Personally I reserve judgement until we see whether anything ends up going through the justice system. Attitudes at the time, how long ago it was, the nature of some of the evidence and the potential range of activities at the guest-house that did not involve underage victims are all complicating factors. Methods and motives of intelligence services doesn't help, especially in some specific instances, and further reduces the chance of getting to the whole story.

In my book nothing has come out which really justifies the over-simplistic narratives that have so easily been spun and repeated in so many places on the internet. Very much including by those who have agendas which favour sweeping generalisations targeting a specific group, which depending on the site in question has at times included gays, jews, politicians etc.

Even if every case people have speculated about on the internet somehow gets proven and dealt with, which is very unlikely to happen, the sheer scale of offending and number of famous or powerful people implicated is not enough for me to justify the sloppiest narratives that get bandied around. Real victims have been failed in so many ways, things have been brushed under the carpet, etc. But I don't see anything that can't be explained by attitudes at the time combined with the usual human factors along the lines of networking, institutions and their weaknesses, and power in its broadest sense. i.e. the sort of power that even 'normal' people can find they have over other specific people in a particular circumstance. Obviously the potential for abuse and subsequent coverup is worse when institutions are involved, such is the nature of institutions, especially before decades of scandals made people aware of the shortcomings of such things and attempts (sometimes feeble, sometimes not) to get to the bottom of things/remove institutional blindspots.
 
Thanks - sounds a reasonable viewpoint. I didn't think Kerry-anne Mendoza (author of that blog) would have gone into full on conspiraloon mode (she has built a decent following among people who want openly leftist journalism and she wouldn't want to blow that I think) but at the same time I could see some logical leaps were being made.
 
Well one of the problems is that the 'evidence' that ended up on the internet in this case is really just a worthy starting point for fresh investigation. For example I'm pretty sure even Chris Faye from NAYPIC would caution strongly against using a certain list of names to draw conclusions instead of as a starting point.

Another problem which easily leads to certain blogs etc being labelled as conspiracy theorists in their approach to this subject, is the history of writings and conspiracy theories around this subject. There was an existing template for sloppy writing & conclusion drawing about this kind of abuse involving politicians, with varying degrees of actual fact involved. Some of them were based on clear cases of abuse & coverup, but others were mostly sponsored by a desire to lump all the powerful offenders together in some other way (party affiliation, sexual orientation, whether they were jewish or a member of the new world order or whatever).

Certainly back in the day on this thread and other related ones, those of us who were interested enough to attempt some of our own basic internet research had rather mixed results. There were signs of some people getting away with bad shit. Of ranks closing, of intimidation, and of networks of abuse only being partially dealt with. And I don't think there was anything wrong with tentatively joining some dots, but in pencil not permanent marker.

But the problems were numerous. Psychologically damaged victims sometimes struggling with the quality of their own evidence. Attitudes and laws regarding homosexuality in the past. A historical tory gay closet that has been described (I forget by whom) as having been the largest in Europe some decades ago. And not just the potential of the security services to cover-up or otherwise make use of abuse committed by persons of interest, but also to create smear stories, sometimes carried in the fringe press but sometimes countered by them, suggesting specific rumours of the day were really unfair smears done for other political reasons.

And there is certainly an appetite to find some powerful guilty people. I don't know if any of the inquiries about abuse at various institutions will manage this, partly because its really unclear how many 'noteworthy' perpetrators were involved, as opposed to those who were in more local positions of power. And the couple of dead MPs implicated isn't enough. At least one really high-profile case involving a politician needs to be brought through the justice system with an outcome that will get the press to dwell on it and tell more of the story about the case in question. Thats a bare minimum really to even begin to satisfy all of the people who have been let down in the past and are very cynical about the prospects of anything being different this time.

In terms of what the various inquiries (as opposed to police investigations) may achieve, I suppose it may be the politicians and the police who get forced into greater reform of the way they handle this stuff as a result of inquiry recommendations. Because a lot of the stuff about other institutions failings that we would normally expect such inquiry reports to dwell on in tedious detail, have already been done or are obsolete. We've already had decades of awareness that large institutions were a bad place to put vulnerable people including the young, which actually got acted on in part because it coincided with changed government economic agendas that favoured or demanded the gutting of many public institutions.
 
How do the blogs that name living names get away with it? At least one name on that recently posted link has - i am sure - access to very expensive lawyers (not saying it for obvious reasons)

I don't want to say I enjoy this thread as that is the wrong word but I appreciate the persistence of elbows and others
 
.
[quote="Dan U, post: 12787360, member: 24336"
I don't want to say I enjoy this thread as that is the wrong word but I appreciate the persistence of elbows and others[/quote]

Persistence and analysis and everything. Thanks elbows.
 
How do the blogs that name living names get away with it? At least one name on that recently posted link has - i am sure - access to very expensive lawyers (not saying it for obvious reasons)

I don't want to say I enjoy this thread as that is the wrong word but I appreciate the persistence of elbows and others
Click to expand...

I expect obscurity is one of their main shields against legal action. People either don't know about them, don't want to draw attention to them by going after them, or don't want them to start going on about how the legal action is an attempt at intimidation and burying the truth. And since much of the info is repeated on so many of these obscure blogs, and some of them are probably overseas, it would be hard to put the genie back in the bottle anyway.

Twitter storms are a fine example of some of the above. We can have bizarre periods where lots of people are talking about a story, the detail of which the uk press will not run with at that moment in time. Sometimes the gap is closed when the buzz about the story reaches critical mass, or some legal milestone happen to be passed, but other times nothing happens, and the gap between what is acknowledged on parts of the net and that in the mainstream press remains wide and somewhat ludicrous.

Anyway the internet certainly exposes the gap between what people say casually and how things are 'allowed to be said' in the eyes of the law etc. It gets a bit messy sometimes, including when we are talking about blog-posts that we probably wouldn't repeat ourselves in writing.

Thanks for the kind words about my posts. Not very much new thats really worth all these words of mine has happened fro some time, but I tend to stick with a subject for the long-haul so I won't leave this one alone for a few more years yet.
 
1%er said:
I haven't seen a link to these documents on this thread (I may well have missed it)

Mary Moss papers

Mary Moss was the development officer for London "national association for young people in care", these documents appear to have been posted shortly after her house was raided, "after she refused to cooperate with police".
Click to expand...

Without wishing to comment in a way that repeats anything potentially libellous, then can i just say fucking hell.
 
elbows said:
Well one of the problems is that the 'evidence' that ended up on the internet in this case is really just a worthy starting point for fresh investigation. For example I'm pretty sure even Chris Faye from NAYPIC would caution strongly against using a certain list of names to draw conclusions instead of as a starting point.

Another problem which easily leads to certain blogs etc being labelled as conspiracy theorists in their approach to this subject, is the history of writings and conspiracy theories around this subject. There was an existing template for sloppy writing & conclusion drawing about this kind of abuse involving politicians, with varying degrees of actual fact involved. Some of them were based on clear cases of abuse & coverup, but others were mostly sponsored by a desire to lump all the powerful offenders together in some other way (party affiliation, sexual orientation, whether they were jewish or a member of the new world order or whatever).

Certainly back in the day on this thread and other related ones, those of us who were interested enough to attempt some of our own basic internet research had rather mixed results. There were signs of some people getting away with bad shit. Of ranks closing, of intimidation, and of networks of abuse only being partially dealt with. And I don't think there was anything wrong with tentatively joining some dots, but in pencil not permanent marker.

But the problems were numerous. Psychologically damaged victims sometimes struggling with the quality of their own evidence. Attitudes and laws regarding homosexuality in the past. A historical tory gay closet that has been described (I forget by whom) as having been the largest in Europe some decades ago. And not just the potential of the security services to cover-up or otherwise make use of abuse committed by persons of interest, but also to create smear stories, sometimes carried in the fringe press but sometimes countered by them, suggesting specific rumours of the day were really unfair smears done for other political reasons.

And there is certainly an appetite to find some powerful guilty people. I don't know if any of the inquiries about abuse at various institutions will manage this, partly because its really unclear how many 'noteworthy' perpetrators were involved, as opposed to those who were in more local positions of power. And the couple of dead MPs implicated isn't enough. At least one really high-profile case involving a politician needs to be brought through the justice system with an outcome that will get the press to dwell on it and tell more of the story about the case in question. Thats a bare minimum really to even begin to satisfy all of the people who have been let down in the past and are very cynical about the prospects of anything being different this time.

In terms of what the various inquiries (as opposed to police investigations) may achieve, I suppose it may be the politicians and the police who get forced into greater reform of the way they handle this stuff as a result of inquiry recommendations. Because a lot of the stuff about other institutions failings that we would normally expect such inquiry reports to dwell on in tedious detail, have already been done or are obsolete. We've already had decades of awareness that large institutions were a bad place to put vulnerable people including the young, which actually got acted on in part because it coincided with changed government economic agendas that favoured or demanded the gutting of many public institutions.
Click to expand...

Written like a true apologist. You have to being paid well to spout this.

I like how institutions are to be blamed for the systematic abuse of children over decades, this will not wash.

Do you think the Lord that was arrested today is just being smeared and is innocent? The MSM won't report the story, Google is restricting searches.
 
Institutions are to be blamed for failing in their duty of care, caring more about their own reputation than victims, etc. Obviously the abusers themselves are guilty of the actual abuse.

Nobody is paying me anything to speak my brains you deluded little shit. Take your twisted and paranoid worldview and stick it. Meanwhile I shall be here to cheer when (or if) people are brought to justice.
 
As for the rumour about the arrested lord, I will wait till it can be substantiated. If true, and if it leads to prosecution, then its a welcome development that will tidy up one instance of a well-placed individual getting away with it. But as of this moment we are a long way away from being able to say that.
 
antibalas said:
Written like a true apologist. You have to being paid well to spout this.

I like how institutions are to be blamed for the systematic abuse of children over decades, this will not wash.

Do you think the Lord that was arrested today is just being smeared and is innocent? The MSM won't report the story, Google is restricting searches.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

Anything to substantiate any of your claims, or are people supposed to take it on trust?
 
Brainaddict said:
Thanks - sounds a reasonable viewpoint. I didn't think Kerry-anne Mendoza (author of that blog) would have gone into full on conspiraloon mode (she has built a decent following among people who want openly leftist journalism and she wouldn't want to blow that I think) but at the same time I could see some logical leaps were being made.
Click to expand...

she's a conspiraloon, was bigging up the zeitgeist stuff recently as well
 
The alleged Elm House guest list linked to earlier. One of those names is independently credible from my PoV. A girlfriend I was with about 10 years ago had a deep dislike for one of those people, and when I asked why I was told it was because he was a "perve", having groped her at the age of 14 at a tennis event.
 
laptop said:
Written like a True Believer with no interest in how the world works. David Icke forums are over there ==>. Bye!
Click to expand...
Nope, I don't frequent the Icke forums at all. Good to see that anyone arguing against the narrative that is being spouted here is immediately Icke'd, strange that.
 
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