Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[bimble]

How?? Seems to check out against the right-wing campaign lies. Correct any mistakes and I'll take notice. Otherwise how the fuck are you helping?

One major error has already been pointed out above by tim , you're just spreading more nonsense , saying that you're countering FAKE NEWS but adding to it.

 

[dessiato]

Also been suggested that if they're spread out disparately across the country it makes it harder to form any kind of justice movement.

I wonder how deliberate that is.

 

[bi0boy]

How?? Seems to check out against the right-wing campaign lies. Correct any mistakes and I'll take notice. Otherwise how the fuck are you helping?

Seriously it's full of half truths.

 

[A380]

....

... I am also not convinced that Newham, where I live or Lambeth or most other local authorities would have cooed with this disaster any better. The primary problem is with the whole system not with rather impotent local politicians...

There are some excellent local resilience officers and teams across local government, inside and outside London. Some ex emergency services/military and some home grown council people. It will be interesting to see in the enquiry what capacity Kensington and Chelsea had, if they'd cut anyone recently and when was the last time they tested or exercised their major incident plan. Like Health and Safety resilience is often seen as a bit geeky and is an easy cut to make. Right up to the point where it isn't.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

He was shitting bricks on the telly the other night. What a fucking name too. He's as 'rock'-like as May is strong and stable.

It must have been a weird few days for tories though - first not giving a shit, then feeling they had to pretend to and now finding out they dont really have to because lots of the victims are brown and angry at the government, while some of the sympathisers might be a bit LEFT WING. Now Project "Move On" should be just around the corner.

 

[pk]

Seriously it's full of half truths.

Examples??

 

[Wilf]

I was going to post a thread on 'solidarity actions with Grenfell residents' in Protest. Is that the best way to go or do people want to leave it all on this one?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

It must have been a weird few days for tories though - first not giving a shit, then feeling they had to pretend to and now finding out they dont really have to because lots of the victims are brown and angry at the government, while some of the sympathisers might be a bit LEFT WING. Now Project "Move On" should be just around the corner.

Plus (apparently/unconfirmed) that Immigration were feeling the collars of some survivors, five fucking days after escaping the inferno.

 

[bimble]

Examples??

For Fucks Sake.
Your thing says "The KCTMO is made up of residents who live in Grenfell and who have campaigned against the cladding that was used" . That is utter nonsense.
Whoever wrote that got confused and mixed up the managing agents who ignored the residents complaints & warnings (that is KCTMO) and the residents who warned them (called Grenfell Action Group), you twit.
So it is completely useless and you should probably not "cut and paste it everywhere!" as it instructs.

 

[killer b]

finding out they dont really have to because lots of the victims are brown and angry at the government, while some of the sympathisers might be a bit LEFT WING. Now Project "Move On" should be just around the corner.

This isn't real. Outside the proper mental fascists, no-one is any less outraged by this because the victims were mostly BME.

If they try to 'move on' they will be eviscerated.

 

[pk]

For Fucks Sake.
Your thing says "The KCTMO is made up of residents who live in Grenfell and who have campaigned against the cladding that was used" . That is utter nonsense.
Whoever wrote that got confused and mixed up the managing agents who ignored the residents complaints & warnings (that is KCTMO) and the residents who warned them (called Grenfell Action Group), you twit.
So it is completely useless and you should probably not "cut and paste it everywhere!" as it instructs.

Fair enough, must have overlooked that bit. Still, was put together quick with c&p to counteract the current EDL fake shit blaming Khan and Labour for the Tower fire. Still works to counter their bullshit. Will amend and repost. Any other issues with it??? Anyone?

 

[bimble]

Fair enough, must have overlooked that bit. Still, was put together quick with c&p to counteract the current EDL fake shit blaming Khan and Labour for the Tower fire. Still works to counter their bullshit. Will amend and repost. Any other issues with it??? Anyone?

I'd be interested in any info you've got to back up the bit that goes:

6 - the Tory KC council sent emails to the rich residents apologising for the appearance of Grenfell informing them that they will be placing plastic cladding on the outside so that it wouldn't be such an "eyesore" for them to endure.

anything? That sounds interesting.

 

[killer b]

perhaps if you're wanting to debunk something, it might be best to carefully put together the document from verified sources rather than doing a 'quick q&p' that can be pulled apart in seconds by anyone who's read the news in the past four days?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

This isn't real. Outside the proper mental fascists, no-one is any less outraged by this because the victims were mostly BME.

If they try to 'move on' they will be eviscerated.

Ok, I wouldn't want to overstate it, but it's important not to understate it either. "proper mental fascists" are a significant minority, and when one thinks that a large point of online congregation is the Mail's website, which is a paper whose editor, at least till recently, probably had the ear of the PM more than any other, that is significant.

Some of this fascist mindset infects the conservative party itself, it's base and it's voters. Way too much. Thus, they are represented at some level in government. We are, even in small-ish way, ruled by this shit. "Go Home" vans, "Citizens of Nowhere", "Enemies Of The People", "Crush The Sabteurs" are all for them.

if they do try an move on it is partly for us to eviscerate them.

 

[pinkmonkey]

I am well aware of this. It is not funny but interesting what a wide cross section of people are calling May out. Pammy might just be bandwagon jumping but there you go...

Shes pretty right on, she spent several days chopping onions at refugee community kitchen this spring in Calais, my neighbour set this charity up, Id imagine shes heard a whole lot from them about the Tory government, whilst volunteering there.

 

[Lord Camomile]

I was going to post a thread on 'solidarity actions with Grenfell residents' in Protest. Is that the best way to go or do people want to leave it all on this one?

Personally I think it might be worth having a separate thread, as this one is massive and fast moving and things might well get lost.

 

[pk]

perhaps if you're wanting to debunk something, it might be best to carefully put together the document from verified sources rather than doing a 'quick q&p' that can be pulled apart in seconds by anyone who's read the news in the past four days?

Have re-edited - perhaps if people could HELP instead of bitching??? Just a thought..

1 - The KCTMO is a tory quango acting as a residents body, the landlord is the tory council.

2 a Labour MP was elected into that constituency only after last week's General Election, after being a tory safe seat for decades. And it remains a tory Council.

3 - the KCTMO are given a pot of money by the council to spend on day to day repairs, but the tory council is still the landlord

4 - Boris Johnson as Mayor cut 20,000+ firefighter jobs and close fire stations across the capital when told it was a bad idea publicly by an assembly member and that he lied to the people of London - he told that same assembly member to "get stuffed".

5 - Siddiq Khan did not call for further reductions in firefighters and no such report exists.

6 - the Tory KC council sent emails to the rich residents apologising for the appearance of Grenfell informing them that they will be placing plastic cladding on the outside so that it wouldn't be such an "eyesore" for them to endure.

7 - Theresa May's aid and former MP Gavin Barwell was the Minister for Housing four years ago - when he received a report warning him that Grenfell Tower was a tragedy waiting to happen, he chose to ignore the report.

8 - Grenfell Action Group complained to KCTMO for years about the safety of Grenfell Tower, they asked the council to take action - the tory council ignored their requests.

9 - when the Adair tower block fire happened several years earlier, the tories again ignored the requests to make tower blocks safe and to improve fire regulations.

10 - nearly 300 Tory MPs many of whom were landlords chose to vote against safety regulations that would have made Grenfell Tower safer - including the instillation of sprinklers

11 - Grenfell Action Group is made up of residents who live in Grenfell Tower and who have campaigned against the cladding that was used and general fire safety issues for over a decade.

12 Emma Coad was campaigning for greater safety measures in Grenfell as were the Grenfell Action Group who are elected by the residents of Grenfell.

But hey I get it it's more important to right wing trolls that the tory vermin stay in power than the innocent lives that were lost.

Grenfell Action Group - proof of multiple complaints to KCTMO - GRENFELL TOWER FIRE

COPY AND PASTE WHENEVER YOU SEE THESE RIGHT WING TROLLS SPREADING FAKE INFO!!

 

[pk]

Also this:

 

[agricola]

There are some excellent local resilience officers and teams across local government, inside and outside London. Some ex emergency services/military and some home grown council people. It will be interesting to see in the enquiry what capacity Kensington and Chelsea had, if they'd cut anyone recently and when was the last time they tested or exercised their major incident plan. Like Health and Safety resilience is often seen as a bit geeky and is an easy cut to make. Right up to the point where it isn't.

I'd have to check, but I am reasonably sure that the LALOs train and liaise with their counterparts in the emergency services quite a lot so I'd be amazed if the council's response failed because of them.

I would be much less amazed if it transpires that the council's response failed because the senior council types quibbled over, or couldn't provide, the amount of support the LALO called for. Given how they have behaved since (especially if these claims about them rehoming people out of London are true), I think quibbling is the more likely.

 

[killer b]

Have re-edited - perhaps if people could HELP instead of bitching??? Just a thought..

It's difficult to know where to start tbh. Maybe with 'start again'. 'Fraid I don't have time this afternoon for anything more than that though - and I'm not sure how worthwhile posting massive C&Ps at far right nutcases is anyway.

 

[ChrisD]

If the cladding used was illegal we'd surely know by now, wouldn't we? The world and their brother has been poring over the regs and the materials.

I assume Hammond was briefed before that interview....I'm puzzled by the use if the word "guidance". The design and implementation either complied with current uk building regs (seemingly years behind other counties in respect of cladding) or it didn't.
It is possible to comply with mandatory standards but still call short of some "best practice" "recommendation" or "guidance". I suspect Hammond is trying to deflect criticism from the fact that building regulations review of this was kicked into the long grass.

 

[pk]

It's difficult to know where to start tbh. Maybe with 'start again'. 'Fraid I don't have time this afternoon for anything more than that though - and I'm not sure how worthwhile posting massive C&Ps at far right nutcases is anyway.

It's a swift way to counteract their blatant anti-labour and pro-tory agenda. I've been busy destroying these sly fuckers all over BBC and Evening Standard FB pages - these are the circlejerk right wing pages that are worth attacking, it's turning doubters into people who reject the tory agenda...

 

[killer b]

Do you imagine you've been 'destroying' them with your error filled C&P? OK.

 

[bi0boy]

It's a swift way to counteract their blatant anti-labour and pro-tory agenda. I've been busy destroying these sly fuckers all over BBC and Evening Standard FB pages - these are the circlejerk right wing pages that are worth attacking, it's turning doubters into people who reject the tory agenda...

Yes it reads like you want to make a pro-Labour riposte rather than set out the facts around this disaster.

 

[bimble]

it's turning doubters into people who reject the tory agenda...

 

[Corax]

For Fucks Sake.
Your thing says "The KCTMO is made up of residents who live in Grenfell and who have campaigned against the cladding that was used" . That is utter nonsense.
Whoever wrote that got confused and mixed up the managing agents who ignored the residents complaints & warnings (that is KCTMO) and the residents who warned them (called Grenfell Action Group), you twit.
So it is completely useless and you should probably not "cut and paste it everywhere!" as it instructs.

I think it was on Marr that it was stated that 8 of the board of KCTMO were residents, but that they were there as advisors rather than having voting rights, and were mainly looked at as 'troublemakers'

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Do you imagine you've been 'destroying' them with your error filled C&P? OK.

PK is a force of nature he doesn't need facts!

Hello PK you nutter, you're a lot less radge than I remember

 

[planetgeli]

Examples??

Your point 11 isn't true. GAG didn't complain about the cladding. Hardly anyone seems to have known exactly what the cladding was until this week. Until after it went up like a firework as shown by the mobile phone footage (which surely should at least end these ridiculous 'if the cladding had anything to do with it' doubts).

As Gramsci pointed out earlier, and put succinctly

Looking at the blog posts. None refer to the cladding. Access for emergency vehicles is brought up, rubbish not being cleared and also issues around the Fire Risk Assessment.

The action group were complaining about emergency lighting and out of date fire extinguishers for example.

The action group were bringing up issues of poor management by the TMO.

And you can add power surges to that...

 

[ChrisD]

Each issue of Private Eye has a column called "rotten boroughs". What I've learnt this week about RBKC would fill up a whole book.

 

[pk]

Yes it reads like you want to make a pro-Labour riposte rather than set out the facts around this disaster.

If this disaster is what it takes to reverse the blatant classism of the present UK situation and install a socialist led government then so be it.