How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[butchersapron]

Fellows formally charged - still called 'child star' in headline despite story suggesting it's nonsense. I thought the quality Telegraph was above these games? Anyway, reporting restrictions now lifted.

 

[laptop]

Whose bright idea was it to put a bunch of abuse surviors in a room with Ben Emmerson QC and no Chair?

One of them isn't happy.

In a statement on Tuesday night Emmerson said: “These allegations of bullying and intimidation are entirely baseless. As the Home Office will confirm, Ms Evans’ complaints have already been fully investigated and dismissed as unfounded. The advice that I gave Ms Evans was legally correct and entirely necessary in the circumstances.”

A statement from the panel, excluding Evans, said: “The panel has full confidence in the integrity, advice and impartiality of counsel to the inquiry. We accept the advice provided was robust but do not accept any statements about bullying. We reject any suggestion that the panel has been intimidated

 

[ViolentPanda]

Fellows formally charged - still called 'child star' in headline despite story suggesting it's nonsense. I thought the quality Telegraph was above these games? Anyway, reporting restrictions now lifted.

The Telegraph papers are pretty much empty of any decent journalists, and are running an Express-type operation, relying on agency copy and a handful of staffers to keep the paper and the website current. They're about as "quality" as a shit-stained pair of kecks, and about as original as Douglas Murray's opinions.

 

[bluescreen]

The Telegraph has been going down the pan for a while. It was always the Torygraph but once upon a time had pretensions to journalism. They have sacked or lost so many real journalists that BuzzFeed is a plausible alternative. It's Page One all over again.

 

[bluescreen]

Lol. 10 great films about newspapers Torygraph listicle doesn't mention The Front Page and all that wrestling over ownership vs readership, revenue vs real journalism.

 

[1%er]

Is the Independent Panel Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse being deliberately undermined, anyone got a view on that?

 

[brogdale]

Is the Independent Panel Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse being deliberately undermined, anyone got a view on that?

No need to undermine, just let it work like Chilcot and we'll know about the paedo tories by 2022.

 

[elbows]

Is the Independent Panel Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse being deliberately undermined, anyone got a view on that?

A few of us discussed it a couple of pages back, from this post onwards: #4983

My views and posts on this and other related issues tend to deliberately turn down the cynicism because I don't want it to get in the way of other phenomenon that may be at work. I'm actually capable of being just as cynical about some of these issues, but these are just possibilities to me, rather than possibilities that I'm leaning heavily towards.

 

[1%er]

A few of us discussed it a couple of pages back, from this post onwards: #4983

My views and posts on this and other related issues tend to deliberately turn down the cynicism because I don't want it to get in the way of other phenomenon that may be at work. I'm actually capable of being just as cynical about some of these issues, but these are just possibilities to me, rather than possibilities that I'm leaning heavily towards.

I was thinking that the failure to appoint a Chair must make it very difficult, if not impossible, for the panel to even set-out or agree on its methodology and therefore unable to move forward effectively.

I'll go back and look at the posts you mentioned

 

[brogdale]

I was thinking that the failure to appoint a Chair must make it very difficult, if not impossible, for the panel to even set-out or agree on its methodology and therefore unable to move forward effectively.

I'll go back and look at what you mentioned

..and then there's the Maxwellisation years to factor in...

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Coleman is a full-on conspira-nutter

As if you can't tell just from that article. I'm disappointed Deirdre Barlow wasn't linked in somehow.

 

[elbows]

Labour calling for the inquiry to be rebooted:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30931850

May says she will announce new powers and chair by the end of the month.

 

[hot air baboon]

Number 10's secret sex file: Uncovered after 34 years

document that told Thatcher of the 'unnatural' sexual behaviour of Westminster figures

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...scovered-probably-seen-Margaret-Thatcher.html

Academic found paperwork still classified on national security grounds
It contains 'PREM SECURITY' in title - which means it was for Mrs Thatcher
Thatcher's aide Sir Bernard Ingham says he 'could not recall the file'
But he and PM were aware of abuse claims aimed at a minister, he said
Cabinet Office say file remains secret but may be released to abuse inquiry

 

[AnIdiot]

Just spotted on Twitter that Leon Brittan may have popped his clogs today.

 

[not-bono-ever]

yup- confirmed on bbc

 

[articul8]

will this open the floodgates?

 

[ViolentPanda]

will this open the floodgates?

For crocodile tears and tributes from his contemporaries? Probably.
For evidence about his alleged unnatural lusts? Probably not.

 

[laptop]

It contains 'PREM SECURITY' in title - which means it was for Mrs Thatcher

Idiots. I'm not even, yet, a Public Record Office user - and I an fairly sure PREM simply means it's a paper to or for the Prime Minister's office.

 

[Wilf]

will this open the floodgates?

I was just about to post the same question. There's potential for more to come out about him, certainly, but the same balance of forces is in place over the wider issue. Can't see newspaper editors and others who have stuff really becoming emboldened by his death. Things might fray round the edges though and one thing might lead to another, who knows.

 

[elbows]

I see Exaro published a letter to the panel from a victim yesterday:

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5459/commentary-skulduggery-besieges-inquiry-into-child-sex-abuse

The letter writer has a more complex opinion and questions than the headline and Exaro's apparent editorial stance on these matters suggest. And obviously different victims have different opinions about the panel and other aspects of this inquiry.

I wait with interest to see what new powers, if any, the inquiry is given. Since May said the announcement would happen before the end of Jan, I don't have too long to wait.

 

[elbows]

I was just about to post the same question. There's potential for more to come out about him, certainly, but the same balance of forces is in place over the wider issue. Can't see newspaper editors and others who have stuff really becoming emboldened by his death. Things might fray round the edges though and one thing might lead to another, who knows.

Yeah, I don't see editorial stances changing much because the legal advice they are given about living people won't change.

I think the evidence so far regarding those publications that have shown some real interest in consistently covering such stories or doing at least la little investigation of their own, is roughly as follows:

They are only going to name the dead, or those formally investigated by the police. We don't yet know if they will decide to go further if, given the passage of a fair bit more time, it turns out there aren't going to be any high-profile political prosecutions. There have been occasional signs of pressure being applied by well-timed articles, so I'd think it somewhat reasonable to expect a bit more campaigning, investigative journalism and salacious scandal articles from more than just Exaro if nothing happens on the prosecutions front without this pressure.

 

[elbows]

Fellows formally charged - still called 'child star' in headline despite story suggesting it's nonsense. I thought the quality Telegraph was above these games? Anyway, reporting restrictions now lifted.

With reporting restrictions lifted, thats one less gap between 'legally irresponsible' internet chat and what can be said by publications. Many more to go.

 

[1%er]

Tim Tate is on the byline of the original Daily Telegraph story

“Almost a year ago I interviewed a very senior detective who was handling the Brittan investigation. He was very clear that the Customs Officer (referred to above) had made a clear and credible statement about stopping Brittan at Dover, and seizing child pornography video tapes from him. The Customs Officer stated that he viewed the tapes and was able to describe what was on them.

That statement is – or should be – still held at the Metropolitan Police station from which the investigation was conducted.

I believe that it is essential that the historic child abuse enquiry – assuming it survives – is given a copy of the statement.” – Tim Tate

Telegraph story here

 

[elbows]

Pretty sure Tim Tate was rather vocal in criticising the Exaro version of the customs story too. I remember being somewhat disappointed with the way Exaro handled that criticism (I don't think they addressed most of it, but could be mistaken), but then I forgot to keep looking for any further comments from either side on that one. Seeing him in the blog comments again reminded me of this, I'll try to get rid of my rust on this stuff over the weekend.

 

[J Ed]

So is there anything to this?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.../salford-academic-stumbles-top-secret-8492134

A university lecturer has unearthed a previously top-secret file held at the National Archives which could contain allegations of ‘unnatural sexual’ behaviour by establishment figures in the 1980s.

Dr Chris Murphy, from Salford University, stumbled upon the potentially ‘extremely significant’ file by chance – weeks after a Home Office review into historic child abuse allegations failed to find any documents relevant to its investigation.

Dr Murphy, who is a lecturer in Intelligence Studies, was working on a research project about Government secrecy in the National Archives, in Kew, south West London, when he uncovered a file called: “PREM19/588 - SECURITY. Allegations against former public [word missing] of unnatural sexual proclivities; security aspects 1980 Oct 27 - 1981 Mar 20.”

The “PREM” category of files covers documents and correspondence that passed through the prime minister’s office.

He described how he did a ‘double-take’ when he saw the classified file – before wondering about the implications of the title.

Dr Murphy said: “This material was so significant that it was brought to the attention of Margaret Thatcher. How prominent must this individual have been in public life if it is being raised in Number 10?”

The academic raised the document with Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk, who has campaigned on behalf of victims of child sex abuse.

He said: “It’s astonishing that a Government review into child abuse allegations in the 1980s was unable to find any files that could help the inquiry and yet a Salford University lecturer has now managed to locate a file that could be extremely significant.

“All credit to Chris. Now the Cabinet Office need to publish the contents of this file and stop trying to sweep information relating to historic child abuse under the carpet.”

 

[laptop]

So is there anything to this?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.../salford-academic-stumbles-top-secret-8492134

All depends what's in the file. As I read the stories, Dr Chris Murphy has found its entry in the PRO catalogue but it's not been released. Yet.

Oh, and whether it turns out still to exist...

 

[Wilf]

All a bit unsatisfying these reports. It says the bloke 'unearthed' the file, whereas he presumably read it and may have copied it. He clearly has more detail than was reported here. Presumably he passed that level of detail on to Danczuk. I can understand the paper being a bit coy about some of this detail, they'll have had lawyers restraining the story. The academic may well have had to sign up to some kind of agreement to get access to the archive in the first place. Same time nobody with any official status looks like they are willing to go out on a limb and publish stuff. Certainly not Danczuk. It's all a bit more info, a bit more pressure, more evidence that the Wanless inquiry was an intended joke, but nothing that's going to force the hand of the establishment to even give up a couple of sacrificial lambs.

 

[elbows]

Some blogs have speculated that the file relates to Peter Hayman. I think they are probably jumping to conclusions, but that possibility is feasible.

Sky say the police have already seen the file:

http://news.sky.com/story/1413807/police-already-aware-of-secret-file-content

A Met Police spokeswoman told Sky News: "(We) can confirm we have now had sight of the file, the majority of which we were already aware of in terms of content.

"At this time there are no ongoing inquiries by police in relation to the file."

I'm interested in and want to see such files. But they don't excite me that much in terms of potential prosecutions and revelations, I think they are more likely to be interesting in terms of demonstrating the government and intelligence service attitude to this sort of thing.

 

[laptop]

It says the bloke 'unearthed' the file, whereas he presumably read it and may have copied it.

Nope. As I said, he found it in the catalogue.

The Manchester Evening News report is over-egging the pudding a bit, but much less so than others:

A Cabinet Office spokeswoman said classifications of filed are ‘reviewed periodically’.

She added: “In this case, the file was kept closed and retained as it contained information from the security services and advice from the Law Officers.” Asked whether it would be released to the current institutional child sex abuse inquiry, the spokeswoman said: “We are clear that any files that are pertinent to the historical child sex abuse inquiry will be made available to the panel.”

His point - and it's a good one - is that he:

stumbled upon the potentially ‘extremely significant’ file by chance – weeks after a Home Office review into historic child abuse allegations failed to find any documents relevant to its investigation.

 

[Wilf]

Nope. As I said, he found it in the catalogue.

The Manchester Evening News report is over-egging the pudding a bit, but much less so than others:



:

Ah. I had an image of dusty archives and half moon spectacles.