I'm even an ex-Remainer myself, but the fact that we -- and hopefully other lefties, Labour or not --could find room to agree, is good
Hartlepool by-election
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
I'm even an ex-Remainer myself, but the fact that we -- and hopefully other lefties, Labour or not --could find room to agree, is good
Especially not in Hartlepool which is an elderly constituency.
I could see them doing quite well in younger more urban constituencies in the likes of Newcastle and Liverpool.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
do they now make up 59% of the remaining labour party membership?
ska invita
back on the other side
I hope so, but I doubt it. I expect Brexit isn't done, its only just begun. The Europe-question used to be a chain around the neck of the Tories. For them the chain is off and its now on Labour instead. There are many possible events on the horizon that will at each step ensure the issue will refuse to die.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
as i think i've said on another thread, i have a feeling that johnson and his chums will manufacture a row with the 'dastardly' EU over the legality of the british sausage (or something like that) every time they want a boost in the polls, or to distract from something...
Agree.
Labour, if even slightly sensible, could learn a bit from the one-and-only half-sensible thing that Cameron ever said (back sometime before 2010) -- "The Tories need to stop banging on about Europe"
But they didn't, and neither did he -- not that the Tories always lost from banging on about it ...
#SubjectChangeFromBoringEuroShitNow !!!
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I think Labour's stance on Brexit is a big part of the reason they are about to lose Hartlepool, not just because of the direct link to a leave voting constituency. It was also the lack of a stance, the ridiculous formulations they went through when trying to answer an interviewer's question on the subject ('our position remains unchanged... unless things change at the special conference... unlike the present government, we... blah...'). Throughout theresa may's parliamentary trials over brexit they wanted to play the ever so clever game of tempting enough tories to bring her down rather than take a stance. They carried on with that game so long that it would have been a shock to the system for them to come out with anything clear in 2019, so they didn't. Not surprisingly, a party that could say GET. BREXIT. DONE. has done rather well. This was all Sur Keith and his lot of course, but Corbyn was the one unable to come out with a simple coherent line.
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
Remain supporter here. Realistic one, mind.
(RE)-joining would mean doing so on very different terms. We'd have to join Schengen, we'd have to join the euro, we'd have to do a lot of things which we'd successfully negotiated against during our previous membership. Selling that to an instinctively anti-EU population would be impossible.
Were Scotland to gain her independence, and that's not looking likely either now, the same would be true. Not membership on Scotland's terms, but on the EU's agreed terms for any new applicant.
(RE)-joining would mean doing so on very different terms. We'd have to join Schengen, we'd have to join the euro, we'd have to do a lot of things which we'd successfully negotiated against during our previous membership. Selling that to an instinctively anti-EU population would be impossible.
Were Scotland to gain her independence, and that's not looking likely either now, the same would be true. Not membership on Scotland's terms, but on the EU's agreed terms for any new applicant.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
You'd think that NIP were advocating building some form of Berlin Wall
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
I mean, I'm no NIP supporter but I love that attempt at a snidy camp eye-roll moment at the end. Girl, please.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Joti Brar is super, super annoying.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
It's astonishing that her two minute peppery harangues haven't been rewarded with enthusiastic and near-unanimous support at the polling booths.
She's like an irritable chief librarian criticising dilatory and slapdash re-shelving efforts in a zoom meeting.
She's like an irritable chief librarian criticising dilatory and slapdash re-shelving efforts in a zoom meeting.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Former Brexit Party pilotless drone and "businessman" with a famous name, announces plans to stand as an independent.
Ralph Ward-Jackson says that both the main party candidates are at the beck and call of London-based HQs and don't understand Hartlepool. He knows this of course as he himself is based in, er, London.
He is the great nephew of his Victorian namesake, the person that founded West Hartlepool, previously a small fishing port and agricultural town, into a coal / iron town in the nineteenth century using tactics of extremely dubious legality. A "privateer". His aim was the build up Hartlepool as an "East Coast Liverpool" in Victorian times. Unsurprisingly the local Weatherspoon's joint on Church Street, near to his statue, is named after him.
Not so much an outright loon as an oddball candidate standing without any obvious platform or purpose. "My great uncle founded this place. Vote for me", not really being a terribly interesting platform on which to stand on anything beyond church warden level.
Ward-Jackson is the last candidate to roll under the descending shutters. Nominations closed today.
A tepid response to Joti Brar and "Andrew's" stern warnings on the NIP has presumably meant that the WPGB have decided that the balance of class forces is not in their favour and therefore, much to our collective sadness, there won't be a fearless advocate for the Juche philosophy on the East Durham coast this time. I reckon it's only a matter of time before a giant mural of Kim Jong-Il appears in Seaton Carew once the 3% of folk who will vote for the revanchist Bonaprtists of the NIP realise their fundamental error, and repent.
Ralph Ward-Jackson says that both the main party candidates are at the beck and call of London-based HQs and don't understand Hartlepool. He knows this of course as he himself is based in, er, London.
He is the great nephew of his Victorian namesake, the person that founded West Hartlepool, previously a small fishing port and agricultural town, into a coal / iron town in the nineteenth century using tactics of extremely dubious legality. A "privateer". His aim was the build up Hartlepool as an "East Coast Liverpool" in Victorian times. Unsurprisingly the local Weatherspoon's joint on Church Street, near to his statue, is named after him.
Not so much an outright loon as an oddball candidate standing without any obvious platform or purpose. "My great uncle founded this place. Vote for me", not really being a terribly interesting platform on which to stand on anything beyond church warden level.
Ward-Jackson is the last candidate to roll under the descending shutters. Nominations closed today.
A tepid response to Joti Brar and "Andrew's" stern warnings on the NIP has presumably meant that the WPGB have decided that the balance of class forces is not in their favour and therefore, much to our collective sadness, there won't be a fearless advocate for the Juche philosophy on the East Durham coast this time. I reckon it's only a matter of time before a giant mural of Kim Jong-Il appears in Seaton Carew once the 3% of folk who will vote for the revanchist Bonaprtists of the NIP realise their fundamental error, and repent.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
NIP didn’t get registered as a party in time so standing as an Independent . Workers Party seem to have written off Hartlepool .
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
who the fuck are the Heritage Party?
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
David curtens lot. Like Laurence fox but with more crazy church people
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Thank you. Only three candidates live in Hartlepool from a list of sixteen. With a fiercely partisan local electorate this will be a factor. I have a strange feeling the pub landlord (Killick) might do alright.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Don't know why they didn't go with 'Northeast Independence', just dropping 'party'?
Edit: I'm struggling to increase the size of that to the point where I can read it, but there already looks to be a North East Party??
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Sur Kieth himself taking charge of a machine gun nest, in a desperate last stand.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
Winning matters more to Starmer than it does to anyone else, He hasn't united the LP, he's just suppressed dissent which isn't the same thing. One failure probably won't cost him his position but it is certainly not going to make his life any easier.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Short answer, people in general do want to vote for the Tories. I'm 68. Fifty of those years haven't been under a Labour government.But a 20% rise in the Tory vote, in this Northern seat, isn't just about Starmer IMO (although obviously he's not fucking helping! At all!)
Why are the Tories (apparantly) being yet more popular here? Questions need to be asked directly about that.
And about why the fuck voters want to vote for the fucking Tories???
As I said much earlier in this thread, voters need to own their own shit decisions a lot more**, but that should be a separate thread probably ...
**NOT a suggested campaign slogan or strategy for anyone, btw
Short answer, people in general do want to vote for the Tories. I'm 68. Fifty of those years haven't been under a Labour government.
Not everywhere, and not to a 20%-rise-in-the-Tory-support level either.
I was specifically talking about one particular Hartlepool-only poll.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
All the Tories had to do was pick a local-ish candidate who wasn't mad, wasn't a gangster and didn't visibly have shite running down their leg. Which makes it a puzzle why they've chosen a posh North Yorkshire farmer type, who appears to know nothing about the constituency. That may yet be an own goal.
The embarrassment come from Labour having to mount a desperate, ragged-banner defence of a constituency they should be winning very comfortably, and the optics of the leadership being pressganged into canvassing and leaflet folding are very bad, too.
Will be 1500 votes either way I feel.
The embarrassment come from Labour having to mount a desperate, ragged-banner defence of a constituency they should be winning very comfortably, and the optics of the leadership being pressganged into canvassing and leaflet folding are very bad, too.
Will be 1500 votes either way I feel.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
Borough Council candidates also announced
Depressingly high populist / far right presence between a mixture of the Hartlepool Independent Union (ex Brexit Party), the Veterans and People's Party (hard right Brexiteers and Walter Mittys who have played footsie with the ex-Brexit Party and Tories) and the openly fascist "For Britain" standing in a few wards as well.
The wheezing half-dead carcass of the Socialist Labour Party has managed a couple of candidates but seem washed up. No NIP unless some of the listed independent folk are affiliated. Of the WPGB, their lack of candidates suggests a smug contentment with meta-level megaphone posturing and youtube diatribes.
Depressingly high populist / far right presence between a mixture of the Hartlepool Independent Union (ex Brexit Party), the Veterans and People's Party (hard right Brexiteers and Walter Mittys who have played footsie with the ex-Brexit Party and Tories) and the openly fascist "For Britain" standing in a few wards as well.
The wheezing half-dead carcass of the Socialist Labour Party has managed a couple of candidates but seem washed up. No NIP unless some of the listed independent folk are affiliated. Of the WPGB, their lack of candidates suggests a smug contentment with meta-level megaphone posturing and youtube diatribes.
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