Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

 

[BemusedbyLife]

There's always one complete arsehole, though I suspect in this instance there'll be more than one.

"If Grenfell Residents Move Into My Flats, I'll Move Out" - LBC

Aren't the ones they're moving into the "compulsorily built affordable housing complete with the poor door?" ones not the fancy ones in the main block, they would have been filled with the poors anyway just a different set of poors than the ones she's getting. She's just making herself look an even bigger arsehole than she no doubt is?

 

[cupid_stunt]

There's always one complete arsehole, though I suspect in this instance there'll be more than one.

"If Grenfell Residents Move Into My Flats, I'll Move Out" - LBC

These flats were always going to be for social housing, instead of them being offered to a housing association they were picked-up by the CoL Corporation instead, they are in separate blocks to the luxury apartments.

The truth behind claims Grenfell residents are being given luxury flats

What are these homes?
The first thing to recognise is that these are not luxury homes that are being re-purposed especially to help ex Grenfell residents, but unfurnished social housing.

Social housing is specially built to be let out by housing associations at below-market rents to people with low incomes.

Housing associations are not-for-profit companies and charities whose function is to provide housing for the less well-off.

Would they have been built anyway?
The Independent has confirmed that the homes in question were built by St Edward as a condition of the granting of planning permission by Kensington and Chelsea Council.

Under Section 106 of the 1990 Town and Country Planning Act, councils can require developers to commit to provide a certain amount of social housing in any new private residential development (or alternatively pay a sum of money to the local authority for investment in social housing elsewhere) as a condition for the granting of approval.

This is what St Edward was doing. These social housing flats were always going to be available for use by low-income Kensington residents at some point.

In the absence of this deal The Independent has also confirmed St Edward would have offered the homes for sale to locally based housing associations. These housing associations would then have then have let out the homes at below-market rents.

There are actually two types of social rent that housing associations are allowed by the Government to charge tenants.

"Social rent" means the rent is around 50 per cent of market rates. "Affordable rent" means about 80 per cent of market rents.

The planning documents of the site suggest they were to be social rent.

But, regardless, those rich people in the development who have reportedly voiced their discontent at poorer folk moving in obviously failed to appreciate that they would have soon have had some new low-income neighbours in any event.

 

[Buckaroo]

These flats were always going to be for social housing, instead of them being offered to a housing association they were picked-up by the CoL Corporation instead, they are in separate blocks to the luxury apartments.

Let's hope they have adequate cladding to insulate the rich from the poor.

 

[salem]

The press (no doubt with some help from the gov) are giving the impression that these guys are being given luxury £2.5bn with concierge, gym and jacuzzi as some kind of consolation prize. Green eyed monster already reading it's head.

I wonder whether the Mail or Sun will be first with the story of someone taking drugs, having a party or having dirty curtains or something? Guarantee there will be dodgy journalists nosing around for a while after people move in waiting for someone to put a foot out of line.

 

[editor]

The owners of Harley Facades Ltd, the sub-contractors that fitted the cladding, used to own Harley Curtain Wall Ltd, which went bust late in 2015 with debts of over £1m after having put almost £2.5m in tax avoidance schemes according to HMRC, then various assets were sold to Harley Facades Ltd.

Grenfell cladding bosses 'put £2.5m into tax avoidance' | Daily Mail Online

Exactly the sort of despicable cunts that capitalism and this fucking government helps create.

 

[editor]

What I've learnt from this is that 'shared ownership' flats somehow get categorised as 'social housing.'
Go figure.

 

[Nylock]

There's always one complete arsehole, though I suspect in this instance there'll be more than one.

"If Grenfell Residents Move Into My Flats, I'll Move Out" - LBC

A lot of the comments on that article made for very depressing reading...

 

[cupid_stunt]

A lot of the comments on that article made for very depressing reading...

Twats will be twats.

 

[killer b]

Don't read the comments ffs. Why would anyone do That?

 

[killer b]

They only exist to make you lose faith in humanity.

 

[Wilf]

Think of Comments Sections as a storage unit for scum.

 

[tim]

With all this talk of so many similar clad buildings going on, isn't it just inviting some religious nutters to go around setting fire to them in the dead of night? Either these religious nutters have no idea, or the government is incompetent by allowing this information to go public so soon. Probably both, as they are as fuck witted as each other.

Yes this truth stuff is not Good for people, they just can't take it. Perhaps, we should provide them instead with a simple secular belief system that would keep them on the straight and narrow.

In the meantime we need to watch out for mullahs with matches, rabbis with magnifying glasses and lighter wielding rectors.

 

[Rob Ray]

Well that's the big conceit isn't it, there's about a million ways to kill or hurt lots of people in a complex modern society, but somehow terror is restricted to the occasional twat doing something half-arsed. It's almost as though the spectacle of organised terror as viewed through the prism of media hysteria has no relation to the reality of its resourcing/levels of organisation/social base or something...

 

[Dandred]

tim Yes this truth stuff is not Good for people, they just can't take it. Perhaps, we should provide them instead with a simple secular belief system that would keep them on the straight and narrow.

In the meantime we need to watch out for mullahs with matches, rabbis with magnifying glasses and lighter wielding rectors.

Christians with burning crosses? I'm sure they would be the worst fire risk, no?

 

[editor]

Just got this:

Grenfell Tower residents evicted from hotel accommodation with hours notice

Today residents of Grenfell Tower were given eviction notices from their temporary accommodation in Kensington, in a move described as ‘barbaric’ by Radical Housing Network.


Residents of Grenfell Tower who had been staying at the Holiday Inn, Kensington, were told today that they were to be separated and moved by 4pm to other temporary hotel accommodation across London, in places such as in Heathrow, Lambeth, Southwark and north London. Following intervention by legal observers, most of the residents have been moved together to a hotel in Westminster.


Pilgrim Tucker, a community activist working with the Grenfell Action Group and liaising with residents at the hotel, said:

“It’s beyond disgusting that after all these people have been through - losing their neighbours and watching their homes burn to the ground - authorities are prepared to tell them that they have hours to pick up their bags and move to some unknown destination, separated from their friends and neighbours. It makes you wonder if anything’s been learned from the Grenfell catastrophe.”

Radical Housing Network, an alliance of which Grenfell Action Group is a member, said:

“Today Grenfell residents staying together in a Kensington hotel were told they were going to be split up and scattered across London at a moment’s notice. Moving people around who have been through horror and trauma from one temporary accommodation to another is barbaric and unnecessary, and speaks of a degree of callousness by the authorities.


“Only yesterday Sajid Javid was promising that all those made homeless by the Grenfell fire would be rehoused in the borough within a matter of weeks. The government needs to move fast to make good on this commitment to rehouse all those made homeless by this catastrophe, according their wishes and needs.


“We still need answers as to what will happen to private renters, subtenants and homeowners of Grenfell Tower. We strongly suggest that given the scale of the disaster - and the trauma, mismanagement and negligence surrounding this case - all tenants of Grenfell, not just council tenants, are prioritised for permanent social housing in the local borough. If no so such social housing is available, we suggest Kensington & Chelsea council dip into their £274 million cash reserves to buy up property and turn it into social housing.

“Grenfell Tower is an indictment of a broken housing system - one where council housing is systematically run down and tenants are treated with contempt.


“It’s about time we had housing for people not for profit - and public investment in secure, decent, genuinely affordable housing for everyone.”

Notes to Editors

Radical Housing Network is a London-wide network of campaigns fighting housing injustice. For all press

 

[editor]

Not the only one, I expect....

161 homes in tower block on Chalcots estate in Camden, north London, to be evacuated due to concerns over cladding

Camden flats to be evacuated over cladding - BBC News

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just got this:

Now why would they want to split them up do you think? They want individuals/not a community. Knowing that together they are stronger, more connected, better organised...I really hope that the RHN and the Grenville Tenants group are keeping track of people. Argggggggggggghhhhhhh!

 

[Casual Observer]

Wouldn't be surprised if Ferrier Point in Newham also gets evacuated soon. Ferrier Point and the Chalcot tower block were both clad and renovated by the lethal Harley Facades/Rydon Construction tag team.

 

[Dogsauce]

There will be a lot of student housing becoming available in a few days time. Probably not appropriate for families, but might tide some people over until permanent replacement accommodation is ready.

I don't imagine it's easy finding places at short notice, even stuff rented privately will need to be checked over to confirm it is safe and appropriate. It a should be part of local authority emergency/contingency planning to have a quantity of family accommodation available for instant occupancy, perhaps somewhere shared by all London boroughs to keep costs reasonable.

 

[salem]

Not the only one, I expect....


Camden flats to be evacuated over cladding - BBC News

That's odd. There are 5 blocks and Taplow is identical to 4 of the others. I wonder why the distinction?

 

[Gramsci]

Can I ask a general question? I've lived in two tower blocks -- one in Hackney until about three years ago, the other in Lambeth in the late 90s -- and in neither of them were there instructions about what to do in a fire.

Signs up saying that the lifts wouldn't work but nothing else at all. Is this normal?

I was quite surprised that the Grenfell Tower residents knew they were meant to stay in their flats -- I'd certainly never heard anything about what you were meant to do.

free spirit

Has posted up about the stay in your flats policy. (this is long thread so can't catch up on everything).His dad who is professional working in building disagreed with this. Idea ( if I understand it correctly) is that fire in one flat can be contained. Leaving enough time for fire service to deal with a fire. Front doors with built in smoke seals mean that people are safer in there flats. In theory. This clearly didn't work in this case.

 

[cybertect]

That's odd. There are 5 blocks and Taplow is identical to 4 of the others. I wonder why the distinction?

The Guardian are reporting all five are being evacuated

Five London tower blocks to be evacuated over safety fears after Grenfell fire

An entire estate in north London is being evacuated after a fire inspection in the wake of the Grenfell Tower disaster found the tower blocks to be unsafe. Temporary accommodation is being sought for about 800 households from the five high-rise buildings on the Chalcot estate. Work to make the blocks safe is expected to take three to four weeks, the leader of Camden council, Labour’s Georgia Gould, said on Friday.

 

[cybertect]

The BBC have updated their story to match

It had initially announced the evacuation of one tower block, Taplow, but later extended the move to all five tower blocks it had checked.

 

[Sue]

free spirit

Has posted up about the stay in your flats policy. (this is long thread so can't catch up on everything).His dad who is professional working in building disagreed with this. Idea ( if I understand it correctly) is that fire in one flat can be contained. Leaving enough time for fire service to deal with a fire. Front doors with built in smoke seals mean that people are safer in there flats. In theory. This clearly didn't work in this case.

I get that. My point is more that there was absolutely nothing up in either of the tower blocks I lived in saying what you should do if there was a fire. Nothing about staying in your flat or leaving. Nothing at all.

 

[gentlegreen]

It seems odd that the Police did independent tests on the Celotex and found it wanting ...
Celotex themselves are simply not now supplying it for buildings over 18 storeys - which seems a bit odd.
It's Celotex's assertion that it complied and that any problems would be as a result of it not being fitted properly.

 

[bluescreen]

It seems odd that the Police did independent tests on the Celotex and found it wanting ...
Celotex themselves are simply not now supplying it for buildings over 18 storeys - which seems a bit odd.
It's Celotex's assertion that it complied and that any problems would be as a result of it not being fitted properly.

Buildings over 18 metres
Suffolk firm Celotex, based in Hadleigh, halts supplies of insulation used in Grenfell Tower cladding

 

[gentlegreen]

So more like 7 storeys ...

 

[bluescreen]

So more like 7 storeys ...

Yep, six or seven - I don't think I'd be comfortable with it even so.

 

[Gramsci]

I get that. My point is more that there was absolutely nothing up in either of the tower blocks I lived in saying what you should do if there was a fire. Nothing about staying in your flat or leaving. Nothing at all.

From reports it does appear that residents had not been made aware of this by signs on communal spaces. Whether they were notified in other ways have to see when inquiry starts.

Some of the big office blocks I go to have regular fire drills. ( They are comparable in size to big blocks of flats) . People have to do it as they are employees. Business recognise that putting up signs is not enough. It's like the lecture you get before a plane takes off. No one takes much notice.


If the stay put policy is to be dropped then fire drills would be needed in tower blocks. To ensure and give people practice in what to do. Good in practice but would people do it?

I go into a lot of private flats and see little info in what to do in event of fire. Except on main notice board. I do see exit clearly marked. But in a panic people might not follow it.