The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The Guardian and its agents has influence everywhere William.
Hartlepool by-election
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
OK so he's complaining that someone else's protest is more of a protest than the one he's making?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
They've mopped up 4/5 of the former UKIP vote and obviously held onto a large % of the first time I've ever voted Tory/my old Dad would be turning in his grave/just this once to get Brexit done vote from 2019.But a 20% rise in the Tory vote, in this Northern seat, isn't just about Starmer IMO (although obviously he's not fucking helping! At all!)
Why are the Tories (apparantly) being yet more popular here? Questions need to be asked directly about that.
And about why the fuck voters want to vote for the fucking Tories???
As I said much earlier in this thread, voters need to own their own shit decisions a lot more**, but that should be a separate thread probably ...
**NOT a suggested campaign slogan or strategy for anyone, btw
rekil
to menny cranks
'They have turned the weans against us.'
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Something that you talk about in the pub after a few beers. That's my favourite type of discussion tbh.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
The lack of self-awareness that you mention, the mumbling incoherence, and that fucking ear worm all made for a laughable watch. Particulalrly as they don't even have a candidate in the race (yet)
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not sure they're ready for his candidacy
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Not quite sure if you are being serious?
Anyway, I'm not as enthused as some people on here about the NIP, but expected them to be polling higher than this. It's just about the perfect opportunity for them - a period of Labour decline generally and Lord Keith even more so; a constituency with a history of electing independents; a residual level of pro-devolution sentiment (that John Prescott completely misjudged with his woeful proposals back in 2003 or whenever the referendum was). Also, it's a by election, again, the kind of territory that should be good for new parties with a 'USP'. The big trend here is of course the tories looking like they'll win it, but I'm actually surprised that Labour's vote looks to be holding up at all.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
It's not totally surprising that the Tories are doing that well, Outside Scotland they are effectively the only serious political party left, Labour is not so much a party as several disparate groups in the same place stood around sulking and not talking to each other.But a 20% rise in the Tory vote, in this Northern seat, isn't just about Starmer IMO (although obviously he's not fucking helping! At all!
Why are the Tories (apparantly) being yet more popular here? Questions need to be asked directly about that.
And about why the fuck voters want to vote for the fucking Tories???
As I said much earlier in this thread, voters need to own their own shit decisions a lot more**, but that should be a separate thread probably ...
**NOT a suggested campaign slogan or strategy for anyone, btw
As for the LibDems, I keep thinking they must hit the bottom soon but nope still in free fall.
Not really no. Obviously I am correct
I mean I don't think I'm enthused beyond wishing them well and thinking that people with no funding and little time to have made much impression are doing okNot quite sure if you are being serious?
Anyway, I'm not as enthused as some people on here about the NIP, but expected them to be polling higher than this. It's just about the perfect opportunity for them - a period of Labour decline generally and Lord Keith even more so; a constituency with a history of electing independents; a residual level of pro-devolution sentiment (that John Prescott completely misjudged with his woeful proposals back in 2003 or whenever the referendum was). Also, it's a by election, again, the kind of territory that should be good for new parties with a 'USP'. The big trend here is of course the tories looking like they'll win it, but I'm actually surprised that Labour's vote looks to be holding up at all.
I realise everyone on here is jaded and about 102 years old but honestly
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Just got an invite to comment on their Minifesto but no document attached 
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
For me, getting 2% in a poll (or ballot) is marginally better than the local weirdo or 'independent' who nobody has heard of. It suggests there are real people planning to vote for NIP's platform - as opposed to the random noise you might get in any survey - but is just about the lowest level of active support you can get.
For me, we are in varying gradations of awfulness at the moment. I'm not into parliamentary politics, but would still prefer Labour hold onto this seat. If Labour were to lose this seat I'd prefer it was with NIP getting a good showing. It would be a shot across the bows, though I still don't think Labour could even conceive of tacking left as a result. Behind all this is the failure of Corbynism. He and Momentum plonked a version of social democracy down and hoped people would go for it. They couldn't take the leap in the dark and think about using the hundreds of thousands of new members to build something in communities. Hartlepool is lost because of the long term failure of the Labour Party.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
They've only been going a few weeks haven't they? I mean if I'm honest I don't expect much to come of it longer term but I still wouldn't be reading much into them not having become massive just yet.
ska invita
back on the other side
theyve yet to start campaigning / spending money supposedly
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
That’s it in a nutshell. Labour aren’t, and more importantly (from their perspective) aren’t perceived to be, a serious organisation any more. The interesting thing about that CWU poll is that there remains a significant element of the electorate in Hartlepool who might vote along social democratic lines but don’t have a realistic option to vote for.
I’d also add that Brexit - and Labour’s position on it - was a moment of departure for a significant segment of lifelong Labour voters that had always voted for the party. Winning those votes back will be a tough task: even if a serious programme is put before the electorate. Under the current leadership and with the palpable divides: intersecting in countless ways, there’s no chance....
I agree with pretty much all of that, but I would speculate -- speculate!! -- that Brexit won't remain the biggest election and political subject for ever, or even for all that long necessarily.
The biggest future "hope" for leftish Labour people is surely for the Tories to fuck up further.
Also, obviously, for even a mildly social-dem type Lab manifesto to look better than more Toryism. I appreciate that moderation at that shit level is boring and inadequate, but .....
In other words, Brexit needs to stop being so important in elections and wider politics.
Fuck knows how that will happen, and the way Labour and the useless Starmer are going ATM, is a hindrance not a help.
Still, the Tories fucking up over Brexit -- and everything!! -- might?? happen sooner.
There's also the imperative that (some!) voters stop being so fucking ready to vote Tory. The twunts!
These
's of mine apologise for their influence on this input .... 
Short version 
: The Fucking Tories are still going to Fucking Win this Fucking Hartlepool By-Election!!!
Sort it out and surprise us please, events ....
: The Fucking Tories are still going to Fucking Win this Fucking Hartlepool By-Election!!! Sort it out and surprise us please, events ....
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
It’s not the issue - Brexit is done and dusted. It’s the recognition and/or confirmation that Labour was fully prepared to dismiss an embedded section of its support and actively undermine their decision. A perceived stab in the back that will be repaid - in spades.
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Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
I agree with that too, but will that factor last for ever?
For it not to, depends (hugely? -- and don't think I'm optimistic) on Labour sorting their shit out -- but also, on the Tories fucking up big style too, IMO.
Shortest I'm capable of
59% or many more of Labour members should want the subject to be fucking changed -- Brexit is boring!
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
59% or many more of Labour members should want the subject to be fucking changed -- Brexit is boring!
Brexit is done. It’s only nostalgia laden ultras like Adonis who want to keep the debate going. An increasingly weird, otherworldly and out of step group are continuity remain.
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