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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

Dame Butler-Sloss on Radio 4's Today programme this morning is worth a listen to. Towards the end she provides a spirited defence of the establishment as trusted protectors of society; in doing so she also marginalises the victims of child abuse specifically (and I'd argue all victims more generally). The combined lack of critical self awareness and entitlement is powerful.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
First, I think the charity is probably overstating its case - the claim that literally every town in the nation exhibits child abuse is incredible and smacks of an organisation that either doesn't understand its scope or, more likely, is trying to widen it to improve its prominence.

Second, there is an underlying point about an escalation of claims. This is what I've been going on about for some time now. The greater the claim, the more sufficient the need for evidence, otherwise you're set to ride a runaway train of suspicious rumours and vague conspiracy theories. That is exhibited here with this charity and also with the suggestions of a historic high level paedophile ring.

Third, and finally, there is something weirdly salacious about all these matters and that is a bit troubling - that people would like this to be true rather than false.
 
Dame Butler-Sloss on Radio 4's Today programme this morning is worth a listen to. Towards the end she provides a spirited defence of the establishment as trusted protectors of society; in doing so she also marginalises the victims of child abuse specifically (and I'd argue all victims more generally). The combined lack of critical self awareness and entitlement is powerful.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Opened up with a series of lies about not wanting the role, not knowing of the Dickens' dossier and then asking listeners to sympathise when her integrity was doubted...."no-one looks at the reality, they look at how they feel about things...". She then attempted a mealy-mouthed defence of her proteaction of the CoE Bishop, denied she was part of the establishment and then attempted to 'contextualise' establishment CSA in the "different views of the time".

More of this needed on the media.

 
First, I think the charity is probably overstating its case - the claim that literally every town in the nation exhibits child abuse is incredible and smacks of an organisation that either doesn't understand its scope or, more likely, is trying to widen it to improve its prominence.

I don't know the organisation in question, but I doubt any organisation involved in trying to support child abuse victims or prevent child abuse would disagree with the statement that you disagree with. just because you don't want it to be true doesn't mean that things really are that bad.

You expand a lot of energy on trying to stop people listening to survivors and the charities that support them. That's pretty troubling, imo.
 
I don't know the organisation in question, but I doubt any organisation involved in trying to support child abuse victims or prevent child abuse would disagree with the statement that you disagree with. just because you don't want it to be true doesn't mean that things really are that bad.

You expand a lot of energy on trying to stop people listening to survivors and the charities that support them. That's pretty troubling, imo.

I'm writing on an online message board - if you think that expends a lot of energy then perhaps you should get out more.
 
First, I think the charity is probably overstating its case - the claim that literally every town in the nation exhibits child abuse is incredible and smacks of an organisation that either doesn't understand its scope or, more likely, is trying to widen it to improve its prominence.

Second, there is an underlying point about an escalation of claims. This is what I've been going on about for some time now. The greater the claim, the more sufficient the need for evidence, otherwise you're set to ride a runaway train of suspicious rumours and vague conspiracy theories. That is exhibited here with this charity and also with the suggestions of a historic high level paedophile ring.

Third, and finally, there is something weirdly salacious about all these matters and that is a bit troubling - that people would like this to be true rather than false.
Don't know if they are overstating their case. It's certainly the case that tolerance has lessened and that's all to the good. Frex (and this is anecdotage that can easily be dismissed) at my school back in the last century the caretaker had a hut where he'd receive girls aged 12-13. They'd emerge swaggering and 'everyone knew' what had been going on, and basically those girls were regarded as no better than they ought to have been. It appals me now, looking back, and I'm astounded no member of staff took action. I have other anecdotes, but can't imagine that my small market town was particularly like Royston Vasey.

No comment about the second paragraph except that people are bound to pile in even if it's true and the piling in isn't evidence of untruth. It can be a function of Thank God Now Someone Will Believe Me.

As for the last point, yes: there is something weirdly salacious, which is what attracted villains in the first place. It shouldn't stop us from discussing it.
 
Opened up with a series of lies about not wanting the role, not knowing of the Dickens' dossier and then asking listeners to sympathise when her integrity was doubted...."no-one looks at the reality, they look at how they feel about things...". She then attempted a mealy-mouthed defence of her proteaction of the CoE Bishop, denied she was part of the establishment and then attempted to 'contextualise' establishment CSA in the "different views of the time".

More of this needed on the media.

Possible to watch her lying here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30640879
 
"I do believe the establishment has in the past looked after itself, partly because people did not really recognise the seriousness of child abuse and they did not think it was so important, and it was important to protect members of the establishment.

"So I would want to go in with a knife and cut the whole thing open and expose it, as to what happened, bearing in mind, of course, that the views of those people are not the views of people today and that is a difficulty."
Wtf do the words in bold mean? :eek:

E2A reference: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30640879
 
Waaa-hey!

A woman who claims that an American investment banker loaned her to rich and powerful friends as an underage “sex slave” has alleged in a US court document that she was repeatedly forced to have sexual relations with Prince Andrew.

The accusation against the Duke of York is contained in a motion filed in a Florida court this week in connection with a long-running lawsuit brought by women who say they were exploited by Jeffrey Epstein, a multi-millionaire convicted of soliciting sex with an underage girl after a plea deal.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rew-named-us-lawsuit-underage-sex-allegations

Even better:

, another close associate of Epstein who is also accused in the lawsuit, Alan Dershowitz, told the Guardian that the woman’s accusations against himself were “totally false and made up”.

(For some grim value of "better".)
 
Dame Butler-Sloss on Radio 4's Today programme this morning is worth a listen to. Towards the end she provides a spirited defence of the establishment as trusted protectors of society; in doing so she also marginalises the victims of child abuse specifically (and I'd argue all victims more generally). The combined lack of critical self awareness and entitlement is powerful.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I enjoyed the Lord Mayor of London claiming not to be a member of the establishment as well.
 
Has Leon Brittain said much about the Dickens dossier? other than yes he saw it and handed it over to someone else. Nothing about following it up or anything?
 
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rew-named-us-lawsuit-underage-sex-allegations

well they are only allegations so far, im sure nothing will come of it mind :hmm:

I suppose the 'new' aspect to this news story is the actual naming, but to my untrained eye, little appears likely to come of it.

The duke had previously been accused of meeting Epstein’s young victims and possibly being aware of their sexual exploitation. However, this is the first time he has been named in a court document as a participant in any sexual activity with one of the young women allegedly trafficked by Epstein.

As the claim has only just been lodged, and as the duke is not a named party to it, he has not had the opportunity to formally file a defence or denial to the claims.
 

But it's given the state broadcaster another angle with which to fearlessly report the royal noncery...

25136bc9-0f6d-4503-8a88-1a913bbf465f_zpsca365e39.png
 
So the bbcs angle is that prince andrew is in the clear cos somone else, also accused of noncery, claims its all lies?
 
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