Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[teuchter]

As part of the original planning application, the architects submitted a Sustainability & Energy Statement, which can be found in full here:

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc...LUME2&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

The other drawings and documents submitted can be found here:

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/planning/se...=decision&tab=tabs-planning-2#tabs-planning-6

Main page for the application here:

Planning Search

Page regarding cladding (from the Sustainability & Energy Statement):

View attachment 109411

The insulation specified there is this:

Celotex FR5000 Insulation Board

which is a fire resistant PIR board, not polystyrene as widely stated in the papers.

 

[bimble]

Where are all these people going to be rehomed? It's been promised they will all be housed locally, but where?
I doubt there is the political will to do so in our present Government, but can properties be requisitioned in emergencies by local or national governments? It's happened in wartime, so there must be some sort of legislation for it.

I think what was promised in the statement was that "every effort would be made " to rehouse them locally, not that they actually will do so.

 

[Pickman's model]

As part of the original planning application, the architects submitted a Sustainability & Energy Statement, which can be found in full here:

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc...LUME2&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

The other drawings and documents submitted can be found here:

Planning Search

Main page for the application here:

Planning Search

Page regarding cladding (from the Sustainability & Energy Statement):

View attachment 109411

not read all through there but found this little gem


p.8 sustainability & energy statement

i don't suppose the issue of people chucking stuff out of windows was sufficiently severe for it to be a genuine reason for changing the windows. the block i lived in, the issue with people chucking stuff out of windows was a few young people very occasionally throwing stuff from the stairwell, not people chucking from flats

 

[Teaboy]

Yep she is. I've really come to loathe this woman. She is a horrible cunt.

Me too. She is just a soulless robot, incapable of the most basic level of compassion or empathy, no humanity. She is just utterly brutal and comprehensively incompetent, what a fine combination. The interview she gave was like someone had just parked in her parking space or something.

 

[Sprocket.]

May announces a public inquiry, if this was a terror attack people would already be in custody.

 

[existentialist]

So, Pickman's model has a problem with planning legislation being set up to protect people from adverse effects of development near their homes.

When, as appears to be the case here, more care has been taken to improve the exterior than seems to have been taken to ensure the safety of those on the inside, I think he might have a point.

 

[Pickman's model]

May announces a public inquiry, if this was a terror attack people would already be in custody.

evidence would already have been secured.

 

[EastEnder]

I think what was promised in the statement was that "every effort would be made " to rehouse them locally, not that they actually will do so.

"every effort would be made".... that's a bit like when someone invites you to something you don't really want to go to, so you say "I'll try my best to be there", cos it's more polite than saying "never gonna happen".....

 

[Pickman's model]

Me too. She is just a soulless robot, incapable of the most basic level of compassion or empathy, no humanity. She is just utterly brutal and comprehensively incompetent, what a fine combination. The interview she gave was like someone had just parked in her parking space or something.

 

[Pickman's model]

"every effort would be made".... that's a bit like when someone invites you to something you don't really want to go to, so you say "I'll try my best to be there", cos it's more polite than saying "never gonna happen".....

yeh. 'every effort will be made' = 'fuck all will be done'. like when you say 'kind regards' at the end of an email when you feel anything but kind to the recipient, for whom you have no regard.

 

[Dogsauce]

The insulation specified there is this:

Celotex FR5000 Insulation Board

which is a fire resistant PIR board, not polystyrene as widely stated in the papers.

What was specified may have been changed prior to construction, someone may have put in a lower tender using an alternative material which was considered 'acceptable'. I really wouldn't like to be in the shoes right now of anyone involved in such a decision.

The BBC has been reporting it was polyethylene (not polystyrene).

 

[Pickman's model]

What was specified may have been changed prior to construction, someone may have put in a lower tender using an alternative material which was considered 'acceptable'. I really wouldn't like to be in the shoes right now of anyone involved in such a decision.

The BBC has been reporting it was polyethylene (not polystyrene).

[Content removed at request of poster]
Fire Risks From External Cladding Panels – A Perspective From The UK « Probyn Miers

 

[Lord Camomile]

Where are all these people going to be rehomed? It's been promised they will all be housed locally, but where?
I doubt there is the political will to do so in our present Government, but can properties be requisitioned in emergencies by local or national governments? It's happened in wartime, so there must be some sort of legislation for it.

I think what was promised in the statement was that "every effort would be made " to rehouse them locally, not that they actually will do so.

As much as these things make any difference, but surely there's got to be a petition about that? Make it a visible and talked about issue, and show that it's not just the residents that care about it but the general populace too. I'm sure it'd get a hell of a lotta signatures.

 

[Lord Camomile]

"every effort would be made".... that's a bit like when someone invites you to something you don't really want to go to, so you say "I'll try my best to be there", cos it's more polite than saying "never gonna happen".....

Shit. People know about this?!

 

[Orang Utan]

As much as these things make any difference, but surely there's got to be a petition about that? Make it a visible and talked about issue, and show that it's not just the residents that care about it but the general populace too. I'm sure it'd get a hell of a lotta signatures.

petitions don't get things done do they though. the most useless resort of people with no power.

 

[Lord Camomile]

petitions don't get things done do they though. the most useless resort of people with no power.

They get people talking? As I say, it would be a way of keeping the issue in peoples' minds, not letting it get forgotten.

On its own a petition might not do much, but it might set the platform for something that does.

 

[teuchter]

supporting evidence. you know, stuff which supports what you're claiming.

You want the specific planning policy that says planning assessments must consider the impact of development on views from conservation areas? The one that planning officers are obliged to follow when assessing any application in the borough?

 

[Orang Utan]

They get people talking? As I say, it would be a way of keeping the issue in peoples' minds, not letting it get forgotten.

On its own a petition might not do much, but it might set the platform for something that does.

but what would the petition be demanding? there are so many issues here.
people are talking already anyway

 

[Cid]

May announces a public inquiry, if this was a terror attack people would already be in custody.

If this was a terror attack liability might be easier to pin down, and the suspects might pose an immediate threat to the public.

 

[Pickman's model]

You want the specific planning policy that says planning assessments must consider the impact of development on views from conservation areas? The one that planning officers are obliged to follow when assessing any application in the borough?

View attachment 109415

that doesn't say what you think it says

 

[teuchter]

as appears to be the case here, more care has been taken to improve the exterior than seems to have been taken to ensure the safety of those on the inside

Why do you say this appears to be the case?

 

[TruXta]

Housing minister Sharma saying everyone that needs rehousing will be rehoused locally according to graun live feed.

 

[Cid]

but what would the petition be demanding? there are so many issues here.
people are talking already anyway

Innit, they piss me off. They so often focus on one aspect and ignore wider ranging problems, making them easy to dismiss or resolve. And that's the problem sorted.

 

[Orang Utan]

Innit, they piss me off. They so often focus on one aspect and ignore wider ranging problems, making them easy to dismiss or resolve. And that's the problem sorted.

they're only really good for the people who sign them

 

[Pickman's model]

Innit, they piss me off. They so often focus on one aspect and ignore wider ranging problems, making them easy to dismiss or resolve. And that's the problem sorted.

not to mention they rely on the recipient to recognise the wrong that needs righting and ton give a damn about fixing it

 

[Pickman's model]

they're only really good for the people who sign them

names straight to mi5

 

[teuchter]

not read all through there but found this little gem

View attachment 109413
p.8 sustainability & energy statement

i don't suppose the issue of people chucking stuff out of windows was sufficiently severe for it to be a genuine reason for changing the windows. the block i lived in, the issue with people chucking stuff out of windows was a few young people very occasionally throwing stuff from the stairwell, not people chucking from flats

Where does it say that it was the reason for changing the windows? It doesn't. You don't understand the difference between things that justify the decision to install new windows, and things that inform the decision of what type of windows to install, having decided to install new ones.

But thanks for your valuable anecdata about the block you once lived in.

 

[bimble]

Maybe the survivors will be treated well housed locally and provided with all sorts of help, very publically, by the government, and if so great, but that will in no way distract from what has happened.

 

[Cid]

When, as appears to be the case here, more care has been taken to improve the exterior than seems to have been taken to ensure the safety of those on the inside, I think he might have a point.

You have a choice; rainscreen, or some other external insulation solution... The latter probably being render over insulation. Rainscreen has advantages in wet/damp climates (apparently). It might also look a bit better... But basically you're looking at two widely used systems that are considered safe. And, as specified in the planning report, probably are safe. But then it has to go out to tender, and the bills start to look ugly.

 

[Pickman's model]

Where does it say that it was the reason for changing the windows? It doesn't. You don't understand the difference between things that justify the decision to install new windows, and things that inform the decision of what type of windows to install, having decided to install new ones.

But thanks for your valuable anecdata about the block you once lived in.

you've contributed 23 posts to this thread, not one of which shows any empathy or sympathy with the dead or concern with the people who've lost everything, and a far greater concern with riling people here. for that reason from this point forth i'm not responding to your vexatious efforts to turn this thread into the teuchter show.