Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

May has said that everyone will be found a home in RBKC or a neighbouring borough within the next three weeks, I realise her promises are as honest as a £9 note but a Tory council may be reluctant to make a liar of her whilst all this crap is still out in the light of day

Who knows how long May's writ may run, hours or days

 

[Treacle Toes]

After this block is taken down nothing short of a memorial park /green space/ etc will do on the site.

 

[teqniq]

more car crash shit

Two women feared dead in Grenfell Tower were 'threatened with legal action' for raising alarm about fire safety

 

[JTG]

2 a Labour MP was elected into that constituency only after last week's General Election, after being a tory safe seat for decades. And it remains a tory Council.

In fact, between 1997 and 2010 North Kensington was part of the Regents Park & Kensington North constituency which elected a Labour MP every time.

The old Kensington seat was Tory from 1974 when it was created until 1997 when it was abolished. It was replaced by RP & KN (above) and Kensington & Chelsea which was very safe Tory. In 2010 Kensington was revived, Regents Park moving into Westminster North & Chelsea becoming part of Fulham & Chelsea.

As you can guess from all this, Kensington is considerably less safe Tory (as we saw a week and a half ago) than K & C was. But it's incorrect to say North Kensington has been represented by Tory MPs for decades. It hasn't.

 

[gosub]

After this block is taken down nothing short of a memorial park /green space/ etc will do on the site.

cos theres loads of other available land in Kensington for social housing

 

[Mation]

It's Pilgrim Tucker - myself and Mation went to school with her - she's a community coordinator for Unite and was working with the Grenfell action group, organising and campaigning, along with the multitude of other campaigns she's involved with.

She's brilliant. I met her last week for the first time in over 30 years as I saw her name in a Labour Party email and thought that there couldn't be many Pilgrim Tuckers in this world!

 

[B.I.G]

cos theres loads of other available land in Kensington for social housing

Harsh.

 

[DaveCinzano]

She's brilliant. I met her last week for the first time in over 30 years as I saw her name in a Labour Party email and thought that there couldn't be many Pilgrim Tuckers in this world!

You knew her when you were a toddler?

 

[gosub]

Harsh.

This mess ain't going to be easy to unpick. And thats with semi competent people who weren't more interested in arse covering. -the number of blocks that they now have to look at nationally is in the thousands

 

[equationgirl]

cos theres loads of other available land in Kensington for social housing

That's not really the point though here - the point being made, and I agree with it, is that it wouldn't be right to rebuild housing on that particular site. A site where a large number of people have died through no fault of their own.

Let there be a garden of remembrance with a memorial to all those who perished as a mark of respect to them.

Whether or not there are a large number of spare sites available for building new social housing is a separate issue - sites could be bought from those in private hands, for example, or even subjected to compulsory purchase. Hell, the Queen might even be persuaded to give some away.

 

[gosub]

I'd rather a task of some magnitude was done, rather than made harder.

 

[B.I.G]

Remembrance is very important.

 

[gosub]

site of a worse London fire.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

This is a bit fucking spooky:

holy fuck.

 

[equationgirl]

I'd rather a task of some magnitude was done, rather than made harder.

They will need to keep the site intact for some time for investigative reasons, for a start. Never mind then clearing the site.

There is nothing to stop the council finding a new site for new buildings tomorrow, and starting the rebuilding process within the borough elsewhere.

 

[gosub]

They will need to keep the site intact for some time for investigative reasons, for a start. Never mind then clearing the site.

There is nothing to stop the council finding a new site for new buildings tomorrow, and starting the rebuilding process within the borough elsewhere.

whole thing, if undertaken seriously, will be a decade of building juggling.

 

[equationgirl]

site of a worse London fire.

There's a monument there too - no housing though iirc.

So you fail to make your own point.

 

[equationgirl]

whole thing, if undertaken seriously, will be a decade of building juggling.

It may yet be found that these people died due to corporate manslaughter. Would you live somewhere you knew people had perished so horrifically?

 

[gosub]

There's a monument there too - no housing though iirc.

So you fail to make your own point.

well if you want an office block instead of social housing (either could wear a plaque) thats down to you.

 

[equationgirl]

Look, not everyone has even been identified yet, let alone been laid to rest. How about you show those who have perished some respect and dignity?

 

[gosub]

It may yet be found that these people died due to corporate manslaughter. Would you live somewhere you knew people had perished so horrifically?

there ain't much English soil that ain't got blood on it

it'll be a new build probably more tastefully suggested in about a years time when things are less mental....the amount of spin around is appalling. Grenfell was previously clad in asbestos....

We need rain.

 

[Gramsci]

I have worked for a TMO , about 15 years ago I tempted for one for about 6 months. What struck me at the time was that the tenant board members did have a lot of influence. I've no idea if this was the case at KCTMO ,but at the one I worked for ,a tenant board member interviewed applicants for vacant flats , 100% of them were nominations from the Local Authority, so I would show the flat ,then they were interviewed, and if the board member didn't like them (it was as simple as that) he could turn them down and another applicant was shown the flat. I did question this with management but they basically shrugged their shoulders They had to keep the board happy.

I was working in Housing with TMOs started to be created ,a Labour policy sadly. I was against them at the time, because it removed accountability from the councillors even though they were on the management boards.

The new MP when she was a Cllr was on the board of the TMO.

TMOs are common in London. In theory they give tenants greater say in the management of there estates. The Council retaining the ownership.

I know one estate near me where the tenants have had to fight the Council to keep there right to manage. They don't trust the Council. It helps protect them from the Council looking to regenerate there estate. Which they see as the Council (Lambeth) getting rid of social housing.

TMOs are run by volunteers. As with all community organisations some work well and some don't.

So I wouldn't want to condemn idea of tenant management outright.

I also think some media reporting has been mixing up the TMO and the Council.

The new MP has been doing that. Even though she spent several years on the board of the TMO. From 2008 to 2012.

 

[8den]

There's photos being released now of inside the building, the ruins of people's homes. These being shown accompanying a police statement explaining that a new updated figure for the dead is expected tomorrow and that due to the ferocity of the fire it may be that despite every effort some victims may never be identified.

Not disputing it, but that seems a bit odd, they were able to correctly identify 9/11 victims from the smallest fragments of bones, and DNA samples of relatives.

Edit to add, considering that some residents may well have been here, say, illegally, or as refugees, I just realised that it may be impossible to do the above.

 

[gosub]

Not disputing it, but that seems a bit odd, they were able to correctly identify 9/11 victims from the smallest fragments of bones, and DNA samples of relatives.

Edit to add, considering that some residents may well have been here, say, illegally, or as refugees, I just realised that it may be impossible to do the above.

wtc was a workplace. DNA identification requires comparable family members...Everybody in a workplace is somebodies child; with residential the whole family could be amongst the debris

 

[wiskey]

This is a bit fucking spooky:

Isn't it just

 

[8den]

wtc was a workplace. DNA identification requires comparable family members...

Basically the same point I made above, only not as well.

 

[cybertect]

Open to correction, but I think Kensington & Chelsea is unique in having put all its property (10,000 dwellings) under one TMO.

Notably, this runs counter to the statutory guidance notes published by HMG, as it's associated with 'significantly higher risks'.

Right to Manage statutory guidance: part 1 - GOV.UK

 

[Corax]

wtc was a workplace. DNA identification requires comparable family members...Everybody in a workplace is somebodies child; with residential the whole family could be amongst the debris

Also, WTC victims had homes, with toothbrushes etc.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Did undercover police target Grenfell residents who raised fears about safety?

 

[Raheem]

site of a worse London fire.

Srsly. Are you expecting everyone here to have done the knowledge?