Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[equationgirl]

there ain't much English soil that ain't got blood on it

it'll be a new build probably more tastefully suggested in about a years time when things are less mental....the amount of spin around is appalling. Grenfell was previously clad in asbestos....

We need rain.

And yet various battlefield sites around the country are not built on...

Councils around the UK have plenty of other options for building less likely to cause general outrage than on sites where many people have died. Including Kensington.

 

[equationgirl]

Not disputing it, but that seems a bit odd, they were able to correctly identify 9/11 victims from the smallest fragments of bones, and DNA samples of relatives.

Edit to add, considering that some residents may well have been here, say, illegally, or as refugees, I just realised that it may be impossible to do the above.

Depending on the heat of the fire at its worst, sadly there may not be anything left to identify

Extreme heat also degrades DNA, so remains may not yield a useful DNA sample.

 

[maomao]

Srsly. Are you expecting everyone here to have done the knowledge?

It's Pudding Lane.

The Great Fire of London burnt down 13,000 houses and the whole city would have had to be moved to avoid building on its ruins.

 

[Raheem]

It's Pudding Lane.

The Great Fire of London burnt down 13,000 houses and the whole city would have had to be moved to avoid building on its ruins.

I know what it is. Just commenting on the posting of a photo of anonymous office blocks without explanation.

 

[equationgirl]

It's Pudding Lane.

The Great Fire of London burnt down 13,000 houses and the whole city would have had to be moved to avoid building on its ruins.

It's pudding Lane in 2008, according to the wiki page it's borrowed from.

 

[dessiato]

I'm not sure that posting pics of Pudding Lane is necessary, nor appropriate on this thread. It seems very insensitive.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I was doing the same thing yesterday evening and summarised my clumsy findings in a couple of posts on here. Natalie's work is much more helpful and thorough. Her tweeting also goes beyond the 2013 power surge issue and looks at KCTMO's general performance with regard to Grenfell Tower.

If digging for information on the power surge issue, a difficulty is that the KCTMO minutes on their website only go back to the November 2013 meeting which is covered in the minutes published in January 2014. The power surges took place in May 2013. In other words, there will be one or two KCTMO meetings which took place between May 2013 and October 2013 which aren't available on the KCTMO site but which will undoubtedly have more info on the then more current power surge issue.

Having said that, there is another half-buried source of useful information here:

RBKC Committees > Home > Housing and Property Scrutiny Committee.

These are the meeting minutes for the RBKCC Housing and Property Scrutiny Committee. They start in July 2013 and cover the power surge issue in more detail. That link was difficult to find, it has much more info on the power surge issue and Natalie hasn't referred to it in any of her posts so I doubt if she has seen it. I don't Twitter or Facebook so would be extremely grateful if you could try to make her aware of it.

If anyone is still reading this post then my summary of the power surge issue is as follows... several surges took place in May 2013, 45 residents were affected by damage to appliances within their flats, a fault with an incoming mains cable was discovered and fixed but the even one and a half months later (July 2013) the Housing and Property Scrutiny Committee admit they aren't sure if the primary source of the problem had been rectified, KCTMO advised the affected residents to make claims on their own contents insurance policies but also seemingly made a claim on the KCTMO policy [Casual Observer thinks that's illegal but never mind], 25 of the 45 residents did make a claim via the KCTMO policy with Zurich Insurance but Zurich Insurance refused to pay out claiming KCTMO had done what could be reasonably expected of them to maintain the electrics in good order, KCTMO then offered to pay the affected residents £200 each (which they admit would not have covered the damaged items in many cases). There is also mention of more electric work being scheduled for later that July.

In other words, we know that RBKC and KCTMO are cunts but we can add Zurich Insurance to the list as well.

Fun fact not really related to this post: Ian Bone used to live in Grenfell Tower

It wouldn't be illegal to claim on both your own insurance & KCTMO's insurance, but it would be illegal to take payment from both, as that would be making a profit, the correct thing to do is:

1 - Claim on your own insurance, that company can then claim against KCTMO's insurance company to recover their costs, if they think they have a case.

2 - If you don't have your own insurance, attempt to claim on KCTMO's insurance.

I assume KCTMO's insurance was a liability policy, and therefore only pays out if negligence by KCTMO is proven. Power surges can occur from internal & external sources, clearly if it was external it is unlikely to have anything to do with KCTMO. If internal it could be as a result of negligence by KCTMO, but not necessarily.

Liability insurance only covers any claims/costs resulting from legal liabilities incurred by the insured, similiar to the third party part of a car insurance policy.

TBH it would be interesting to find out what KCTMO told Zurich in order for them to come to that conclusion.

It would indeed, assuming the electrics were up to date & signed-off, that could be considered all that was reasonably expected of KCTMO, and therefore proving any negligence, if indeed there was any, would be very difficult.

-----

Power surges are not uncommon, and a surge of just 10 volts can burn out microprocessors that are in most household electrical goods, such as TVs, cordless phones, computers, microwaves, dishwashers, washing machines and refrigerators.

The fact that it's widely reported that a fridge caused this fire means a power surge could have been the issue, although that would seem unlikely if other appliances in the block were not affected. More likely to be an issue with the fridge itself. Of course, none of this explains why it spread so fast, which remains the main issue.

 

[Voley]

Ah right. I thought it was probably Kings Cross.

 

[yardbird]

Makes you think -
Whirlpool called to account over 4m fire-risk dryers still not fixed

 

[Treacle Toes]

site of a worse London fire.

..and how is this site comparable? Seriously, get a grip. You disagree with a memorial park, so what. Thankfully, the final decision won't be yours.

 

[killer b]

look at this cuntfop:
View attachment 109620

Turns out I was reading about this guy's mum recently, he isn't the first member of the family to enter politics - his mum once ran for parliament advocating drilling into your head for better mental health. Here's one of her election posters.

I actually have a t-shirt with a picture of her on it... She's interviewed in Vice (where else?) here.

 

[stethoscope]

..and how is this site comparable? Seriously, get a grip. You disagree with a memorial park, so what. Thankfully, the final decision won't be yours.

I had the same thought as you yesterday Ruts, eventually turning the site into a public memorial garden would be the most fitting.

 

[andysays]

I had the same thought as you yesterday Ruts, eventually turning the site into a public memorial garden would be the most fitting.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, but I suggest it would be even more fitting if the various problems around social housing and wider issues were adequetely dealt with.

Which is not to say that both aren't possible, but questions around the future of the site don't seem paramount ATM, IMO.

 

[stethoscope]

.

 

[equationgirl]

It wouldn't be illegal to claim on both your own insurance & KCTMO's insurance, but it would be illegal to take payment from both, as that would be making a profit, the correct thing to do is:

1 - Claim on your own insurance, that company can then claim against KCTMO's insurance company to recover their costs, if they think they have a case.

2 - If you don't have your own insurance, attempt to claim on KCTMO's insurance.

I assume KCTMO's insurance was a liability policy, and therefore only pays out if negligence by KCTMO is proven. Power surges can occur from internal & external sources, clearly if it was external it is unlikely to have anything to do with KCTMO. If internal it could be as a result of negligence by KCTMO, but not necessarily.

Liability insurance only covers any claims/costs resulting from legal liabilities incurred by the insured, similiar to the third party part of a car insurance policy.



It would indeed, assuming the electrics were up to date & signed-off, that could be considered all that was reasonably expected of KCTMO, and therefore proving any negligence, if indeed there was any, would be very difficult.

-----

Power surges are not uncommon, and a surge of just 10 volts can burn out microprocessors that are in most household electrical goods, such as TVs, cordless phones, computers, microwaves, dishwashers, washing machines and refrigerators.

The fact that a fridge caused this fire means a power surge could have been the issue, although that would seem unlikely if other appliances in the block were not affected. More likely to be an issue with the fridge itself. Of course, none of this explains why it spread so fast, which remains the main issue.

The cause of this fire has not yet been ascertained, therefore please remove that assertion from your post. It is misleading to post such things.

 

[Manter]

She made it in the context of a pro-Assange rant apparently.

More of a love letter than a rant. It's hysterical. Why My Heart Stands With Julian

Even assange seemed mildly taken aback

 

[Manter]

On Friday I heard k and c council had been in touch with Newcastle about taking people. It was from somebody who works in housing, so reliable afaik.

I ended up in a discussion with someone who works for K&C on twitter last night who denied that anyone had been given just £10, anyone was without housing and anyone had been asked/told/pressured to move north. Relatively junior, so not a high up coverup. Said his colleagues from the council were working 16-20 hour days

 

[cupid_stunt]

The cause of this fire has not yet been ascertained, therefore please remove that assertion from your post. It is misleading to post such things.

You are right, I've edited it to include 'The fact that it's widely reported that a fridge caused this fire'.

The deadly fire that broke out at Grenfell Tower was caused by a faulty fridge in a fourth-floor apartment, reports suggest.

The flat’s owner, said to be mini-cab driver Behailu Kebede, reportedly attempted to warn other residents about the blaze in his kitchen, potentially saving lives.

Neighbours told how Mr Kebede, a father of one, immediately raised the alarm after discovering the fire in his flat, which was number 16 in the 24-story block, as well as contacting the police and fire services.

Grenfell Tower fire caused by faulty fridge on fourth floor, reports suggest

 

[Casual Observer]

TMOs are run by volunteers. As with all community organisations some work well and some don't.

That's not the case. The KCTMO has a non-executive board but there are also four executive directors who run the company and are paid a salary. There will also be staff at KCTMO beneath the four executives who are also paid a salary. To describe TMOs as being run by volunteers is misleading.

 

[Pickman's model]

The new MP when she was a Cllr was on the board of the TMO.

TMOs are common in London. In theory they give tenants greater say in the management of there estates. The Council retaining the ownership.

I know one estate near me where the tenants have had to fight the Council to keep there right to manage. They don't trust the Council. It helps protect them from the Council looking to regenerate there estate. Which they see as the Council (Lambeth) getting rid of social housing.

TMOs are run by volunteers. As with all community organisations some work well and some don't.

So I wouldn't want to condemn idea of tenant management outright.

I also think some media reporting has been mixing up the TMO and the Council.

The new MP has been doing that. Even though she spent several years on the board of the TMO. From 2008 to 2012.

Other tmos are run by vols

 

[Who PhD]

If you don't like the skwawkbox this may not be for you, but if true it's (more of the same) scandalous.

#KCBC: ‘if you accept temporary flats, you’re off rehoming list’ #Grenfell

 

[Artaxerxes]

site of a worse London fire.

Less deaths (officially at least)

 

[equationgirl]

You are right, I've edited it to include 'The fact that it's widely reported that a fridge caused this fire'.

It's at present a myth that's being perpetuated by the media. The guy is being hounded by the media on a rumour and you repeating it does nothing to help.

Besides , whatever the cause was, the building should not have turned into a towering inferno within minutes. The cause may turn out to be largely irrelevant.

 

[free spirit]

You are right, I've edited it to include 'The fact that it's widely reported that a fridge caused this fire'.

The liability doesn't stem from the way the fire started, it stems from the way the fire spread up the outside of the building via the cladding that had been installed to the lowest possible standard to cut costs.

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's at present a myth that's being perpetuated by the media. The guy is being hounded by the media on a rumour and you repeating it does nothing to help.

Besides , whatever the cause was, the building should not have turned into a towering inferno within minutes. The cause may turn out to be largely irrelevant.

Neighbours have been interviewed both on the TV & in the press saying he knocked on their doors saying a fridge fire had started in his kitchen, I see no reason to disbelieve them. His friends have also been reported saying he is “haunted” by what happened and blaming himself, when clearly the blame is not his. I feel sorry for the guy.

The fact that a copy of rags, the Mail & Sun, have been bang out of order in hounding him hasn't stopped more reasonable news sources reporting the story.

The liability doesn't stem from the way the fire started, it stems from the way the fire spread up the outside of the building via the cladding that had been installed to the lowest possible standard to cut costs.

Of course it doesn't, it should have been contained, that's why I finished my post, which was in response to a post regarding power surges in the block, with 'Of course, none of this explains why it spread so fast, which remains the main issue.'

 

[Pickman's model]

If you don't like the skwawkbox this may not be for you, but if true it's (more of the same) scandalous.

#KCBC: ‘if you accept temporary flats, you’re off rehoming list’ #Grenfell

yes let's spread rumours

 

[Treacle Toes]

Ishmahil BlagroveFollow
11 hrs ·
on will be led by survivors and victims of the tragedy, Michael Mansfield QC, Emma Dent Coad MP, religious leaders from various faiths and representatives of the police, fire and emergency services. We will be outlining the objectives of the campaign, what we expect from the government and how we intend to move forward as a community and begin the healing process. We are asking that everyone who attends remain composed, dignified and respectful in memory of those who have passed. This will be the launch of a peaceful campaign with the aim of bringing unity, equality and most importantly, Justice

 

[cupid_stunt]

Police have just announced they now believe 79 to be dead.

But, that figure may change.

 

[frogwoman]

 

[Pickman's model]

Police have just announced they now believe 79 to be dead.

But, that figure may change.

sadly unlikely to be downwards