Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[ViolentPanda]

Can't listen to this at the moment, so unclear on details.

Apparently they're being told they will be declared "intentionally homeless" if they refuse relocation outside of London?

Legislatively, local authorities do have the power to deem you "intentionally homeless" and wash their hands of you, if you turn down what they term as a "fair offer" of housing, even if that housing is in Carlisle or County Durham, let alone Preston.

 

[ViolentPanda]

look at this cuntfop:
View attachment 109620

Lots of inbreeding going on there, with that receding chin and prominent nose. Not surprising for a descendent of the Habsburgs though. Inbreeding was a family speciality.

 

[The Boy]

Hasn't it already been established that the cladding was legal and that now the question is why it's legal here but not in countries like Germany and the US? Another question must be why is cheap non flame retardant building cladding even being manufactured legally?

Yes, but Hammond appeared to suggest otherwise in his interview. I'm not sure if I've misunderstood, he was talking about a diff material or Hammond is talking shite - either deliberately or because he's misinformed.

 

[Wilf]

Can't listen to this at the moment, so unclear on details.

Apparently they're being told they will be declared "intentionally homeless" if they refuse relocation outside of London?

On Friday I heard k and c council had been in touch with Newcastle about taking people. It was from somebody who works in housing, so reliable afaik.

 

[Cid]

Hasn't it already been established that the cladding was legal and that now the question is why it's legal here but not in countries like Germany and the US?

It's not banned in either country. Its use is height restricted. So the question is why haven't regulations been updated... the answer to which is because of a climate of deregulation and austerity.

Another question must be why is cheap non flame retardant building cladding even being manufactured legally?

Because it has, or had its uses. On a low-rise, low risk building it's not going to be such a problem... Especially if the insulation and ventilation behind it is correctly designed. And the internal fire systems. Any product is a balance of risks and costs, advantages and disadvantages. e.g I never use FR MDF (in furniture) because it's (considerably) more expensive, heavier and tougher on tools. I have no idea whether there are any disadvantages to the FR version of this panel beyond the minor cost increase. I suspect here it's case of saving small amounts on individual bits for a large saving overall... Which again plays into regulation, austerity and problems with tendering (and the kind of race to the bottom culture it can create).

 

[pk]

 

[Lord Camomile]

On Friday I heard k and c council had been in touch with Newcastle about taking people. It was from somebody who works in housing, so reliable afaik.

As much as I'm a fan of Newcastle, that's fucking insane. Again, aside from the sheer humanity of it, these are easy ways to at least not lose ground, if not pick a bit up. Even if all they care about is themselves, that alone should stop them from pulling this shit in the immediate aftermath.

But no, at every single turn they are making the wrong decisions, losing ground and looking inhumane and/or stupid. They have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

 

[sealion]

Fuckin state of it

Standard issue tory by the looks of it. The name just makes him a bigger cunt.

 

[tim]

look at this cuntfop:
View attachment 109620

I don't really care what he looks like and don't see any justification for judging folk by their looks rather than their actions. With many of those in power there seems to be plenty in the latter to focus on.

Also whilst I don't like the Tories, I am also not convinced that Newham, where I live or Lambeth or most other local authorities would have cooed with this disaster any better. The primary problem is with the whole system not with rather impotent local politicians.

 

[DotCommunist]

doesn't have that same air of studied arrogance they normally wear in that photo

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I don't really care what he looks like and don't see any justification for judging folk by their looks rather than their actions.

So you don't reckon Rees Mogg & Gavin Barwell have really punchable faces? Both a pair of cunts to boot.

 

[cupid_stunt]

• 
  

  Hasn't it already been established that the cladding was legal and that now the question is why it's legal here but not in countries like Germany and the US? Another question must be why is cheap non flame retardant building cladding even being manufactured legally?

• 
  There seems some doubts about the regulations now, but certainly it seems the manufacturers says it shouldn't have been used on a 220ft building, and the contractors - Harley Facades - must have been aware of that, yet still used it.

• Manufacturers' say it is 'crucial' that the panels should not be fitted above 32ft

Fears on cut-price cladding were ignored on Grenfell Tower | Daily Mail Online

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

As much as I'm a fan of Newcastle, that's fucking insane. Again, aside from the sheer humanity of it, these are easy ways to at least not lose ground, if not pick a bit up. Even if all they care about is themselves, that alone should stop them from pulling this shit in the immediate aftermath.

But no, at every single turn they are making the wrong decisions, losing ground and looking inhumane and/or stupid. They have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

Too used to getting off with murder I guess, and still in denial.

 

[tim]

So you don't reckon Rees Mogg & Gavin Barwell have really punchable faces? Both a pair of cunts to boot.

Nazis punch and gas people for looking "different". Why play their game even rhetorically

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Nazis punch and gas people for looking "different". Why play their game even rhetorically

Yes, point taken

 

[stethoscope]

FFS.

Two women feared dead in Grenfell Tower were 'threatened with legal action' for raising alarm about fire safety

Two women feared dead in the Grenfell Tower tragedy were allegedly threatened with legal action after they campaigned for improved fire safety.

Mariem Elgwahry, 27, and Nadia Choucair, 33, reportedly received letters ordering them to stop their campaign for improved safety.

Both women were fighting the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation for building improvements, with help from the Radical Housing Network, The Mirror reports.

Pilgrim Tucker, who works for the group, told the paper: “The TMO’s response was to threaten tenants with legal action and send out letters. Nadia and Mariem would have received them too.

“They both just wanted to do their best for their neighbours and keep everyone safe. Things had got so bad they knew a disaster like this was inevitable, but if there was a chance of stopping it they were up for the fight. But no one listened and now this community is devastated. We have to get justice for them. The TMO treated tenants disgracefully and with disdain.

“They bullied them and persecuted those like Nadia and Mariem who were brave enough to speak out, branding them troublemakers.

“Their job was to listen to the tenants and make sure homes were safe and they didn’t do that. If they had then this would never have happened.”

He said Ms Elgwahry and Ms Choucair organised a petition and a protest outside the TMO’s management offices.

KCTMO has said it is fully cooperating with investigations and could not comment on the alleged legal threats.

The Independent has contacted KCTMO for comment.

 

[pk]

EDL trolls are posting these same lies all over social media - one of which even claimed he got it from The Spectator (Boris Johnson's old rag).
Allow me to turn the lies into facts:

1 - The KCTMO is a tory quango acting as a residents body, the landlord is the tory council.

2 a Labour MP was elected into that constituency only after last week's General Election, after being a tory safe seat for decades. And it remains a tory Council.

3 - the KCTMO are given a pot of money by the council to spend on day to day repairs, but the tory council is still the landlord

4 - Boris Johnson as Mayor cut 20,000+ firefighter jobs and close fire stations across the capital when told it was a bad idea publicly by an assembly member and that he lied to the people of London - he told that same assembly member to "get stuffed".

5 - Siddiq Khan did not call for further reductions in firefighters and no such report exists.

6 - the Tory KC council sent emails to the rich residents apologising for the appearance of Grenfell informing them that they will be placing plastic cladding on the outside so that it wouldn't be such an "eyesore" for them to endure.

7 - Theresa May's aid and former MP Gavin Barwell was the Minister for Housing four years ago - when he received a report warning him that Grenfell Tower was a tragedy waiting to happen, he chose to ignore the report.

8 - Grenfell Action Group complained to KCTMO for years about the safety of Grenfell Tower, they asked the council to take action - the tory council ignored their requests.

9 - when the Adair tower block fire happened several years earlier, the tories again ignored the requests to make tower blocks safe and to improve fire regulations.

10 - nearly 300 Tory MPs many of whom were landlords chose to vote against safety regulations that would have made Grenfell Tower safer - including the instillation of sprinklers

11 - Grenfell Action Group is made up of residents who live in Grenfell Tower and who have campaigned against the cladding that was used and general fire safety issues for over a decade.

12 Emma Coad was campaigning for greater safety measures in Grenfell as were the Grenfell Action Group who are elected by the residents of Grenfell.

But hey I get it it's more important to right wing trolls that the tory vermin stay in power than the innocent lives that were lost.

Grenfell Action Group - proof of multiple complaints to KCTMO - GRENFELL TOWER FIRE

COPY AND PASTE WHENEVER YOU SEE THESE RIGHT WING TROLLS SPREADING FAKE INFO!!

 

[pk]

Nazis punch and gas people for looking "different". Why play their game even rhetorically

Because fuck em.

 

[bimble]

EDL trolls are posting these same lies all over social media - one of which even claimed he got it from The Spectator (Boris Johnson's old rag).
Allow me to turn the lies into facts:

1 - The KCTMO is a residents body, the landlord is KC council Tory.

2 a Labour MP was elected into that constituency last week, a Tory safe seat for decades. And it remains a Tory Council.

3 - the KCTMO are given a pot of money by the council to spend on day to day repairs, but the council is the landlord

4 - Boris Johnson as Mayor cut 20,000+ firefighter jobs and close fire stations across the capital when told it was a bad idea publicly by an assembly member and that he lied to the people of London - he told that same assembly member to "get stuffed".

5 - Siddiq Khan did not call for further reductions in firefighters and no such report exists.

6 - the Tory KC council sent emails to the rich residents apologising for the appearance of Grenfell informing them that they will be placing plastic cladding on the outside so that it wouldn't be such an "eyesore" for them to endure.

7 - Theresa May's aid and former MP was the minister for Housing four years ago when he received a report warning him that Grenfell was a tragedy waiting to happen. He chose to ignore the report.

8 - KCTMO for years complained about the safety of Grenfell they asked the council to take action the Tory council ignored their requests.

9 - when the Adair tower block fire happened several years earlier the Tories again ignored the requests to make tower blocks safe and to improve fire regulations.

10 - nearly 300 Tory MPs many of who were landlords chose to vote against safety regulations that would have made Grenfell safer including the instillation of sprinklers

11 - KCTMO is made up of residents who live in Grenfell and who have campaigned against the cladding that was used

12 Emma Coad was campaigning for greater safety measures in Grenfell as were the KCTMO who are elected by the residents of Grenfell.

But hey I get it it's more important to right wing trolls that the tory vermin stay in power than the innocent lives that were lost.

COPY AND PASTE WHENEVER YOU SEE THESE RIGHT WING TROLLS SPREADING FAKE INFO!!

This is full of bollocks , you're not helping.

 

[weltweit]

.. 10 - nearly 300 Tory MPs many of who were landlords chose to vote against safety regulations that would have made Grenfell safer including the instillation of sprinklers ..

Someone was telling me about this only yesterday. If it is true then it stinks!

 

[tim]

EDL trolls are posting these same lies all over social media - one of which even claimed he got it from The Spectator (Boris Johnson's old rag).
Allow me to turn the lies into facts:

1 - The KCTMO is a residents body, the landlord is KC council Tory.

2 a Labour MP was elected into that constituency last week, a Tory safe seat for decades. And it remains a Tory Council.

3 - the KCTMO are given a pot of money by the council to spend on day to day repairs, but the council is the landlord

4 - Boris Johnson as Mayor cut 20,000+ firefighter jobs and close fire stations across the capital when told it was a bad idea publicly by an assembly member and that he lied to the people of London - he told that same assembly member to "get stuffed".

5 - Siddiq Khan did not call for further reductions in firefighters and no such report exists.

6 - the Tory KC council sent emails to the rich residents apologising for the appearance of Grenfell informing them that they will be placing plastic cladding on the outside so that it wouldn't be such an "eyesore" for them to endure.

7 - Theresa May's aid and former MP was the minister for Housing four years ago when he received a report warning him that Grenfell was a tragedy waiting to happen. He chose to ignore the report.

8 - KCTMO for years complained about the safety of Grenfell they asked the council to take action the Tory council ignored their requests.

9 - when the Adair tower block fire happened several years earlier the Tories again ignored the requests to make tower blocks safe and to improve fire regulations.

10 - nearly 300 Tory MPs many of who were landlords chose to vote against safety regulations that would have made Grenfell safer including the instillation of sprinklers

11 - KCTMO is made up of residents who live in Grenfell and who have campaigned against the cladding that was used

12 Emma Coad was campaigning for greater safety measures in Grenfell as were the KCTMO who are elected by the residents of Grenfell.

But hey I get it it's more important to right wing trolls that the tory vermin stay in power than the innocent lives that were lost.

COPY AND PASTE WHENEVER YOU SEE THESE RIGHT WING TROLLS SPREADING FAKE INFO!!

KCTMO isn't a residents body its the company/Quango that manages Kensington and Chelsea properties on behalf of the council. So it is in practical terms the landlord.

 

[dessiato]

If, as is being stated, people are going to be forced to move as far as Preston, Newcastle, etc. not only are they going to be estranged from their communities, which, I imagine, is going to become increasingly important to these survivors, but what's going to happen to their jobs, and their probability of find work they'll be able to do?

 

[bimble]

Someone was telling me about this only yesterday. If it is true then it stinks!

I think its referring to this, it does stink.
Tories have blocked Labour legislation to make rented homes safer – but it’s complicated.

 

[Lord Camomile]

If, as is being stated, people are going to be forced to move as far as Preston, Newcastle, etc. not only are they going to be estranged from their communities, which, I imagine, is going to become increasingly important to these survivors, but what's going to happen to their jobs, and their probability of find work they'll be able to do?

Also been suggested that if they're spread out disparately across the country it makes it harder to form any kind of justice movement.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Also been suggested that if they're spread out disparately across the country it makes it harder to form any kind of justice movement.

Shit shit shit

 

[bimble]

I still think its likely that the survivors will be housed locally, somehow, and probably presented with giant cheques or something by May, in a desperate attempt to save face, but who knows maybe the people in charge really are that stupid that they won't do it, all evidence points to them being that stupid.

 

[stethoscope]

But no, at every single turn they are making the wrong decisions, losing ground and looking inhumane and/or stupid. They have absolutely no idea what they're doing.

When it comes to 'decanting' social housing tenants, they (Tory or Labour) know exactly what they're doing.

 

[Buckaroo]

.

 

[Lord Camomile]

When it comes to 'decanting' social housing tenants, they (Tory or Labour) know exactly what they're doing.

Aye, I suppose I was being a bit naive attributing it to incompetence.

Still incompetent to do it so blatantly after such a public tragedy. You'd have thought they'd take the social hit on this one and then just continue as normal once everything had quietened down.

 

[pk]

This is full of bollocks , you're not helping.

How?? Seems to check out against the right-wing campaign lies. Correct any mistakes and I'll take notice. Otherwise how the fuck are you helping?