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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

kenny g said:
Yep - the article I linked to does mention Ken Clarke was a whip during the heath era. Knowing what we do now about that time and the then whippery I am s
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Ken Clarke was on 5 Live this morning saying that losing Baroness Schloss was ridiculous. He carried on to say that it was a silly story (the Geoffrey Dicken's one) and that the police or the press had failed to find anything on it. He said it was absurd that there was some organised cover up and equally absurd that Michael Havers was involved in some cover up conspiracy (to anyone that knew him)
You can listen here from 2-45 mins in...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0495jkn

After he had spoken Nicky Campbell spoke to Ian McFadyen (who was abused at Caldicott Boys Preparatory School) who reponded to what Ken Clarke had said
 
From a Roy Greenslade blog in The Guardian

Editor explains why he didn't publish Barbara Castle's paedophile dossier



The Daily Star Sunday published an interesting exclusive at the weekend: "Second paedo dossier cover-up after cop raid".

It revealed that a former newspaper editor, Don Hale, was handed a dossier at some time in the early 1980s about 16 high-profile political figures who appeared sympathetic to the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE).

The document was given to Hale, the then editor of the Bury Messenger, by the late Barbara Castle, the veteran Labour politician.

At the time, Castle was a member of the European parliament for Greater Manchester after her 34-year stint as MP for Blackburn.

According to the Star's report, once Hale began to investigate the claims made in the dossier "an astonishing operation kicked in to silence the claims."

First, Hale said he was visited by the Liberal MP for Rochdale, Cyril Smith, who tried to persuade the journalist that it was "all poppycock".

Second, Hale said special branch officers arrived at the Messenger's office, showed him a D-notice and warned him of imprisonment if he failed to hand over the dossier.

Hale had agreed with Castle that he would run a story the week after she handed him her documents. He was quoted by the Star as saying:

"Obviously, I had to contact certain members named [in the dossier] and the home office for their responses.

Each call was met with shock horror as to why I should be wasting my time asking these 'daft' questions as nothing was happening within parliament.

When I explained the detailed nature of the information available and that I couldn't reveal my source, you could almost hear a pin drop as officials were unsure as to what to say or do."

Then came the special branch visit. Hale said: "I was sworn to secrecy by special branch at the risk of jail if I repeated any of the allegations.

"When I met Barbara again, she apologised for the 'hassle' caused and reluctantly admitted she was fighting a formidable foe."

The revelations follow revelations about a dossier compiled by the late Tory MP Geoffrey Dickens detailing an alleged Westminster paedophile ring.

Don Hale later became editor of the Matlock Mercury where he successfully campaigned for the release of Stephen Downing, a man wrongly imprisoned for 27 years for murder. Downing's conviction was quashed and declared unsafe by the appeal court in 2001.

Hale was named journalist of the year in the 2001 What the Papers Say awards and received the OBE for his campaigning journalism.

Since leaving the Mercury in 2001 Hale has written several books, mostly about crime.

Source: Daily Star Sunday Hat tip: HoldTheFrontPage

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jul/15/daily-star-sunday-cyril-smith
 
Kalfindin said:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/tory-child-abuse-whistleblower-i-3848

Whistleblower and former Conservative party activist Anthony Gilberthorpe says he provided child prostitutes for a sex and drugs party with top politicians

Senior Tory cabinet ministers were supplied with underage boys for sex parties, it is sensationally claimed.

Former Conservative activist Anthony Gilberthorpe said he told Margaret Thatcher 25 years ago about what he had witnessed and gave her names of those involved

Anthony says he was a full-time political activist when he helped procure the “youngest and prettiest” boys for several cabinet ministers after being told to find “entertainment”.

In a series of explosive claims about conferences at Blackpool and Brighton in the 1980s, he alleges boys as young as 15 indulged in alcohol and cocaine before they had sex with the powerful politicians.

He says one person who attended a party is a current serving minister.

Others said to be present at the parties included Keith Joseph, Rhodes Boyson, Dr Alistair Smith and Michael Havers
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Is it just me or does Gilberthorpe's story not have the ring of truth about it? There was something about the way it worded that sounded to me how it might read if someone was farbricating a sensational story for the tabloids. And Rhodes Boyson doing coke, hmmm. By contrast, Alex Wheatle's account in the Mirror yesterday seemed genuine to me, the unnamed adults men roaming around the childrens' home, no-one quite knowing quite what their legitimate role was.:mad:

I may be wrong. But I reckon the papers' sudden frenzy to run their own scoop may have led to individuals thinking they can make a few bob.

Equally - and this may be just me being suspicious - I was dubious about the item claiming MI5 had had it in for Leon Brittan and were, what, concocting, or suddenly making available, these allegations, or had done in the 1980s re. the rape claim. It suggested there was an element of anti-semitism in MI5 and that they objected to a Jewish Home Secretary...but Thatcher's Cabinet had several other Jewish members...Howard was at one stage H.S. as well.

It read to me like the sort of thing Fred Holroyd and Colin Wallace recalled doing, working for the 'secret state' re. Ireland in the 1970s - deliberate spread of misinformation, sometimes to deflect attention away, sometimes just to muddy the waters.:hmm:
 
scalyboy said:
but Thatcher's Cabinet had several other Jewish members...Howard was at one stage H.S. as well.
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"Members" being the operative word. ;)

Howard was Home Sec under John 'Pass the Peas' Major. He was Employment Sec'y briefly under Thatcher and held the same job under Major for around a year.

We should also remember that while he was Tory leader, he adopted (or Crosby did) the same slogan that was much loved by the NF in the late 70s: "Are you thinking what we're thinking"?:facepalm:
 
scalyboy said:
Is it just me or does Gilberthorpe's story not have the ring of truth about it?
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The tables of cocaine aspect seemed especially improbable. Unless they were being served particularly shit powder, or had developed monumental tolerances, the idea of tables of powder getting shoved up their hooters prior to having to give speeches etc the next day sounds like absolute bollocks. Maybe a few lines laid out discretely but tables of the stuff sounds like BS to me.
 
elbows said:
And according to Exaro, Charles Napier has been arrested as part of operation Fairbank.

Napier is half-brother of John Whittingdale MP, Conservative.

Further background of Charles Napier is mentioned in this Mirror article from last year for those struggling to recall who is who in the whole PIE angle. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paedophile-scandal-charles-napier-could-1430365
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Now charged along with another man.

Charles Napier, 66, of Sherborne, Dorset, is accused of inciting a child to commit an act of gross indecency.

Richard Alston is charged with five counts of indecent assault and three counts of gross indecency with a child.
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kenny g said:
The tables of cocaine aspect seemed especially improbable. Unless they were being served particularly shit powder, or had developed monumental tolerances, the idea of tables of powder getting shoved up their hooters prior to having to give speeches etc the next day sounds like absolute bollocks. Maybe a few lines laid out discretely but tables of the stuff sounds like BS to me.
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Well, yes, this was my view a couple of pages back:

Wilf said:
Must admit when I read his story some of it did read like an attempt to get all the most bizarre, dead, Tories at one party, raping kids and doing coke. Not sure why but I somehow struggle to see Boyles-Rodent doing lines. Trouble is with these stories, ultimately the truth is always worse than you imagined.
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The bloke has a grieveance and is pretty much admitting to criminal behaviour himself. It may have its origin in real events but sounded overdone. You do wonder what games the papers are playing, pretty much willing to run anything on the dead, but terrified to go with the chapter and verse they will undoubtedly have on a number of leading politicians. Not unexpected, but no real sense of there being any campaigning journalism.
 
scalyboy said:
Is it just me or does Gilberthorpe's story not have the ring of truth about it? There was something about the way it worded that sounded to me how it might read if someone was farbricating a sensational story for the tabloids. And Rhodes Boyson doing coke, hmmm. By contrast, Alex Wheatle's account in the Mirror yesterday seemed genuine to me, the unnamed adults men roaming around the childrens' home, no-one quite knowing quite what their legitimate role was.:mad:

I may be wrong. But I reckon the papers' sudden frenzy to run their own scoop may have led to individuals thinking they can make a few bob.

Equally - and this may be just me being suspicious - I was dubious about the item claiming MI5 had had it in for Leon Brittan and were, what, concocting, or suddenly making available, these allegations, or had done in the 1980s re. the rape claim. It suggested there was an element of anti-semitism in MI5 and that they objected to a Jewish Home Secretary...but Thatcher's Cabinet had several other Jewish members...Howard was at one stage H.S. as well.

It read to me like the sort of thing Fred Holroyd and Colin Wallace recalled doing, working for the 'secret state' re. Ireland in the 1970s - deliberate spread of misinformation, sometimes to deflect attention away, sometimes just to muddy the waters.:hmm:
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There will be alot of muddying the waters and disinformation to make the public believe its too incredible to be true. I expect lots of fake witnesses who will be discredited.

There should be a full inquiry into the Monday club, its linked to nearly all of these events, its seems to be a nest of far right hang em and flog em type degenerates, the same mixed up weirdos who outwardly oppose gay equal rights, its no coincidence far right authoritarian types are liked to abuse, their worldview is one of abusing people less fortunate and all about power and control, scum.

William Hague being around such degenerates at an early age most likely started out as a victim as well.

To think these scum who deserve a hard death for their crimes against the innocent and the people, who wrecked the country had the audacity to call the brave IRA soldiers who died on hunger strike criminals.
 
Quite possible.

Disagree about Howard though, whatever his many faults from a political perspective he certainly wasn't into the homicidal depravity of the likes of Edward Heath
 
Wilf said:
Well, yes, this was my view a couple of pages back:

The bloke has a grieveance and is pretty much admitting to criminal behaviour himself. It may have its origin in real events but sounded overdone. You do wonder what games the papers are playing, pretty much willing to run anything on the dead, but terrified to go with the chapter and verse they will undoubtedly have on a number of leading politicians. Not unexpected, but no real sense of there being any campaigning journalism.
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Gilberthorpe's use of the term 'rent boys' leaves an even more unpleasant taste in the mouth given that by his own admission he is the one who exemplifies all the negative connotations he intends by it.

I also note the way he has been promoted to being a "whistleblower". Presumably the justification for using the word is his story of the dossier he supposedly sent Thatcher. (Doubtless another one that has gone "missing"). Apart from that the only thing even close to 'whistleblowing' is whatever he told Max Clifford and/or the Sunday Mirror in 1997 when he was paid to help expose Piers Merchant.

How did the Sunday Mirror get this? It was arranged through Anthony Gilberthorpe, and filmed at his York home, the apparatus being set up by a surveillance expert.

It is understood that Mr Gilberthorpe, who had worked for Mr Merchant in the mid 80s when he was MP for Newcastle Central and subsequently kept in touch, took the story to the Sunday Mirror at the end of last week. A figure of around pounds 25,000 was negotiated. Mr Gilberthorpe has not been available for comment since.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/anatomy-of-a-sting-how-an-mp-was-trapped-1236130.html

(For those who have forgotten him the late Piers Merchant was a serious contender for most stupid Tory MP of his generation. He was first set up by The Sun as having an affair with a Ms Cox whose agent just happened to be Max Clifford.
Cox had been speculatively sent along to a Tory meeting to get close to Merchant, just in case his eye for an attractive young girl got the better of his judgment. (...) Unbeknown to the MP, a photographer from The Sun was concealed in a nearby ditch
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Almost unbelievably he then actually began an affair with her and was promptly caught out by the Sunday Mirror having been set up by Gilberthorpe.
Merchant took Cox to the Tory conference in Blackpool that year, and afterwards for a two-night break in York at a discreet flat owned by his former researcher, Anthony Gilberthorpe. In fact, Merchant was about to fall victim to another tabloid sting. Gilberthorpe had been paid £25,000 by the Sunday Mirror, whose journalists had wired the flat with concealed video recorders to capture the couple's cavortings.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/politics-obituaries/6224063/Piers-Merchant.html

Cue resignation).
 
10518991_328780713947619_6458938639120776648_n.jpg
 
kenny g said:
The tables of cocaine aspect seemed especially improbable. Unless they were being served particularly shit powder, or had developed monumental tolerances, the idea of tables of powder getting shoved up their hooters prior to having to give speeches etc the next day sounds like absolute bollocks. Maybe a few lines laid out discretely but tables of the stuff sounds like BS to me.
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Aye. There was very little cocaine available in Britain in the '80s.
 
scalyboy said:
Is it just me or does Gilberthorpe's story not have the ring of truth about it?
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I find it impossible to judge. No important aspects of the story stuck me as being beyond the reasonable bounds of possibility. He clearly has an axe to grind about the tory party he dealt with and failed to progress through in his quest for power, and both he and probably the journalist(s) who spoke to him didn't hold back on making the story tabloid-tastic. But on the other hand I have no trouble imagining such parties having taken place, the details of which would come already well setup for typical tabloid banter, no modification needed.

For me to attempt to judge the story, I'm left with few options other than to study the deceased people he named. And to wonder how many members of the press are now aware of the living people it sounds like he probably named!

For me to judge the dead ones named is tricky in many instances. Without some personal knowledge or contacts who were there at the time, it is pointless for me to attempt to peer inside the 'huge closet' of the tories, as the only ones I'll spot are the more obvious ones or ones that the press has had fun with over the years hinting about. There will be others that are not obvious,it is futile for me to make assumptions about how likely it was they were gay or at least ambivalent about which sex they were screwing, let alone whether they would indulge in that kind of scene, snort cocaine, abuse underage boys, etc.

For example, if I start a quest to learn more about Dr Alistair Smith, and start off reading an obituary to see if there were any very vague hints slipped in, I'm left clutching at very thin straws like this:

Some dozen years ago, he surprised many by deciding to spend his retirement in Sri Lanka, and he settled in the township of Bentota.
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http://www.scotsman.com/news/obitua...local-party-at-the-tender-age-of-28-1-2452002

I can't build a useful picture with stuff like that, any more than I can look at some of the theories people have about the reshuffle and know which angle I'd like to buy into, other than 'no idea'. I guess I am frustrated that I don't really have any interesting new dots to join despite weeks of, at times, press frenzy. The Gilberthorpe stuff is the first stuff I've really heard about regarding politicians and child abuse that wasn't already in the press or public/semi-public rumour mill decades ago. It would be really rather useful to know if its a bullshit red herring or not.

As for use of the term 'rent boys', when I use it I will normally be doing so precisely because I want to make points that involve all the loaded baggage that come with that term. I am entirely unqualified to talk about the subject, but I know its a part of many of these stories, and it pains me that it tends to only get mentioned with the passing use of the phrase 'rent boy' in the press. And the tabloids may be the ones to throw the phrase around so lightly, but I see few other segments of society that are prepared to talk in detail about young male sex workers and the couple of different ways that they are part of these stories of historical abuse by the powerful. Plus I feel the need to harp on about this because when it comes to the question of whether such abuses occur as much in the present age as they did in the past, I would think that young sex workers would be on the front lines of any modern forms of the activity. I suppose if we push these sorts of points to their natural conclusion, we might get into issues of power that could be applied far more broadly and would certainly apply to politicians and political systems. e.g. when it comes to power and exploitation, how much less guilty are you of abuse if the person handed to you on a plate was placed in their current predicament and losing end of the power dynamic by abuse and neglect they suffered at the hands of others, institutions, ideologies, indoctrination regimes etc at an earlier time?
 
Clive Driscoll has spoken to Newsnight! I'm still absorbing it and looking at the detail, on the face of it what he says matches what has already been said happened to his investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28316874

Mr Driscoll told BBC Newsnight that while conducting a 1998 inquiry into allegations of abuse in children's homes in Lambeth, south London, in the 1980s, he was passed a list of suspects' names, including politicians, that he wanted to investigate.

Speaking for the first time since retirement, he said: "Some of the names were people that were locally working, some people that were, if you like, working nationally.

"There was quite a mix really because it appeared that it was connected to other boroughs and other movement around the country."

He said after he had shared his suspicions at a meeting, he was taken off the investigation.

'Fear of reprisals'
"I certainly, in a case conference, disclosed suspects' names... but I was informed that was inappropriate and I would be removed from my post."

Mr Driscoll added: "Whenever people spoke to you... about what they had seen, it was almost on the proviso that they wouldn't make a statement and that they would be scared if you released who those people were that were talking, for fear of reprisals to both their selves and their families."
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elbows said:
I doubt it, not least because the appetite is clearly for 'bigger names'. Its probably just the justice system finally reaching the charging stage after a long journey.
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Fair enough. I bet a few of the more naive party faithful might have hoped that a few scraps tossed to the baying hounds might distract them a little, though :)
 
The first 3 minutes of my local bbc midlands news bulletin tonight involved the Peter Righton stuff, and the latest midlands-based person to come forwards and make noises about how claims regarding Rightons wider network were treated by government etc back in the day. There's not a lot of detail here really, but it demonstrates how those now speaking up from the lower/regional echelons of the establishment past are becoming something of a chorus right now. In this case the former head of social services for Hereford and Worcester many years ago, David Tombs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b048rxtj/midlands-today-15072014

edited to add that it seems this story broke some days ago via a radio 4 interview:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28275611

Mr Tombs, who in charge of social services in his area for 20 years, claims that when Righton was arrested in 1992, he became aware of information through the police investigation that suggested a paedophilic network was operating.

He said what he learned would have been of "national concern" and told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "It was coming across to me at the time that there were names there that were linked into the establishment, if you like.

"I had no particular names, but that was the impression I was getting."

He said when he alerted Department of Health representatives, he was told by civil servants that he was "probably wasting [his] time" because there were "too many of them over there".

Asked what he thought was meant by the word "them", Mr Tombs said "those within Parliament and government in Whitehall".
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laptop, this is a serious question. Do you think it credible that snorting and buggering could have been going on at the Tory conference without the press being aware? Or are you suggesting the press were party to corruption?
*shields eyes*
 
The thing that enrages me - oh, there's lots that enrages me - is the idea that homeless working class boys were regarded as expendable by the elite. That might not be an actual thing, I suppose. But it's certainly a thing that some boys were exploited by some powerful men.
 
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