Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[ruffneck23]

Bunch of fuckers

 

[Barking_Mad]

For those not familiar with the area (me included)

 

[Artaxerxes]

Or, maybe, the letters were sent out before the fire took place. Just a crazy theory though.

Typed up on 14th June, hand delivered by TMO today according to sources.

 

[Pickman's model]

FFS.

View attachment 109478View attachment 109479View attachment 109480

that would of course be janice jones, who's been there a few years now and you'd have thought has better things to be worrying about atm than a few balls being kicked about.

 

[ruffneck23]

Or, maybe, the letters were sent out before the fire took place. Just a crazy theory though.

Really ? Once again you make yourself look like a cock , where's your humanity ?

 

[Sea Star]

haven't seen this on here. Forgive me if its been posted already.

Grenfell Tower fire: Lawyer calls for inquest instead of public inquiry asking 'What needs to be hidden?'


'Juries will come out with narrative verdicts which may be very difficult for the Government to hear,' says Sophie Khan

Lawyer calls for Grenfell Tower inquest: What does Theresa May have to hide?

 

[Pickman's model]

Typed up on 14th June, hand delivered by TMO today according to sources.

austerity hits stamps

 

[Badgers]

haven't seen this on here. Forgive me if its been posted already.


Lawyer calls for Grenfell Tower inquest: What does Theresa May have to hide?

Grenfell Tower residents should demand an inquest rather than a public inquiry to get answers about the tragedy, according to a solicitor who acted for people affected in the 2009 Lakanal House fire.

The residents have been demanding things for a while and been ignored sadly.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Or, maybe, the letters were sent out before the fire took place. Just a crazy theory though.

The fire started during the night of Tuesday the 13th. The letters are dated the 14th. Hand delivered today the 16th.

Strikes me that the TMO should and could have had a far more reassuring and helpful letter to deliver to neighbouring residents today. So many of them must be traumatised by what has happened/what they saw.

 

[Barking_Mad]

A Twitter thread on inquests vs public enquiries.

 

[bimble]

The residents have been demanding things for a while and been ignored sadly.

For what it's worth a petition demanding an inquest instead of enquiry has almost reached 50,000 signatures within an hour. Can't link from phone but it's a page or 2 back.

 

[teuchter]

The fire started during the night of Tuesday the 13th. The letters are dated the 14th.

I'm not an expert on automated mailing systems but it seems possible that something could be set up to go out on the next working day.

My thinking tends to go along the lines of perhaps this wasn't necessarily the result of one of my fellow humans being a heartless monster but it turns out, that indicates my lack of humanity.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

There are a set of circumstances, time and place when rioting becomes inevitable. This is not one of these times I believe. Maybe more impact will be achieved by mass sit downs and causing London to come to a standstill for a day. Less damage and a peaceful, reflective protest against the poison that flows through this land.

I agree, and I hope that the anger that people have doesn't result in more fires and more deaths because of rioting. I do hope that there is a change in attitude that results in meaningful change and is not dismissed and ignored by those in charge.

 

[Pickman's model]

For those not familiar with the area (me included)

View attachment 109482

grenfell tower circled in red

 

[free spirit]

There is a grade classification between Class A and Class B which is relatively significant. The FR version being Class A and the standard version Class B. That being said they are both well within regs and better than others that are out there.

I think we're about to discover the full limitations of the testing regime.

I once sat in a meeting with a testing authority, contractor and manufacturer regarding a product that wasn't performing on-site. The testing authority were asked about their testing and why the product was performing differently. The nonchalant reply was they only test in laboratory conditions. Great! Lets build more buildings inside laboratories!

I know of a insulated render company that have a unique detail as part of their system which enabled them to get a good fire rating. Unfortunately as contractors move from system to system as they move projects the actual workman either didn't know to do the detail or couldn't be bothered. The result being that a crucial firestopping detail was often not implemented on-site.

There is a lot of accusations being leveled at the panel but I think we are going to find the cause of this runs a lot deeper than what or wasn't in the core of the cladding panel.

The guardian had a diagram pulled from the intial planning consent I think, which showed the detailing.

It looks as if they've moved the windows onto the new cladding with an internal extension of the window surround covering part of the insulation layer. For this to have formed part of the fire proof barrier to stop the fire hitting the vulnerable insulation all the window surrounds would have needed to be fully fire rated, but I'll bet a lot of money that they were just done in UPVC and mastic.

The firestops in the insulation also didn't look to actually meet the cladding panel, so there would be a gap between insulation and the cladding, and between the firestop and the cladding.

So basically the fire could spread from flat to flat up the outside of the building simply by burning through the UPVC window surrounds, then burning the insulation and the flames just licked around between the firestop and the cladding.

That insulation effectively wasn't even properly external in classification as it no longer had a proper solid wall / windows between it and the inside, just a flimsy plastic window surround and some mastic.

If that detailing is what happened then everyone involved in signing that off should be in jail for manslaughter.

 

[Yossarian]

At some point the bean counter who ticked the box for one type of cladding over another may well be picked up and monstered as an individual. If they are it'll be a red herring, because those decisions are absolutely in keeping with and testament to the endless pressure for "efficiency savings" that people above that sort of pay grade have been piling on for decades now (often in order to justify their own enormous salary hikes, or political reputations).

They shouldn't be made a scapegoat for the policies and culture spearheaded by others up, though I would like to see the person who made the call and their bosses identified, asked to explain the decision-making process, and asked whether they would put the stuff on the outside of their own home.

That £5,000 figure is just sickening - going to work out to something like £50 per life lost, and it didn't even save any money in the end because their fucking building burned down.

 

[Sea Star]

The residents have been demanding things for a while and been ignored sadly.

might be quite a few people demanding alongside them now.

 

[Badgers]

might be quite a few people demanding alongside them now.

I hope that in this instance it gets taken seriously. Not being negative but being in the right and having numbers behind you does not always mean you are listened to in this country.

 

[Pickman's model]

I hope that in this instance it gets taken seriously. Not being negative but being in the right and having numbers behind you does not always mean you are listened to in this country.

speak softly and carry a big stick

 

[belboid]

I'm not an expert on automated mailing systems but it seems possible that something could be set up to go out on the next working day.

My thinking tends to go along the lines of perhaps this wasn't necessarily the result of one of my fellow humans being a heartless monster but it turns out, that indicates my lack of humanity.

Your thinking goes 'I must make excuses for those with all the power and the wealth'

Twat

 

[Sea Star]

I hope that in this instance it gets taken seriously. Not being negative but being in the right and having numbers behind you does not always mean you are listened to in this country.

yes, I'm fully aware of that, but that doesn't mean we just give up.

 

[Borp]

Does anybody know if volunteers are still needed? I've seen conflicting reports. But if they are happy to give a hand.

 

[DotCommunist]

My thinking tends to go along the lines of perhaps this wasn't necessarily the result of one of my fellow humans being a heartless monster but it turns out, that indicates my lack of humanity.

thats because you are wilfully blind to class. A common disease among liberals. To my mind to set the conditions through negligence and ignorance of the residents long and loud raised concerns is bad enough of itself. Little eichmann that you are, it was all just procedure and isn't it such a shame.



Shall we have what is the counter narrative so far?

-black blokes fridge exploding (this we know happened. But it will be played upon)

-The tenants expressed no wish to have fire safety equipment in the building

what have I missed from the list?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Does anybody know if volunteers are still needed? I've seen conflicting reports. But if they are happy to give a hand.

From this morning...

Contact these places as a starting point.

 

[killer b]

The guardian had a diagram pulled from the intial planning consent I think, which showed the detailing.

It looks as if they've moved the windows onto the new cladding with an internal extension of the window surround covering part of the insulation layer. For this to have formed part of the fire proof barrier to stop the fire hitting the vulnerable insulation all the window surrounds would have needed to be fully fire rated, but I'll bet a lot of money that they were just done in UPVC and mastic.

The firestops in the insulation also didn't look to actually meet the cladding panel, so there would be a gap between insulation and the cladding, and between the firestop and the cladding.

So basically the fire could spread from flat to flat up the outside of the building simply by burning through the UPVC window surrounds, then burning the insulation and the flames just licked around between the firestop and the cladding.

That insulation effectively wasn't even properly external in classification as it no longer had a proper solid wall / windows between it and the inside, just a flimsy plastic window surround and some mastic.

If that detailing is what happened then everyone involved in signing that off should be in jail for manslaughter.

Can I ask how long you've held all this expert knowledge about UPVC window installation and building regs?

 

[Badgers]

yes, I'm fully aware of that, but that doesn't mean we just give up.

I agree

 

[Treacle Toes]

I'm not an expert on automated mailing systems but it seems possible that something could be set up to go out on the next working day.

My thinking tends to go along the lines of perhaps this wasn't necessarily the result of one of my fellow humans being a heartless monster but it turns out, that indicates my lack of humanity.

What about the rest of my post? No opinion about that?

 

[editor]

-The tenants expressed no wish to have fire safety equipment in the building

This seems to be strongly disputed too.

 

[Crispy]

Can I ask how long you've held all this expert knowledge about UPVC window installation and building regs?

Makes sense to me

 

[teuchter]

Your thinking goes 'I must make excuses for those with all the power and the wealth'

Twat

You and others on here have been harassing me with this crap for about ten years now. It's not going to stop me from saying what I want. Try doing some actual thinking in place of the time you waste trying to smear.