Gammon is not racist
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krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
I'd put money on them both being RBPs. But we'll see sooner or late, I imagine.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Random ball pains?
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
A lot. I mean, my personal yardstick on any thread is “have I posted more than pickmans?”
My advice to lucillemara, whoever they are, is to chose one question and see what the response to that is before moving on.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
...and open the door.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Richard?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
... and have I been banned more than Spymaster.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
CUNTS!!!!!!!... and have I been banned more than Spymaster.
Rapey bloke pardoners?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Well bringing things back from (in my opinion) over intellectual arguments I want to throw in a few real world examples myself and my staff team have faced in the last seven days.
A couple, him white her black lost their temper and abused my staff. He made a series of comments towards the black staff that included highly racislised and abusive terms. She was highly abusive but did not use racially loaded terms.
I had both removed, abuse not being acceptable.
I viewed his abuse as racist and hers merely cultish.
He said he could not be racist pointing to his highly supportive black wife.
Two days later an older black lady with mobility issues was highly abusive towards a white euro staff member shouting "we voted Brexit to get rid of people like you. Fuck off to your own country you bastard"
I intervened and she denied abuse (I witnessed it) and then called me a bastard and after throwing her stick to the floor shouted to all in the crowded area that I had called her a monkey. She carried on in this vein. Harder to throw her out given her age, the risk to my reputation and that of my employer and the growing obviousness of her despicable character.
Still, no travel today for you.
Today a black passenger abused a black driver calling her a bush lady bitch amongst other insults. My colleague (black) dealt with this and got called racially loaded insults himself.
No travel for this passenger.
So getting away from the logically torturous definitions of racism for a minute, let's look at the impacts of these actions.
Incident 1. Staff visibly upset. Vocalising that they endure abuse almost daily.
Incident 2. Staff had terrible weekend, He reported difficulty sleeping and wife had mentioned he was withdrawn. I was really shaken and upset.
Incident 3. The driver was so upset she had to be replaced on her soon to depart international service. She was crying.
For the wider staff team, incidents like these have a real effect on morale. Abuse can be thrown by any human to another and the effects can be large and long lasting.
Which (If any) do you think involved racist abuse?
A couple, him white her black lost their temper and abused my staff. He made a series of comments towards the black staff that included highly racislised and abusive terms. She was highly abusive but did not use racially loaded terms.
I had both removed, abuse not being acceptable.
I viewed his abuse as racist and hers merely cultish.
He said he could not be racist pointing to his highly supportive black wife.
Two days later an older black lady with mobility issues was highly abusive towards a white euro staff member shouting "we voted Brexit to get rid of people like you. Fuck off to your own country you bastard"
I intervened and she denied abuse (I witnessed it) and then called me a bastard and after throwing her stick to the floor shouted to all in the crowded area that I had called her a monkey. She carried on in this vein. Harder to throw her out given her age, the risk to my reputation and that of my employer and the growing obviousness of her despicable character.
Still, no travel today for you.
Today a black passenger abused a black driver calling her a bush lady bitch amongst other insults. My colleague (black) dealt with this and got called racially loaded insults himself.
No travel for this passenger.
So getting away from the logically torturous definitions of racism for a minute, let's look at the impacts of these actions.
Incident 1. Staff visibly upset. Vocalising that they endure abuse almost daily.
Incident 2. Staff had terrible weekend, He reported difficulty sleeping and wife had mentioned he was withdrawn. I was really shaken and upset.
Incident 3. The driver was so upset she had to be replaced on her soon to depart international service. She was crying.
For the wider staff team, incidents like these have a real effect on morale. Abuse can be thrown by any human to another and the effects can be large and long lasting.
Which (If any) do you think involved racist abuse?
Any abuse with a racial epithet attached to it is racist abuse.
I’m willing to accept that the barb is probably more painful for a PoC than than someone who is white, but I don’t think that extends to circumstances where the PoC clearly holds power over someone on the receiving end because of colonialism.
I’m willing to accept that the barb is probably more painful for a PoC than than someone who is white, but I don’t think that extends to circumstances where the PoC clearly holds power over someone on the receiving end because of colonialism.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
All of them.
Next!
Next!
What annoys me about the idpol position of only whites can be racist (because colonialism) is it ignores the volume of PoC who have positions of power. The state accommodates that as their version of equality.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Eastern Europeans can and do suffer racist abuse in the UK. If that abuse comes from a white person or black person, doesn't matter. It's still racist abuse. For me the question is 'is this definition that means black people can't be racist somewhere like the UK' useful or does it in fact muddy the waters and obscure the fact that the same process is repeating itself. Exactly the same things are happening to, for instance, Poles or Romanians today as happened to, for instance, Afro-Caribbean immigrants in generations past: through identification either via physical characteristics or accent or a bit of both, you're identified as 'not from here' and you should 'fuck off back where you came from'. That such attitudes come from a black person in no way diminishes their racist nature.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Sorry TC, no offence intended. Just tickled me reading those three posts in a row
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
When my dad moved from Ireland to England in or around 1960, he travelled around the country for a while and lived in digs for the most part. He reckons when he lived in Birmingham, most B&Bs wouldn't accept 'Paddies', and a lot of them had signs in the windows, stating:
"No Irish, No Blacks, No dogs".
Racism was rife back then, and it didn't matter if you were black or white. You only had to be different.
ETA: Fuck me, it was rife in the 70s/80s. I was the 'Irish bastard' at school. The irony of it is that I was regularly called the "English bastard" when I moved back to Ireland.
Racism is racism. Just because I wasn't black, doesn't mean I wasn't affected by it.
Whilst at the same time Saudi will have been rubbing shoulders with their white counterparts. Racism exists but it can’t be removed from class.
This has fallen deathly silent which is never a good sign. I don’t think any racism towards whites is comparable to that which has existed against non whites in the U.K. I’m an anti-racist and anti-fascist.
What I’m railing against is the liberal tendency to excuse vile behaviour from PoC as either never racially motivated due to it being impossible, or worse - simply down to victim hood.
The decent working class people who get along are thankfully in the majority though. But sometimes the liberal left simply forms the polar opposite position to the far right which is equally unhelpful.
What I’m railing against is the liberal tendency to excuse vile behaviour from PoC as either never racially motivated due to it being impossible, or worse - simply down to victim hood.
The decent working class people who get along are thankfully in the majority though. But sometimes the liberal left simply forms the polar opposite position to the far right which is equally unhelpful.
lucillemara
Member
Hey Magnus you lying streicherite cunt. Don’t pretend to give a fuck about ending rape culture.
I don’t know why people are talking about fascism as if it’s a discrete thing that things are either in or out of, or something that has to tick off a list of fixed criteria. Not interested in making friends either, or the ludicrous idea that being nicer to bad things will make them go away. You have correctly diagnosed my poor social skills, in this context I don’t care.
Idk who dialectician is but I’m not a hegelian or trad marxist and the inconsistent capitalisation is a symptom of twitter overuse (ha I knew it you’re thinking)
Black men and boys were and are lynched in the US with sexual violence as a pretext. Buddhist mobs in Burma and Hindu mobs in India use spurious accusations of this for anti-Muslim pogroms. Rapist fascist Trump began his campaign by proclaiming Mexicans rapists and has a fan base full of angry rapists. The rapist and paedo riddled British bourgeoisie never seems to generate much outrage from self declared protectors of “our women”. The list of far rightists who are rapists and paedophiles is too long to name. There’s also Julian Assange, George Galloway, Mark Ames, Matt Taibbi, SWP fronts and other red-brown predators who still have left followings. Sam Kriss waltzed straight from public school to minor white lefty stardom based on vitriol and half baked gothic lacanian maoist bs before his fall -which somehow didn’t surprise most Black women who knew of him and didn’t have Baffler thinkpieces despite being better writers with actual analysis and being involved in actual resistance.
I’m supposed to be afraid of nameless Pakistani men more than the white men whose colonial sexual violence is downplayed or denied even by white feminists? This kind of rhetoric needs to be shut down with force. Ditto antifeminist arguments downplaying the gendered nature of violence and fascism in favour of racial incitement. Self proclaimed leftists use the liberal myth of free speech to deny the performative nature of this rhetoric. At this point it’s enabling,
Hey remember how the canonical anti-idpol text elevates a misogynist millionaire as a working class hero based on idpol (ignorant white reactionary with woman issues? must be working class!) and vilifies his critics (many working class feminist anarchists and communists, many not white) as a subhuman horde of rich liberals who hate the working class? Leading to harassment of these people by leftyboys that continues to this day? In the context of multiple rape scandals on the left? A text beloved by strasserite antifeminist homophobic rape apologist Angela Nagle, who thinks this is what “materialism” means and whose biggest fans include Aaron Bastani and Richard Spencer? Remember Sam Ambreen, who I was unfavourably compared to earlier? I don’t know her or her history but she’s just been banned by twitter after a sustained campaign of abuse and threats by neo-nazis and has finally had to withdraw from online entirely. The white male left isn’t innocent here. The best person on this thread who I haven’t named is afaik not a white man and I don’t think this fact is irrelevant to her perspective and the reaction to it (oh no identity politics!) here.
All white englishmen end up looking like gammon anyway
I don’t know why people are talking about fascism as if it’s a discrete thing that things are either in or out of, or something that has to tick off a list of fixed criteria. Not interested in making friends either, or the ludicrous idea that being nicer to bad things will make them go away. You have correctly diagnosed my poor social skills, in this context I don’t care.
Idk who dialectician is but I’m not a hegelian or trad marxist and the inconsistent capitalisation is a symptom of twitter overuse (ha I knew it you’re thinking)
Black men and boys were and are lynched in the US with sexual violence as a pretext. Buddhist mobs in Burma and Hindu mobs in India use spurious accusations of this for anti-Muslim pogroms. Rapist fascist Trump began his campaign by proclaiming Mexicans rapists and has a fan base full of angry rapists. The rapist and paedo riddled British bourgeoisie never seems to generate much outrage from self declared protectors of “our women”. The list of far rightists who are rapists and paedophiles is too long to name. There’s also Julian Assange, George Galloway, Mark Ames, Matt Taibbi, SWP fronts and other red-brown predators who still have left followings. Sam Kriss waltzed straight from public school to minor white lefty stardom based on vitriol and half baked gothic lacanian maoist bs before his fall -which somehow didn’t surprise most Black women who knew of him and didn’t have Baffler thinkpieces despite being better writers with actual analysis and being involved in actual resistance.
I’m supposed to be afraid of nameless Pakistani men more than the white men whose colonial sexual violence is downplayed or denied even by white feminists? This kind of rhetoric needs to be shut down with force. Ditto antifeminist arguments downplaying the gendered nature of violence and fascism in favour of racial incitement. Self proclaimed leftists use the liberal myth of free speech to deny the performative nature of this rhetoric. At this point it’s enabling,
Hey remember how the canonical anti-idpol text elevates a misogynist millionaire as a working class hero based on idpol (ignorant white reactionary with woman issues? must be working class!) and vilifies his critics (many working class feminist anarchists and communists, many not white) as a subhuman horde of rich liberals who hate the working class? Leading to harassment of these people by leftyboys that continues to this day? In the context of multiple rape scandals on the left? A text beloved by strasserite antifeminist homophobic rape apologist Angela Nagle, who thinks this is what “materialism” means and whose biggest fans include Aaron Bastani and Richard Spencer? Remember Sam Ambreen, who I was unfavourably compared to earlier? I don’t know her or her history but she’s just been banned by twitter after a sustained campaign of abuse and threats by neo-nazis and has finally had to withdraw from online entirely. The white male left isn’t innocent here. The best person on this thread who I haven’t named is afaik not a white man and I don’t think this fact is irrelevant to her perspective and the reaction to it (oh no identity politics!) here.
All white englishmen end up looking like gammon anyway
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lucillemara
Member
Oh no not the polar opposite of the far right that would be awful.
It’s called antifa, it’s not liberal. Liberalism like yours is pretty friendly to the far right.
It’s called antifa, it’s not liberal. Liberalism like yours is pretty friendly to the far right.
lucillemara
Member
Was Nat Turner racist mags?
Athos
Well-Known Member
lucillemara, what are you calling "the canonical anti-idpol text"?
There’s literally never been a better time for you, ISIS and Tommy Robinson than right now, has there?
All divisionist cunts playing at the same game.
All divisionist cunts playing at the same game.
lucillemara
Member
yep all fascists like you
If you simply mirror it then yeah.
Drop the sock puppet and bring it on then.
lucillemara
Member
vampire castle. mark fisher has written some good stuff but this particular piece of shit is odious and reactionary and he knew exactly what he was doing in the climate it was published. it's still used to attack anyone - feminists, postcolonialists, disabled people, queer people and others - who depart from macho left orthodoxy by not reducing all oppression to a dematerialised colonial model of "class" while claiming to oppose identity politics.
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