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French Presidential elections

heres a poll published 5 days ago
i exaggerated with double, i often do tbh, but its a substantial leadView attachment 100181
That looks to be an aggregate of the previous five published polls. Given that it itself was published 5 days ago, my point stands - hamon got massive boost post primaries. Repeat the exercise with the most recent five published polls and Hamon's lead is going to somewhere between 2 and 4%, with Melenchon returning to around the level he was before the primaries.

He ain't the sort to stand aside anyways, but I see absolutely no reason that it should be expected of him.
 
Thanks very educational(well for me at least).

Shows the big weakness of the two rounds of voting system compared with PR systems imo.
That doesn't make any sense in this case, a presidential election cannot be proportional.

(Well not without having a very different type of presidency)
 
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That's probably the view of some of Mélenchon's supporters. But it's not as if Mélenchon himself has dedicated his life to resisting the centre-left. He was in the PS for 30-odd years. He was a minister. Then he left out of disillusionment that support for the left candidate in the PS leadership election was so low. And guess who that candidate was? None other than Benoit Hamon. So now the wheel has turned, why wouldn't it be logical for Mélenchon to lend a bit of tactical support? It's a much more common thing to do in the French system than in ours.

It's possible that he will, although I don't think it looks particularly likely. But the reasons will be about political calculation.
I not talking about what Mélénchon should do but rather the fact that the "commentators" are presuming/insisting that Mélénchon stand down for Hamon, because how dare he not, that they know what's best and the workers should just fall into line. Sue's post gives a perfect example of this type of thinking.
 
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That looks to be an aggregate of the previous five published polls. Given that it itself was published 5 days ago, my point stands - hamon got massive boost post primaries. Repeat the exercise with the most recent five published polls and Hamon's lead is going to somewhere between 2 and 4%, with Melenchon returning to around the level he was before the primaries.

The first part is right (I make it 3.8%, if you take the five most recent polls), but not the second. LFI averaged 13.8% in the five before the primary and are on 11.7% in the most recent five. So, it's only a partial recovery.

He ain't the sort to stand aside anyways, but I see absolutely no reason that it should be expected of him.

No, it shouldn't be expected, unless it's the clear wish of his group (which I don't believe it is). My point was more about the rationale. It doesn't make sense to see Mélenchon trafficking with the PS left as an unacceptable compromise, given that getting someone like Hamon in the Elysée is precisely the goal that Mélenchon has spent most of his adult life working for.
 
Riots in Paris tonight over allegations that a 22 year old black lad was sexually assaulted by a police officer.

Riots in Charlotte, North Carolina following a police shooting no doubt secured many votes for Trump.
 
Riots in Paris tonight over allegations that a 22 year old black lad was sexually assaulted by a police officer.

Riots in Charlotte, North Carolina following a police shooting no doubt secured many votes for Trump.
It's an appalling story. Has anyone actually been charged yet? And the riots are so understandable - - and self-defeating. Not only do they harden hearts in favour of Le Pen, but when they burn cars, those cars probably belong to some poor mec like them who just needs to get to work.
 
It's an appalling story. Has anyone actually been charged yet? And the riots are so understandable - - and self-defeating. Not only do they harden hearts in favour of Le Pen, but when they burn cars, those cars probably belong to some poor mec like them who just needs to get to work.

AFAIK no one has been charged, nor does it look like they will be.

A quick peruse of French social media seems to indicate that it isn't just Le Pen partisans who are shaken up and having their heats hardened by these riots either.
 
J Ed do you have any sense of whether the story is even true? It's so vile it's plausible in both senses of the word. But I can't see who really benefits if it's a fiction.
 
J Ed do you have any sense of whether the story is even true? It's so vile it's plausible in both senses of the word. But I can't see who really benefits if it's a fiction.

I have no idea whatsoever about the subject, very little knowledge of French politics or France in general. A quick read of the accounts of the event in Anglophone and Francophone media have left me with the same impression I had when I first heard about it, I don't understand how you can sexually assault a person with a baton 'accidentally'.
 
Quite. It reminds me of that rich ME person who accidentally penetrated a woman when he fell on her.
Ehsan Abdulaziz acquitted of rape. English justice at its finest.
 
So now it looks like Fillon will be indicted, up until now he has refused to stand down as his party's candidate. Will he now?
 
The FT notes market wobbling both in respect to the likelihood of an FN win but also on the ramifications of that win.

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Both of these inferences are wrong. The risk of a President Le Pen is far lower than the ex ante risk of Brexit or President Trump was last year, but the consequence of her winning would be far worse. This time, the “experts” are not exaggerating how bad it could be for markets.

Why is Marine Le Pen unlikely to win the French Presidency, when she is in the lead in the first round of the contest, according to many recent polls? The answer is fairly obvious. Although she may win a small plurality over her several opponents in the first round, the anti Le Pen vote should coalesce in the second round, so she will lose to any likely alternative candidate in the run off. While about a quarter of the electorate make her their first choice for the Presidency, about 60-65 per cent prefer anyone else but her in the second round. Under the French two-round voting system, the 35-40 per cent ceiling on her likely vote will stop her winning. If that is so obvious, why did the markets have a brief panic last Monday? The proximate cause was the setback to the campaign of the former Prime Minister Francois Fillon, who has lost his status as front runner since facing allegations of embezzlement of public funds.

If he now limps into the run off as a weakened candidate, Ms Le Pen might be slightly more likely to win. Others have seen a different risk. At present, there are two fairly extreme candidates from the left, Benoit Hamon and Jean-Luc Melenchon, polling around 15 per cent and 11 per cent respectively. While they are splitting the left vote, neither is likely to reach the second round. However, if one of them stands aside in favour of the other, it is just about possible that one of them might beat Mr Fillon and centre left Emmanuel Macron, currently the favourite to win, into the second round. Ms Le Pen might then stand a better chance to win the run off against an opponent from outside the political centre. An unlikely series of events, but perhaps conceivable.

The only outcome that would genuinely trouble the global markets is a victory for Le Pen. Matthieu Walterspiler, the French strategist at Fulcrum, reckons there is still only a 10-15 per cent chance of that happening. That is a far lower risk than the likelihood of votes for Brexit or President Trump in 2016, both of which appeared only mildly improbable ahead of the event. Therefore, the shock would be much larger. Now let us enter the very unlikely territory where Ms Le Pen is triumphant. Would this be like Brexit, a much feared event that had little immediate effect on markets (other than sterling) when it happened? I think not.

Marine Le Pen would ascend to the Presidency within a week, perhaps giving the National Front enough momentum to win a majority in the National Assembly elections on 18 June. She would need that majority to call a referendum on French membership of the EU, including the euro, possibly in the autumn. Polls have traditionally suggested that France would vote about 55-45 in favour of staying in the EU but, in these political circumstances, who knows?

The markets would obviously need to price in a non negligible risk that France would exit the euro, possibly taking many or all other members with it. This fear would generate substantial capital outflows from France, anticipating a currency devaluation. While the ECB could, in theory, keep the euro intact by allowing Target 2 imbalances to rocket, it is far from clear that Germany would allow this to happen. In a break up of the euro, these imbalances would amount to large loans from the Bundesbank to the European monetary system, loans that might not be fully repaid by exiting countries. The political pressure inside Germany to take the initiative by re-establishing the Deutsche mark, would intensify. Le Pen has taken a more optimistic view, claiming that France could leave the euro without much disruption. In a different political universe that might be possible. What would that universe look like?

The French franc could be restored in the domestic economy, and could then be devalued in the same way that sterling adjusted downwards last year. The Bank of France could be given an inflation objective, and told to set interest rates independently to achieve it

..but... not to worry FT readers..

After two years of political strife, Mitterrand abandoned his election platform, and chose the path of European integration. But the markets experienced enormous turmoil in between.

More fews from capital...

Even a Le Pen Win Won’t Be Enough to Break Up Euro, Banks Say

Credit Agricole SA
  • The polls suggest that Le Pen will lose at the second round to either Macron or Fillon and this can explain the relative resilience of the euro of late, London-based strategist Valentin Marinov said in e-mailed comments on Feb. 9. “This may be misleading, however, and we advise cautiousness,” he added
  • Still, a victory for Le Pen shouldn’t automatically translate into a French exit from the euro zone. “An exit would be a long and complex process” as it would require a constitutional amendment, Marinov added
  • The bank assigns a 35 percent chance to Le Pen winning in the second round of elections, in line with polls

Barclays Plc

  • The chances of Le Pen winning the second round of the presidential election are “very, very small”, unless Benoit Hamon or Jean-Luc Melenchon qualifies against Le Pen, London-based economist Francois Cabau wrote in e-mailed comments
  • “In any case, her party is extremely unlikely to come remotely close to an absolute majority in the lower house in the June general elections. She would have to accept cohabitation and thus would not be able to govern strictly following her manifesto”
  • Moreover, “exiting Europe means amending the constitution and barriers to get it done are quite high, in terms of the Parliament approval process," Cabau added
UniCredit SpA
  • There is certainly a measurable risk of Le Pen winning, Erik Nielsen, chief economist in London, said in e-mailed comments on Feb. 9
  • “All polls have her cruise into the second round, and once you have a one against one, you really never know what’s going to happen,” he added
  • “All in all, France leaving the euro zone remains a very low risk,” according to Nielsen, as Le Pen is unlikely to get a majority in the parliament and “there is still a majority in favor of the euro zone” in France
Commerzbank AG
  • Chances of Le Pen winning the second round of election seen at 20%, Frankfurt-based economist Joerg Kraemer wrote in e-mailed comments
  • “A victory of Le Pen in the presidential election would probably lead France to leave the EMU. And without the political and economic heavyweight France, the rest of EMU is unlikely to survive," the economist added
  • “The news of a Le Pen victory would cause massive capital flight not only out of France but also out of the peripheral countries such as Italy. Capital controls and banking holidays would follow, which could be the start of the end of EMU,” he wrote
Nomura Holdings Inc.
  • None of the opinion polls in any of the countries that face elections this year suggest a high scope for an anti-establishment shock, Andrew Cates, London based economist at the bank, said in a notes to client on Feb. 9
    • Any anti-establishment candidate would potentially face formidable legislative hurdles in any anti-EU endeavors
  • The base case at Nomura is that Emmanuel Macron will win the French presidential election, Charles St-Arnaud said in a note to clients on Feb. 10. Still, his party is unlikely to gain a majority of seats in the Assemblee Nationale and form the government and a period of “cohabitation”, where the president’s powers are reduced to the benefit of the prime minister, is likely
  • The probability of the election of Le Pen as president, while low, cannot be fully ruled out yet. Again, she will probably be forced into a period of cohabitation which would make it hard for her to call a referendum on France’s EU membership and the matter may end up being decided by the courts
  • “We believe that ultimately the court could rule in favor of a referendum because of precedents and strong popular support for a referendum”

JPMorgan Chase & Co.

  • There is a strong likelihood that Le Pen reaches the second round of the presidential election but she would most likely lose by a decent margin against any opponent, London-based economist Raphael Brun-Aguerre wrote in a note to clients on Feb. 7
  • The odds of Le Pen obtaining a majority in parliament is low and a period of cohabitation would be likely if she wins the presidential election
 
I've seen press on both sides of la Manche talking up Macron more and more as the anti-FN candidate in the final round.
 
High number of young people back Le Pen



This fits with earlier polling, IMO this is one of the signs that Le Pen may outperform polling.
 
High number of young people back Le Pen



This fits with earlier polling, IMO this is one of the signs that Le Pen may outperform polling.


You think there will be a disproportionately high turnout among younger voters?
 
.....if anti EU feeling is running at over 60% in France ( as of June 2016 ) and support for the FN is 26% then there's some sort of reservoir of anti EU opinion that won't support the FN but might be a factor - even if just by virtue of non-participation a la the "missing" democrat voters who didn't turn up for Clinton

Le Pen seems to have shifted to some sort of confusing parallel currency arrangement - half-in & half-out rather than straight up "Ditch the euro" - which will either have a net effect of turning off and confusing her base or bringing more cautious opinion on side ( more likely the former I'd have thought )


PM_2016.06.07_brexit-01.png


EU favorability varies widely in Europe
 
Libération is following Le Canard echaîné in producing more evidence against Fillon. He's under official investigation for mis-declairing his fees from overseas speeches.
 
I guess LR are pretty screwed, they either back him with all this shit hanging over him, or cut him adrift and have a load of infighting when he won't go quietly.
 
So speaking to some French friends tonight seems it's all about whether Melenchon or Hamon is going to lead the Left in the second round. Ffs.
 
So speaking to some French friends tonight seems it's all about whether Melenchon or Hamon is going to lead the Left in the second round. Ffs.
Sorry, they're hoping for one to stand down, or they're predicting that one will?
 
Emmanuel Macron: the French outsider who would be president

long profile of Macron here...comes across as a big ego Randian freemarketer with some social justice impulses. The one redeeming characteristic seems to be his occassional challenge in an upfront way to some of the increasingly chauvanistic narratives out there in France these days....his denouncement of France's history in Algeria, particularly at this time, was...good. Hard to know how calculated such pronouncements are, but it beats complicit silence to win FN votes
 
Justice Pour Theo marches continue, ending in violence again. Easy to see how this can continue to spiral, and how with a further compromised Fillon, we could subsequently end up with an FN government.
 
Emmanuel Macron: the French outsider who would be president

long profile of Macron here...comes across as a big ego Randian freemarketer with some social justice impulses. The one redeeming characteristic seems to be his occassional challenge in an upfront way to some of the increasingly chauvanistic narratives out there in France these days....his denouncement of France's history in Algeria, particularly at this time, was...good. Hard to know how calculated such pronouncements are, but it beats complicit silence to win FN votes

Fillon wasn't silent about Algeria, and other French colonialism, he was actively supportive of that history.
 
This is a really interesting read, paints Florian Philippot as a sort of Pim Fortyn style figure, on social issues not economics, and discusses some of the ideology complexities of the FN and its current direction. He seems to be responsible for a lot of the FN's 'modernisation' efforts, both in terms of relative, and of course selective, social liberalism and also its re-orientation towards winning the votes of the working-class in post-industrial areas by proposing a protectionist economic platform.

The man who could make Marine Le Pen president of France
 
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