Hartlepool by-election

[brogdale]

Hartlepool becomes the 12th (out of 65) constituency in the most deprived decile to return a tory MP.
It joins:

Blackpool South
Walsall North
Birmingham Northfield
Burnley
Great Grimsby
Stoke-on-Trent Central
West Bromwich West
Clacton
Blackpool North & Cleverleys
Bolton North East
& West Bromwich East

in that.

 

[tony.c]

That fucking Johnson inflatable is peak arrogant triumphalism, rubbing people’s noses in it. Was it made by a newspaper or the Tories themselves?

Supposedly the £2,000 was raised by a group of Hartlepool 'business people' - presumably Tories.

 

[BobDavis]

It’s actually quite straightforward. Engage the Tories about the reconstruction of the economy post covid. Pledge a Biden style infrastructure plan (a mix of Keynesian boosterism for capital and relief for the most poor) covering broadband, transport, housing and health. Launch a town by town regeneration plan and hammer these on every leaflet and speech. If the Tories pledge x for a town Labour pledges to do more. Make a fulsome and genuine apology for the back turning on Brexit: and mean it. Set out a strategy to tackle poverty pay starting in the public sector. Continue to point out the Tories are a sleazy posh chumocracy. Emphasise the value of programmes and policies that benefit all sections of the working class with tailored messages for different demographics.

It’s pretty basic stuff.

It should not be too difficult for Labour to be more socialist that the Tories need to be to keep their promises. They should point out that despite Tory claims Corbyn‘s policies would bankrupt the country the Tories have spent far more due to Covid without bankrupting the country & also point out that national debt is not the same as personal debt. Tories have been socialist in the 50s & 60s though building huge amounts of council houses.

 

[philosophical]

Ok you can feel that the day after, but it’s not going to get you very far.

I have only a little time left anyway.
The Tories have been in power most of my life.
How far am I or anybody supposed to get?
Although I do like the idea of industrial action fuelled by hatred.
Tories don’t like that.

 

[butchersapron]

Hartlepool becomes the 12th (out of 65) constituency in the most deprived decile to return a tory MP.
It joins:

Blackpool South
Walsall North
Birmingham Northfield
Burnley
Great Grimsby
Stoke-on-Trent Central
West Bromwich West
Clacton
Blackpool North & Cleverleys
Bolton North East
& West Bromwich East

in that.

So what are you doing wrong?

 

[Dogsauce]

So what are you doing wrong?

not Twittering enough, obvs.

 

[BobDavis]

So what are you doing wrong?

Not promising to be more socialist than the Tories are promising to be.

 

[The39thStep]

It’s actually quite straightforward. Engage the Tories about the reconstruction of the economy post covid. Pledge a Biden style infrastructure plan (a mix of Keynesian boosterism for capital and relief for the most poor) covering broadband, transport, housing and health. Launch a town by town regeneration plan and hammer these on every leaflet and speech. If the Tories pledge x for a town Labour pledges to do more. Make a fulsome and genuine apology for the back turning on Brexit: and mean it. Set out a strategy to tackle poverty pay starting in the public sector. Continue to point out the Tories are a sleazy posh chumocracy. Emphasise the value of programmes and policies that benefit all sections of the working class with tailored messages for different demographics.

It’s pretty basic stuff.

This is good. Smart targeted tactics, locally tailored, something that a smart centrist or right Labour should be able to do. The left could add trade union involvement and empowering communities in these plans and local protests at companies firing and rehiring. Won't happen though, they haven't the intellectual capacity and savviness unless they import Bidens advisers. Labour are stale, stuck in marketing strategies that are out of date reliant on suits, pints of beer, 'gaining' trust and trying to look competent and safe. Obsessed with being seen to be hard on the left rather than benefiting from their energy but chaperoning them. In comparison, the Tories have been smart and bold tearing up the rulebook.
God helps us that we advocating that Labour needs to be Bidenised but that's how bad it is.

 

[Sue]

I have only a little time left anyway.
The Tories have been in power most of my life.
How far am I or anybody supposed to get?
Although I do like the idea of industrial action fuelled by hatred.
Tories don’t like that.

Why do you give a fuck about what Tories do or don't like?

 

[Mr Moose]

Khalid Mahmood’s ‘woke warriors’ comment getting a lot of coverage. It’s a readymade soundbite for the media’s favourite Labour narrative.

People with this view always hark back to a time Labour was less alienated from its base.

But Labour members have held views about a wide variety of issues at least since after WW2, CND, anti racism, feminism, gay rights etc. These are not a problem for potential voters who don’t care so much about them if the Labour Party is fighting their corner. It’s not doing so, but not because it loves BLM instead.

 

[brogdale]

So what are you doing wrong?

Not a question that those engaged in electoral opposition appear capable or willing to address.

 

[two sheds]

That fucking Johnson inflatable is peak arrogant triumphalism, rubbing people’s noses in it. Was it made by a newspaper or the Tories themselves?

I read was paid for by Hartlepool businesses who claimed they're not actually tory, just celebrating a new era type thing for Hartlepool. It's fucking naff though isn't it.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

God helps us that we advocating that Labour needs to be Bidenised but that's how bad it is.

100%

When you think about the serious figures on the centre right of the Labour Party in history, - like say Ernie Bevan or Jim Callahan and compare them in terms of their ability to enunciate an idea, their grasp of how power could be used and how they communicated in language that might resonate with all of its faults and contingencies - to the empty suits who inherited the mantle like Starmer then the extent of the decomposition/the collapse into itself becomes glaringly apparent.

It seems to me that Bidenisation is the last chance Labour has to avoid Pasokification or more likely without PR a zombie state accompanying a slow prolonged death. That is how bad it is.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Labour holds piss-up near brewery

Labour yesterday held a piss-up just round the corner from a brewery after failing to organise the event in the brewery itself.

newsthump.com

 

[philosophical]

Why do you give a fuck about what Tories do or don't like?

I hate them and want to piss them off any way possible.

 

[brogdale]

Fisher makes a valid point:

 

[two sheds]

Fisher makes a valid point:

All part of the 'unite and unify' the party. Sounds good but not at all what he had in mind when he said it.

 

[planetgeli]

if the tories had lost we'd all be talking about how clueless it was to parachute in a rich farmer with no links to the town. as it turns out candidate choice is waaaay down the list of mistakes the LP made on this.

Yeah, that's not quite what you said in post 11 of this thread replying to my 'Labour don't have a chance in hell of winning this.'

it doesn't look great for them looking at the 2019 figures, but it really depends who's standing, and the forces in play are different to 2019 - presumably Farage's new lot (Reform?) will be up, which will suck up a lot of the BP vote, and there isn't the 'lend the tories a vote to push through Brexit' current - difficult to balance up atm.

Starmer has been a complete stark bollock naked disaster for Labour. It wasn't difficult to know this before this election. Nothing changed in the last 6 weeks.

 

[killer b]

Yeah, that's not quite what you said in post 11 of this thread replying to my 'Labour don't have a chance in hell of winning this.'

I've changed my mind since post 11 on this thread. I do that sometimes

 

[Sasaferrato]

It’s actually quite straightforward. Engage the Tories about the reconstruction of the economy post covid. Pledge a Biden style infrastructure plan (a mix of Keynesian boosterism for capital and relief for the most poor) covering broadband, transport, housing and health. Launch a town by town regeneration plan and hammer these on every leaflet and speech. If the Tories pledge x for a town Labour pledges to do more. Make a fulsome and genuine apology for the back turning on Brexit: and mean it. Set out a strategy to tackle poverty pay starting in the public sector. Continue to point out the Tories are a sleazy posh chumocracy. Emphasise the value of programmes and policies that benefit all sections of the working class with tailored messages for different demographics.

It’s pretty basic stuff.

They wouldn't be believed.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

My understanding is that the tories have made a concerted effort to connect with people in communities up and down the country (as bizarre as that sounds) whereas labour haven't bothered.

And Rimbaud's point about the urban precariat and young voters is spot on. Plus, as I think has also been pointed out, like it or not - politics is atleast to some degree about personality, and Starmer and co don't have any. Also, unlike the likes of the tories and the SNP (who have both been successful), labour also appear to have no central theme to run on.

But even if they ticked all the boxes, there's no guarantee they would be successful, but would likely not get the trouncing they are currently on the receiving end of.

 

[Dogsauce]

Khalid Mahmood’s ‘woke warriors’ comment getting a lot of coverage. It’s a readymade soundbite for the media’s favourite Labour narrative.

People with this view always hark back to a time Labour was less alienated from its base.

But Labour members have held views about a wide variety of issues at least since after WW2, CND, anti racism, feminism, gay rights etc. These are not a problem for potential voters who don’t care so much about them if the Labour Party is fighting their corner. It’s not doing so, but not because it loves BLM instead.

It’s the new ‘Loony Left’ for the media, isn’t it? No attempt to discuss or challenge the ideas, just used as a pejorative, this is bad stuff kind of thing.

 

[Bus Honeygun]

As for the Greens - I knew some people through my previous line of work who worked for Brighton Council when it was Green, and did not have good things to say about how they treated their employees. The Greens get positive publicity because Caroline Lucas is a highly respected MP.

Yeah, I'm sure there are some good people in the Greens, but my personal experience of one of their most prominent representatives where I live is that of a hectoring, posh NIMBY, and I suspect she's not an outlier.

 

[editor]

 

[editor]

Fucking Corbyn.

 

[William of Walworth]

Has much been discussed earlier up about how much the Tory was helped by the absence of UKIP (or 2019 equivalent) standing this time in Hartlepool??

I'm sure I've missed a fair few posts, but as well as the Labour campaign's/Labour leader's total uselessness ( ), the Tory must have gained a big boost from the absence of a Farage-ist.

 

[David Clapson]

Angela Rayner sacked? WTF??? Whatever mistakes were made, weren't they down to Starmer? Does he really think that anyone will say "Good one, Keir, Angela was clearly holding you back." She's one of the very few well known faces and she ought to stand for leader instead of letting her friend Long-Bailey do it. Nobody likes her anyway.

 

[SlideshowBob]

Has much been discussed earlier up about how much the Tory was helped by the absence of UKIP (or 2019 equivalent) standing this time in Hartlepool??

I'm sure I've missed a fair few posts, but as well as the Labour campaign's/Labour leader's total uselessness ( ), the Tory must have gained a big boost from the absence of a Farage-ist.

Key aspect of it - the seat would've probably swung away from Labour in 2019 had their not been two right-wing parties splitting the vote. For a long time in certain seats disillusioned voters used UKIP to show their frustration because the Tories were still too toxic for them. But as time moves on the toxicity of the Tories for many has faded and they're willing to back them now.

 

[William of Walworth]

Angela Rayner sacked? WTF??? Whatever mistakes were made, weren't they down to Starmer? Does he really think that anyone will say "Good one, Keir, Angela was clearly holding you back." She's one of the very few well known faces and she ought to stand for leader instead of letting her friend Long-Bailey do it. Nobody likes her anyway.

Here's the BBC link to that story

 

[Larry O'Hara]

One of the good things about Corbyn's leadership was that he attracted young and radical-ish voters. I suspect that a lot of these have gone over to the Greens, or not bothered to vote.

I don't want to see Labour becoming that party of managerial 'centrist dad' types which under Starmer it is starting to do. (Maybe 'starting to' is an understatement).

As for the Greens - I knew some people through my previous line of work who worked for Brighton Council when it was Green, and did not have good things to say about how they treated their employees. The Greens get positive publicity because Caroline Lucas is a highly respected MP.

I was in the Greens for 25 years but left because their rightward drift/EUphilia disgusts me. And Caroline Lucas deserves no respect at all