elbows
Well-Known Member
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-dossier-handed-to-scotland-yard-9938374.html
Sounds like it includes cases that he hasn't got very compelling evidence for yet.
How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?
- Thread starter free spirit
- Start date
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-dossier-handed-to-scotland-yard-9938374.html
Sounds like it includes cases that he hasn't got very compelling evidence for yet.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...massive throbbing dribbling knob-end John Humphries on R4 this morning....( to Peter Saunders )
"...well I have a slight problem with you calling yourselves "survivors" of abuse...I mean you all survived didn't you...can we agree on victims....?"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vddwq
0810
Dozens of victims, social workers and child protection experts have signed a letter urging the home secretary to scrap the current public inquiry into child abuse and rethink its structure. Its expected Theresa May will announce she's disbanding the expert panel that's been continuing the inquiry's work while the government looks for a new chairman. The new inquiry is to have legal powers to compel witnesses to give evidence. We hear from Peter Saunders, chief executive of The National Association for People Abused in Childhood and Tim Loughton, Former Children's Minister and Member of the Home Affairs Select Committee.
"...well I have a slight problem with you calling yourselves "survivors" of abuse...I mean you all survived didn't you...can we agree on victims....?"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vddwq
0810
Dozens of victims, social workers and child protection experts have signed a letter urging the home secretary to scrap the current public inquiry into child abuse and rethink its structure. Its expected Theresa May will announce she's disbanding the expert panel that's been continuing the inquiry's work while the government looks for a new chairman. The new inquiry is to have legal powers to compel witnesses to give evidence. We hear from Peter Saunders, chief executive of The National Association for People Abused in Childhood and Tim Loughton, Former Children's Minister and Member of the Home Affairs Select Committee.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...what I want is for the first bastard eventually dragged in & looking at a long stay on the nonce wing to start singing like a canary for a plea-bargain & take all the other c**ts down with them...or does that only happen on US cop shows....?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Ministers, not cabinet ministers.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
oh. Well spotted.
I've just counted up and can't believe there's something like 112 ministers these days.
I say something like 112 as I really can't be fucked to do a recount to be sure, suffice to say there's fucking loads of them.
Whether a system is inquisitorial or adversarial is largely irrelevant as to liability.
Liability is a question of a substantive test, whereas the route you use to determine liability is a matter of procedure, not substance.
Furthermore, you seem to assume that the matter is proven, or, at the very least, almost certainly likely to be proven, which is, at best, unclear.
But the really important point on inquisitorial v adversarial is that, without proper oversight or appropriate checks and balances, the inquisitorial system lends itself to mission creep far more readily than the adversarial system does, especially when those under investigation are dead and cannot defend themselves in personam.
My opinon is that inquiries of the kind favoured by the current government undermine the rule of law.
They are sops that quell public opinion or address special interest groups in a manner that is of little utility and encourage the peculiar form of litigation that they generate - i.e. a lot of lawyers getting wealthy by addressing an investigation with such a massively wide and ill-defined scope as to be essentially meaningless in its conclusions (while being unable to act on them also!).
Distraction from more important, present issues very well done...
Last edited:
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
What "more important, present issues" do you think these might be?
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
(Cos, yanno, the allegation that an MP raped someone and the polis/Special Branch covered it up is so last year.)
As I have already set out earlier in this thread, the most obvious one would be the Rotherham CSA events.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
What has Rotherham to do with any of this? All there is in common is an unwillingness to listen to children.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Yes, you answered directly but failed to explain the connection. You might as well have said obscene spending on arms, or child poverty. Or are you just a racist jerk?
Case A - CSA in the 80s has generated 165 pages of comment.
Case B - CSA now has generated 50 pages of comment.
And please substantiate your racist query with something resembling a coherent argument, rather than a pathetic insult.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
To be fair, the common theme that links Rotherham and the allegations against pols is the persistent allegation of police corruption. That is seriously worthy of investigation.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Right. So we may now take participation in threads on urban as evidence of anything other than participation in threads on urban? As for the allegation of racism - I cite the utter irrelevance of Rotherham to the allegations of a high level UK paedophile ring. There was nothing AFAIK high level about it, unless you know different.
That's a pretty incoherent post to be fair but I think I can see what you are getting at.
What I'm saying is that there is no direct link, nor is there any conspiracy to distract people directly from Rotherham on to the 80s stuff. I find that equally as incredible an idea because it falls into CT epistelomogy, which never makes any sense to me at all for simple, practical reasons.
What I do think, though, is that people who are really fired up about child sexual abuse (CSA) should probably direct their efforts to where CSA has been recently proven rather than depart on quixotic adventures, as presently seems to be the case.
Or to put it simply - Rotherham has no link to Westminster and that is precisely the problem. (no one cares for Rotherham and vice versa etc...)
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Yes. I do see the common thread of CSA. But silly me. Of course it's impossible that Westminster politicians could have been corrupt. It's that chimera that has been leading us all this merry dance with disappearing dossiers, vanishing witnesses, Special Branch intimidation and other such nonsense. Of course we are living in a spy novel fantasy. None of this could have possibly happened and there is no evidence for it whatsoever. Thanks for putting me right. I appreciate your authority and insight.
I do query your assertion that no one cares for Rotherham.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...sexual-abuse-scandal-tip-iceberg-police-chief
I do query your assertion that no one cares for Rotherham.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/...sexual-abuse-scandal-tip-iceberg-police-chief
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Which, you can't deny, is a dog-whistle. So don't pretend otherwise.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
Westminster paedophile ring: Was second man killed over child abuse cover-up?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/westminster-paedophile-ring-second-man-4858393
Two men may have been murdered as part of an establishment cover-up into child sex abuse allegations, an MP sensationally claimed today.
A council official and a caretaker may have been killed to stop them exposing a Westminster paedophile ring, Labour’s John Mann said.
The murder claims centre on Daily Mirror revelations seven months ago about Lambeth Council official Bulic Forsythe, who died in February 1993 in suspicious circumstances. He had vowed to expose a paedophile ring allegedly linked to a future minister in Tony Blair’s government.
Bulic told a witness he suspected vulnerable youngsters were being assaulted by an organised gang at one children’s home said to have been visited by the Labour politician.But days later Bulic, 42, was beaten to death in his flat which was later set on fire. The case has remained unsolved for 21 years.
Mr Mann today said social services manager Bulic - and an unnamed council caretaker - could have been killed to silence them.
The caretaker died in a “suspicious” fire, Mr Mann said, adding that the worker “was providing information and tapes relating to sex abuse and sex parties” in the run-up to his death.
He claimed the deaths were “undoubtedly linked” to child abuse at Westminster and “potentially linked to the wider scandal” involving other high-profile figures.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/westminster-paedophile-ring-second-man-4858393
Two men may have been murdered as part of an establishment cover-up into child sex abuse allegations, an MP sensationally claimed today.
A council official and a caretaker may have been killed to stop them exposing a Westminster paedophile ring, Labour’s John Mann said.
The murder claims centre on Daily Mirror revelations seven months ago about Lambeth Council official Bulic Forsythe, who died in February 1993 in suspicious circumstances. He had vowed to expose a paedophile ring allegedly linked to a future minister in Tony Blair’s government.
Bulic told a witness he suspected vulnerable youngsters were being assaulted by an organised gang at one children’s home said to have been visited by the Labour politician.But days later Bulic, 42, was beaten to death in his flat which was later set on fire. The case has remained unsolved for 21 years.
Mr Mann today said social services manager Bulic - and an unnamed council caretaker - could have been killed to silence them.
The caretaker died in a “suspicious” fire, Mr Mann said, adding that the worker “was providing information and tapes relating to sex abuse and sex parties” in the run-up to his death.
He claimed the deaths were “undoubtedly linked” to child abuse at Westminster and “potentially linked to the wider scandal” involving other high-profile figures.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
Charles Napier jailed for 13 years for child sex abuse
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30591158
23 December 2014 Last updated at 14:59
Former teacher Charles Napier has been sentenced to 13 years in prison for sexually abusing 21 boys between 1967 and 1972.
Napier pleaded guilty to the offences at Southwark Crown Court in November.
He admitted 28 indecent assault charges and one indecency offence on a child. All his victims were under 16.
Napier, who is the half-brother of Conservative MP John Whittingdale, was arrested in 2013 as part of Operation Cayacos, one strand of Scotland Yard's wider investigation into historical child abuse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30591158
23 December 2014 Last updated at 14:59
Former teacher Charles Napier has been sentenced to 13 years in prison for sexually abusing 21 boys between 1967 and 1972.
Napier pleaded guilty to the offences at Southwark Crown Court in November.
He admitted 28 indecent assault charges and one indecency offence on a child. All his victims were under 16.
Napier, who is the half-brother of Conservative MP John Whittingdale, was arrested in 2013 as part of Operation Cayacos, one strand of Scotland Yard's wider investigation into historical child abuse.
124 at http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/government-and-opposition1/her-majestys-government/ (select "A-Z") though that includes Whips.
(I didn't actually count, I searched the sourcecode for "<td rowspan=".)
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I'd excluded the whips, wasn't sure if they classed as ministers or not.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
The problem is, there were 2 other threads that were dealing with other non-connected child abuse cases / the reporting of those cases, while this thread deliberately wasn't as it was focussed on uncovering evidence or otherwise of there being a high level political paedophile ring / network and associated cover ups.
Unfortunately the other 2 threads ended up being locked for some reason (bickering and infighting I assume), leaving only this one, and Rotherham doesn't really belong in this thread.
There is however this 50 page thread that does exclusively focus on Rotherham, so if you want to discuss Rotherham maybe that'd be the better place to do it.
You thoroughly misunderstand the point I was trying to make, which is remarkable because it was pretty plainly made in the first instance.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
So, is Charles Napier going to spill the beans over what he knows. He claims he's remorseful, but I'm waging not THAT remorseful.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Quite possibly...not that we'd ever find out what the beans were.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Its never been clear to me what people think the likes of Charles Napier actually knows. Certainly we get headlines from time to time that he might hold the key to unlocking some huge network, but I've never heard anything that really points in that direction. The nature of his offending doesn't seem to involve politicians, so I assume its PIE stuff that holds the most interest. Certainly as treasurer he may know some interesting things, but for me in many ways a lot of the PIE stuff is easy repeating of tabloid stuff past, as opposed to a key to unlocking high-level abuse.
Links to Peter Righton are the other possibility of interest, but aside from the Righton stuff being a major part of the Tom Watson speech that launched the westminster side of the post-Savile story, its not clear to me where this angle is supposed to lead either. I suppose from what we know so far it looks like there could be a story here about paedophiles within various institutions trying to help each other out, and it is very important that this be looked at properly. But there are certainly limits to our assumptions on this front, not least because yet again we are dealing with people who were prosecuted in the past, so clearly were not receiving utter immunity by virtue of having powerful mates.
I'll throw the above stances away in a heartbeat if something interesting emerges, but I have no particular reason to think it will.
Links to Peter Righton are the other possibility of interest, but aside from the Righton stuff being a major part of the Tom Watson speech that launched the westminster side of the post-Savile story, its not clear to me where this angle is supposed to lead either. I suppose from what we know so far it looks like there could be a story here about paedophiles within various institutions trying to help each other out, and it is very important that this be looked at properly. But there are certainly limits to our assumptions on this front, not least because yet again we are dealing with people who were prosecuted in the past, so clearly were not receiving utter immunity by virtue of having powerful mates.
I'll throw the above stances away in a heartbeat if something interesting emerges, but I have no particular reason to think it will.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
That they are redefining how bullies get sex.
Sorry. That sounds flippant. I mean this has been going on a long time and what's changing is society's attitude.
Sorry. That sounds flippant. I mean this has been going on a long time and what's changing is society's attitude.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
next they'll be telling us that the pope is catholic. let me guess - for you this shows that we should ignore the links between centres of political power and paedophilia because grooming?
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