Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[Artaxerxes]

Some tories being given a push: an artist's impression

Defenestration of Westminster, I'd be up for it.

 

[ruffneck23]

What good is a Tory government to you, Mr Vladimir 0.0001%, if it can't defend your property rights.

A good point indeed

 

[Who PhD]

Some 18 hours ago it was a skinny white guy in one article from the bastards, they've changed there minds now and tweeted a shot of a black guy sipping a pint saying it was him.

The Scum is now saying he's a bastard for knocking at his neighbours door with a sack of his clothing and telling them theres a fire.

Parasites is not a strong enough term for these fucking arseholes. Absolute cunts the lot of them.

Cunts, they're the ones who should be burning. Along with the Tories who filibuster housing bills.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Councils are supposed to award contracts based on best value, which DOESN'T necessarily mean "bottom price", if your procurement people are prepared to put in the work and do a thorough CBA on each tender, but often does if - like many local authorities - you've made your senior staff redundant, and the people doing the procurement are basically junior staff with new job titles and bigger responsibilities, whose main ambition is to just not fuck up.

indeed. the amount of 'pre-qualification' bumf that's required before you can even bid for any sort of council contract is usually fairly huge.

how much of it is relevant, or how much of it's checked can vary.

and the procurement people tend to be procurement specialists, and may not know the first thing about the goods / services they are telling specialist officers how to procure. it also depends whether the specialist officers are prepared to argue with the procurement people.

in my local authority past, i had a 'discussion' one time i was trying to tender some school bus contracts about whether it was really worth asking bus / coach operators whether they were signed up to some construction industry scheme...

 

[Barking_Mad]

Pretty damning article.

“I only use the mineral wool ones because your gut tells you it is not right to wrap a building in plastic,”

Experts warned government against cladding material used on Grenfell

 

[ViolentPanda]

It really is about time the likes of the scum, daily fail et al had there presses smashed. Close them down.

Captain Swing needs to be disinterred and modernised, Comrade. As does Ned Ludd.

I can see the Guardian headlines now "Corbynist Catpain Gwins leads Lutdide mob to smash printing presses".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Compulsory purchase their offices and turn them into social housing.

IIRC, Mail's offices are in Kensington, so it'd be the right thing to do.

 

[phillm]

Some guy on LBC a min ago was like what if we all dont pay our rent to the council , got shot down but I thought what a great idea , mass squatting FTW , that may tellem

Soon the fight back has to at least be mass occupations , squatting , civil disobedience , protest , marches - I'm in.

 

[redcogs]

Just to say something obvious.. a grim aspect of the working class condition is it's lack of confidence in it's own potential for enforcing positive social changes. The side that desperately needs social and political justice have slept through decades of icy darkness. Do i detact a thaw approaching? We do not need to tolerate the shit that is constantly heaped upon us, be it PIP, or unemployment, or the ordinary, almost invisible daily deprivation.. we can act to protect our interests, and we can do it in memory of our people who have been brutally killed by free market logic. The tragedy of so much slaughter at Grenfell Tower must be the moment when the naked and brutal bullying is confronted.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Soon the fight back has to at least be mass occupations , squatting , civil disobedience , protest , marches - I'm in.

If you don't improve the housing we're living in for your cash gains, we ain't paying the rent, so get to fuck. A collective action that I dream about & that's long overdue. Sadly the residents of Grenfell won't be here to fight for that, but we are!

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Is there actually a government at the moment?

I expect so, someone has to keep the party donations coming in - and that requires drawing up of legislation to suit said donors.

 

[handy1]

Amazing it has not fell in on its own footprint.

 

[davesgcr]

Just a random thought - Posh Boy Cameron has an empty house - about half a mile away - as we are "all in this together" and people are sleeping on floors in church halls etc , with no possessions and worse , could they take a few people in ? No chance ......

Getting sick of all this cutting essential safety and caring jobs (Police, NHS , Fire service etc) , whilst the bankers rebuild their balance sheets on our money and contracted out "service providers" make profits and and shareholder value ....

 

[Humberto]

Read that someone called Peter Jukes on twitter says that S*n journos have been pretending to be injured victims to gain access to the injured in a hospital. They never learn.

 

[Pickman's model]

Read that someone called Peter Jukes on twitter says that S*n journos have been pretending to be injured victims to gain access to the injured in a hospital. They never learn.

Let's hope the sun goes the way of the news of the world

 

[Plumdaff]

Peter Jukes is the journalist behind the Daniel Morgan podcast and book, devastating on police and media corruption. If he's saying it I'd believe it.

 

[J Ed]

 

[Orang Utan]

Let's hope the sun goes the way of the news of the world

Jukes knows a lot about that murky world of The Sun and News Of The World - he did that Byline podcast about the Daniel Morgan murder and implicated many NoW journos, right up to Rebekah Brookes, in their dealings with Jonathan Rees and his lowlife chums.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I fear for this summer- I think there will be blood on the streets and mass disorder- srsly, this will boil over - it will take months to sort the biulding and ID the dead- this will be like a hge gangrenous thumb on the horizon for so many people

 

[Tankus]

people carrying drones ?

""I fear for this summer- I think there will be blood on the streets and mass disorder- srsly, this will boil over - it will take months to sort the biulding and ID the dead- this will be like a hge gangrenous thumb on the horizon for so many people""

got that feeling as well

 

[UrbaneFox]

I know the USA isn't held in the greatest esteem in these boards, but it would have been admirable if say Earls Court had cancelled everything for the next couple of weeks to provide shelter fir those made homeless, in The way that the Dome in New Orleans did after Katrina. I know it's a different situation, but it needs a venue in a massive scale to assist people. Not ideal to be sleeping in an exhibition hall, but it's something.

The Copthorne Tara hotel, just off Kensington High Street would be idea. There are LOADS of hotels in Kensington, no need for people to sleep in mats in the local sports centre.

 

[Ax^]

people carrying drones ?

""I fear for this summer- I think there will be blood on the streets and mass disorder- srsly, this will boil over - it will take months to sort the biulding and ID the dead- this will be like a hge gangrenous thumb on the horizon for so many people""

got that feeling as well

good

it's about time..

 

[not-bono-ever]

it is interesting to see who is actually bothered about helping out in the 'hood- and guess what ? the ever so vocal and pushy large businesses / valubale part of the community etc are silent on the matter. Those on the ground trying to assist are , as ever, those who are in a less better position to be able to assist.This cannot be fixed with a gormless and inaedquate so called PM resiging - this cannot be sorted with some face saving bollocks and crocidile tears from the regime. Have to stay angry about this and use it.

eta- I am calming down now but its still there .

 

[teuchter]

You totally miss the point. The changes were made to the block because of the view from a new structure!

No they weren't. Go and do your homework.

 

[Wilf]

David Lammy going in hard. Interestingly, he mentions the issue of the cladding and the appearance of the building when viewed from the rich areas. Without wanting to kick the whole thing off again, the issue is the plausibility of the idea that the appearance of the cladding was given undue weighting (given what we know about the way central and local government treats social housing).
This was a monstrous crime – there must be arrests after Grenfell Tower | David Lammy

 

[existentialist]

Some services like CBT for PTSD, trauma and so on will only be relevant much later down the line, for this reason, but that doesn't mean access to care, support and counselling is to be omitted altogether now.

What should be there is "critical incident debriefing". I've done that 3 times in schools in the aftermath of suicides, although this would potentially be on a far larger scale. It's not counselling, but is an opportunity for people to be able to come to terms with their feelings about what's happened in a safe environment, and (ideally) get some idea of what support is available down the line if they should need it.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Might be a repost so apols

 

[8den]

Apparently using the more fire retardant cladding would have cost 5k. For the whole fucking building.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

3 solid demands

 

[teuchter]

the issue is the plausibility of the idea that the appearance of the cladding was given undue weighting (given what we know about the way central and local government treats social housing).

It's the plausibility of the idea that the refurb of the block, which was designed to improve its thermal insulation, and add new housing units at the base, was driven primarily or even partly by the desire to change its appearance as viewed from neighbouring areas.

That, or that some alternative cladding, which had better fire performance, was rejected on the grounds that it would not look as nice from neighbouring areas.

Neither seems very plausible to me.

What does seem plausible is that the selection of a more risky cladding material was driven by cost considerations.