Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

This seems to be strongly disputed too.

it's the auld goebbels' big lie

 

[teuchter]

thats because you are wilfully blind to class.

and you.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

You and others on here have been harassing me with this crap for about ten years now. It's not going to stop me from saying what I want. Try doing some actual thinking in place of the time you waste trying to smear.

Good for you because that is the important thing at the moment.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[planetgeli]

FFS.

Moaning about kids playing with balls while KCTMO play with fire.

Classy.

 

[Pickman's model]

You and others on here have been harassing me with this crap for about ten years now. It's not going to stop me from saying what I want. Try doing some actual thinking in place of the time you waste trying to smear.

perhaps you could stop saying what you want and start saying what you should.

 

[belboid]

You and others on here have been harassing me with this crap for about ten years now. It's not going to stop me from saying what I want. Try doing some actual thinking in place of the time you waste trying to smear.

Pointing out your dishonesty, hypocrisy and general bullshit is not harassment.

Twat.

 

[killer b]

are going to have the riot right here on the thread?

 

[teuchter]

What about the rest of my post? No opinion about that?

I agree with it. It's stating the obvious though, isn't it?

 

[Artaxerxes]

Does anybody know if volunteers are still needed? I've seen conflicting reports. But if they are happy to give a hand.

Volunteers fine, donations "pls stahp we have to much"

 

[editor]

Pointing out your dishonesty, hypocrisy and general bullshit is not harassment.

Twat.

Not the right thread for a bunfight.

 

[Teaboy]

The guardian had a diagram pulled from the intial planning consent I think, which showed the detailing.

It looks as if they've moved the windows onto the new cladding with an internal extension of the window surround covering part of the insulation layer. For this to have formed part of the fire proof barrier to stop the fire hitting the vulnerable insulation all the window surrounds would have needed to be fully fire rated, but I'll bet a lot of money that they were just done in UPVC and mastic.

The firestops in the insulation also didn't look to actually meet the cladding panel, so there would be a gap between insulation and the cladding, and between the firestop and the cladding.

So basically the fire could spread from flat to flat up the outside of the building simply by burning through the UPVC window surrounds, then burning the insulation and the flames just licked around between the firestop and the cladding.

That insulation effectively wasn't even properly external in classification as it no longer had a proper solid wall / windows between it and the inside, just a flimsy plastic window surround and some mastic.

If that detailing is what happened then everyone involved in signing that off should be in jail for manslaughter.

Oh lord, really?

I've not seen the detailing but if its as described it sounds like a proper dog's dinner.

A couple of things though. What was the insulation actually fixed back to? There must have been some sort of substrate, surely? Also the firebreaks (I can't believe I'm even talking about firebreaks on a building this high) wouldn't need to be in contact against the back the cladding. The whole principle of ventilated rainscreen is that there is a continual vented cavity, a firebreak would block this. Instead you'd have intumescents (expanding chemicals) in there to expand and block the cavity at the first sign of fire.

I queried the presence /performance of the inutumescents towards the start of this thread.

Also fucking mastic. If anyone is still using mastic (which has a design life of about 6 minutes) on facades in this era they need shooting.

 

[phillm]

thats because you are wilfully blind to class. A common disease among liberals. To my mind to set the conditions through negligence and ignorance of the residents long and loud raised concerns is bad enough of itself. Little eichmann that you are, it was all just procedure and isn't it such a shame.



Shall we have what is the counter narrative so far?

-black blokes fridge exploding (this we know happened. But it will be played upon)

-The tenants expressed no wish to have fire safety equipment in the building

what have I missed from the list?

- (muslim) mayor Sadiq Khan barracked by residents (rather than Angela Leadsom or May's no show)

 

[teuchter]

Pointing out your dishonesty, hypocrisy and general bullshit is not harassment.

Twat.

If what you did was to fairly point out dishonesty and hypocrisy, it would not be harassment. Correct. You should try it.

 

[Pickman's model]

- (muslim) mayor Sadiq Khan barracked by residents (rather than Angela Leadsom or May's no show)

you seem to suggest sk was barracked because he was muslim and i don't believe this to be the case.

 

[DotCommunist]

You and others on here have been harassing me with this crap for about ten years now. It's not going to stop me from saying what I want. Try doing some actual thinking in place of the time you waste trying to smear.

actually I haven't have I?, I've had the brixton forum on ignore for years now since you and your bourgeois dickhead mates turned it from an interesting look at a community so very different to my own into the wankers fest it became. Crawled out toot sweet to decry any little misreported element as 'hysteria' and so on didn't you?

 

[Teaboy]

thats because you are wilfully blind to class. A common disease among liberals. To my mind to set the conditions through negligence and ignorance of the residents long and loud raised concerns is bad enough of itself. Little eichmann that you are, it was all just procedure and isn't it such a shame.



Shall we have what is the counter narrative so far?

-black blokes fridge exploding (this we know happened. But it will be played upon)

-The tenants expressed no wish to have fire safety equipment in the building

what have I missed from the list?

Insulation = green concerns = green concerns more important than human life.

That's the line the mail and telegraph are pushing.

 

[marty21]

Drove back to London from holiday in Devon today , came into London via the A40 , you see the tower from the flyover , it is a shocking sight

 

[teuchter]

The guardian had a diagram pulled from the intial planning consent I think, which showed the detailing.

What's in the planning consent is not usually a reflection of the final fully developed detailing.

 

[phillm]

you seem to suggest sk was barracked because he was muslim and i don't believe this to be the case.

sorry didn't mean that - Mail etc by inference showing mayor getting stick when I'm not sure he is in the firing line for culpability. Always feel the mail has hidden racism in putting him up front for a bashing. Hoping some of their more neatherndal readers will make the subliminal jump. Just a wild theory from me.

 

[NoXion]

What's in the planning consent is not usually a reflection of the final fully developed detailing.

Yeah, it could very well be worse than that.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Now, I'm not saying anything about the people being featured in the video - the video has clearly been assembled from other people's footage - but that ‘filmmaker’ is clearly of a dubious political background.

They're called ELITE NWO AGENDA, and they post up videos which claim that - say - the London Bridge terror attack was a staged/false flag incident, reupload Alex Jones InfoWars clips, have an obsession with the gold standard, is pro-Trump, etc. ENWOA's core audience is alt-right and the like.

Elite NWO Agenda
https://www.patreon.com/elitenwoagenda

 

[Treacle Toes]

I agree with it. It's stating the obvious though, isn't it?

Really? So bloody obvious that no one in that housing office thought 'perhaps we should hold off on hand delivering these horrible warning letters today, instead we could offer residents some supportive words and/or information'?

Stop making excuses for this insensitive nonsense.

 

[Pickman's model]

Now, I'm not saying anything about the people being featured in the video - the video has clearly been assembled from other people's footage - but that ‘filmmaker’ is clearly of a dubious political background.

They're called ELITE NWO AGENDA, and they post up videos which claim that - say - the London Bridge terror attack was a staged/false flag incident, reupload Alex Jones InfoWars clips, have an obsession with the gold standard, is pro-Trump, etc. ENWOA's core audience is alt-right and the like.

Elite NWO Agenda
https://www.patreon.com/elitenwoagenda

Anudder Oik has a grand record of posting up films by dubious auteurs

 

[NoXion]

Now, I'm not saying anything about the people being featured in the video - the video has clearly been assembled from other people's footage - but that ‘filmmaker’ is clearly of a dubious political background.

They're called ELITE NWO AGENDA, and they post up videos which claim that - say - the London Bridge terror attack was a staged/false flag incident, reupload Alex Jones InfoWars clips, have an obsession with the gold standard, is pro-Trump, etc. ENWOA's core audience is alt-right and the like.

Elite NWO Agenda
https://www.patreon.com/elitenwoagenda

What a surprise coming from Anudder Oik

 

[NoXion]

jinx

 

[Treacle Toes]

Crowds growing outside RKAC offices

 

[Pickman's model]

What a surprise coming from Anudder Oik

you could put him blindfold and in a straitjacket in a dark room and he'd locate a 'loon or fascist film-maker with no difficulty

 

[teuchter]

actually I haven't have I?,

yes you have. right here:

it was all just procedure and isn't it such a shame.

That's the attitude you attribute to me in your smear attempt. I have not said that it was "all just procedure". So, please don't try and make out like I have.

And I did not appear on this thread to decry a minor misreported element as "hysteria". It was to decry very poor journalism as very poor journalism.

 

[squirrelp]

A Twitter thread on inquests vs public enquiries.

1) Judges are said to be independent of government, but... look at Hutton. The point of juries is that they really are the best independence
2) Doesn't matter that a coroner's inquest fails to blame. That can then follow. Notably, in the Jean Charles de Menezes inquest, the jury was directed not to find that Menezes was 'unlawfully killed' because then 'the police would have to have been prosecuted'. That was a bizarre direction which effectively held the police above the law and I wonder if the jury realised they could have ignored it. Doubtless no judge would have found that de Menezes was unlawfully killed.
3) Coroner's inquests do not necessarily accompany public inquiries - e.g. Hutton / Dr. Kelly - no coroner's inquest
4) The coroner can summon witnesses, and evidence is given under oath. I don't know if this can happen with a public inquiry, but it wasn't the case with the Hutton inquiry.

 

[teuchter]

Really? So bloody obvious that no one in that housing office thought 'perhaps we should hold off on hand delivering these horrible warning letters today, instead we could offer residents some supportive words and/or information'?

Stop making excuses for this insensitive nonsense.

What?

I mean it's obvious that it would be insensitive to send out a letter like that in the midst of the aftermath of the fire. If that's what happened, I agree with you it's insensitive. Is it not stating the obvious that doing so would be insensitive?