Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[agricola]

What all this leaves out is that the underlying problem is the ongoing occupation by Israel of West Bank and Gaza.

Plus the fact that Israel was built of removing Palestinians form their land or taking it over since 48. And Palestinians haven't gone away. Nor have they been completely defeated by Israel. Resistance takes many forms ( violent and non violent) and they still are resisting.

Hamas are not purely Iranian proxies either.

Indeed. I see that Gantz said that they would respond at a time of their own choosing, and focus on building a regional alliance in the meantime (although Gallant said international alliance).

The only way that a regional alliance would ever happen (and I think its profoundly unlikely anyway) would be with an immediate ceasefire and real steps towards a viable two-state solution or some other means to grant the Palestinians a decent future of their own choosing. Hopefully reality will dawn over Jerusalem soon.

 

[Bingoman]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-summons-british-french-german-ambassadors-over-double-standards-2024-04-14/

 

[teqniq]

Amidst all the misery and suffering, every now and again there's something to smile about:

 

[Bingoman]

Amidst all the misery and suffering, every now and again there's something to smile about:

I didn't know Volkswagen did convertibles

 

[Mezzer]

I didn't know Volkswagen did convertibles

Much as I dislike levity in a thread like this: surely the VW Beetle convertible is pretty much iconic and of world renown?

 

[Raheem]

They were very successful in converting terrible polluting diesel cars into apparently magnificently efficient diesel cars.

 

[Gromit]

I didn't know Volkswagen did convertibles

Much as I dislike levity in a thread like this: surely the VW Beatle convertible is pretty much iconic and of world renown?

VW did Karmann Cabriolet models.

Beetle convertibles are where others have taken regular beetles and converted them. Not done by VW.

/EndClassicVWNerd

p.s. I once witnessed someone roofchop a Beetle (at a show) in under 10 minutes.
It wasn't pretty but it was fast

 

[teqniq]

* sigh * there was a Golf convertible as well /derail.

 

[Gromit]

The attack by Iran wasn't a real attack. It was cheap drones whose purpose was to cost Israel a fuck ton of money by shooting them down.

If Israel paint this as a real attack it will be for political reasons and to ramp.up hostility. I hope they get talked out of it and accept their medicine.

 

[Gramsci]

Indeed. I see that Gantz said that they would respond at a time of their own choosing, and focus on building a regional alliance in the meantime (although Gallant said international alliance).

The only way that a regional alliance would ever happen (and I think its profoundly unlikely anyway) would be with an immediate ceasefire and real steps towards a viable two-state solution or some other means to grant the Palestinians a decent future of their own choosing. Hopefully reality will dawn over Jerusalem soon.

I see from this article that without regional support Israel would have had more damage done to it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/a-middle-east-defense-alliance-is-as-vital-for-israel-as-the-air-we-breathe/amp/

Article says this time Biden told Netanyahu no reprisal attack on Iran

The support Israel gets and when it's required Biden saying no to Israel is in sharp contest to how the people of Gaza have been "supported"

This is such bollox.

Apparently this country took part. Why? Why is this country giving Israel support after what its done to Gaza.

 

[teqniq]

The attack by Iran wasn't a real attack. It was cheap drones whose purpose was to cost Israel a fuck ton of money by shooting them down.

If Israel paint this as a real attack it will be for political reasons and to ramp.up hostility. I hope they get talked out of it and accept their medicine.

Yet another analysis thread by somebody else. Very upbeat from the Iranian perspective. Also contains the tweet I C&P'd in post #12533:

Thread by @IbnRiad on Thread Reader App

@IbnRiad: [THREAD:🧵🇮🇷 THE IRANIAN RETALIATION]: The Iranian retaliation to the occupation's flagrant, illegal aggression against the Iranian consulate in Damascus came last night, and it was resoundingly successful a...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[dylanredefined]

I see from this article that without regional support Israel would have had more damage done to it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/a-middle-east-defense-alliance-is-as-vital-for-israel-as-the-air-we-breathe/amp/

Article says this time Biden told Netanyahu no reprisal attack on Iran

The support Israel gets and when it's required Biden saying no to Israel is in sharp contest to how the people of Gaza have been "supported"

This is such bollox.

Apparently this country took part. Why? Why is this country giving Israel support after what its done to Gaza.

Not getting a nuke on Iran seems possibly a good idea.

 

[Karl Masks]

The attack by Iran wasn't a real attack. It was cheap drones whose purpose was to cost Israel a fuck ton of money by shooting them down.

If Israel paint this as a real attack it will be for political reasons and to ramp.up hostility. I hope they get talked out of it and accept their medicine.

Someone on twitter who is apparently an expert was theorising that Iran's goal was to test and get info on the defences

 

[Larry O'Hara]

It's pretty sick how Palestine was left to be destroyed by Israel and nobody intervened.

Exactly: the contrast is sickening

And that pig fucker Cameron calling on Iran to de-escalate while arming the IDF

 

[agricola]

Yet another analysis thread by somebody else. Very upbeat from the Iranian perspective. Also contains the tweet I C&P'd in post #12533:

Thread by @IbnRiad on Thread Reader App

@IbnRiad: [THREAD:🧵🇮🇷 THE IRANIAN RETALIATION]: The Iranian retaliation to the occupation's flagrant, illegal aggression against the Iranian consulate in Damascus came last night, and it was resoundingly successful a...…

threadreaderapp.com

Not sure about a lot of that, and the point about regular jets not being able to shoot down Shaheds in a "real war scenario" is just nonsense.

 

[Gromit]

Yet another analysis thread by somebody else. Very upbeat from the Iranian perspective. Also contains the tweet I C&P'd in post #12533:

Thread by @IbnRiad on Thread Reader App

@IbnRiad: [THREAD:🧵🇮🇷 THE IRANIAN RETALIATION]: The Iranian retaliation to the occupation's flagrant, illegal aggression against the Iranian consulate in Damascus came last night, and it was resoundingly successful a...…

threadreaderapp.com

I wish I could confirm or deny that analysis.

During the gulf war the western press collaborated with the western military to exaggerate the effectiveness of the patriot missile system's effectiveness to defend Israel.

So they have form about lying about umbrella defense systems to avoid unwanted escalation.

 

[discokermit]

The attack by Iran wasn't a real attack. It was cheap drones whose purpose was to cost Israel a fuck ton of money by shooting them down.

If Israel paint this as a real attack it will be for political reasons and to ramp.up hostility. I hope they get talked out of it and accept their medicine.

it was a real attack. they told the israelis and the americans they were going to hit the airbase and did. that was the point, not to cause damage but to show israel they could overwhelm their defences, which they did.

 

[Gromit]

it was a real attack. they told the israelis and the americans they were going to hit the airbase and did. that was the point, not to cause damage but to show israel they could overwhelm their defences, which they did.

What is your source that they were informed and what is your source that it was hit please?

Not claiming you are wrong. Just interested in your source.

 

[Karl Masks]

Given how intensely Germany supports Israel and how vocal Ireland and Spain appear to be in their opposition for Israel, or at least support for Palestinains, could the conflict cause structural issues for the EU?

 

[discokermit]

What is your source that they were informed and what is your source that it was hit please?

Not claiming you are wrong. Just interested in your source.

don't know where i read it, to be honest. that the airbase was hit is on wikipedia.
i just remember reading that everyone involved was made aware of the targets because at the time i thought thats a shit way to respond, warning people before striking. but, like i say, damage wasnt the aim, just showing they could do it.

there is a quote on wiki but its not very specific," According to Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, 72 hours before the attack, the regional countries hosting US military bases were informed by Iran regarding the eminent Iranian attack."

 

[Gramsci]

Given how intensely Germany supports Israel and how vocal Ireland and Spain appear to be in their opposition for Israel, or at least support for Palestinains, could the conflict cause structural issues for the EU?

I do not know about structural issues but frankly listening to Spanish leader and then looking at what German State and elected politicians have been doing there is no middle ground.

In this interview the PM for Spain Sanchez, centre left moderate politician , comes across as the voice of reason compared to to the German state and its politicians. As posted on protest thread German state has just closed down a conference on Palestine with some German politicians likening support for Palestinians to be equivalent to being an "Islamist". With Jewish people being arrested at conference. German state and its elected politicians have become so far out on this. Supporting Palestinians equals anti semitism. Including those who are Jewish and attended conference. It's bonkers.

Makes Sanchez sound reasonable. And he comes across very well in interview. Putting a rational case which is not full of histrionics as in Germany

In this country he would get torn apart for what he's saying.

In practise , in any other time, it would be reasonable middle of the ground, position to take. Two state solution/ peace talks including all sides/ not giving more arms to Israel at this time/ recognising Palestinian state sooner rather than later/ follow international law

 

[Raheem]

Given how intensely Germany supports Israel and how vocal Ireland and Spain appear to be in their opposition for Israel, or at least support for Palestinains, could the conflict cause structural issues for the EU?

Think the EU can be as divided as it likes on foreign policy so long as no EU country is directly impacted. As far as "structural issues" go anyway.

 

[Aladdin]

Given how intensely Germany supports Israel and how vocal Ireland and Spain appear to be in their opposition for Israel, or at least support for Palestinains, could the conflict cause structural issues for the EU?

Ireland is anti the mass murder of 33000 people and starvation of potentially 1.3 million people.
The majority of people in Ireland would wish for a 2 state solution though and the vast majority would not want Israel to disappear. They're not anti Israel as a concept or country.. just anti what Netanyahu et al are doing. At least I get that impression..

 

[2hats]

Yet another analysis

What sort of 'analysis' do you think you end up with, where said 'analysis' is significantly predicated on flawed analyses by authors who are clearly struggling with the physics regimes they are attempting to interpret? Some of them aren't even considering the range of possibilities that could lead to the outcomes observed. Basic stuff. There's been a lot of guff 'analysis' in the MSM by talking heads, as well as in SM, the past 24 hours. Some ill-informed drivel broadcast on Sky and BBC ("Verify" am looking at you), almost amusing.

Separately, WSJ via DoD sources: upwards of 50% of the ~130 IRGC MRBM launch attempts last night ended in launch failure/crash prior to reaching Israeli airspace. Consequently, less than half of those launch detections necessitated interception.

 

[Ax^]

Given how intensely Germany supports Israel and how vocal Ireland and Spain appear to be in their opposition for Israel, or at least support for Palestinains, could the conflict cause structural issues for the EU?

hmm Germany have a slight issues criticising Israel

is their some sort of historical significance behind this reluctance

whilst not right .. both spain and ireland have been accused of supporting hamas or being antisemitic for their criticism of the response to Oct 7
Germany got a odd line to walk in this but as with the rest of the EU and England should be stopping the sales of arms

 

[tim]

Germany got a odd line to walk in this but as with the rest of the EU and England should be stopping the sales of arms

England is not a political entity.

 

[Ax^]

the UK if you must same sentiment

Germany not want to be called supporters of hamas or antisemitic was my main angle

 

[Raheem]

It doesn't look like America are going to propose a condemnatory UNSC resolution, which I think feels pretty significant.

 

[Rimbaud]

Will be interesting to see if Netanyahu is mad enough to try to escalate this despite presumably stern words from Biden not to.

 

[TopCat]

it’s estimated that repelling the attack cost $1 billion.
The US shot down over eighty drones and missiles . How sustainable is this for Israel?