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Feminism and the silencing of women

Teenage self-pity has always been a thing. Hell, I had a bucket-load in my youth. Just look at the lyrics of the 90s song Creep, for example — “I’m a creep, I’m a weirdo, what the hell am I doing here?” The thing is, it never remotely crossed my mind to project this self-pity outwards and give shape to it as misogyny. What am I saying here? I’m certainly not saying that this kind of projection is new — it most definitely isn’t. I guess that I’m concerned that it now, however, has a form and organisation that does seem to be of a far newer typology. A systemic and systematic phenomenon that preys on self-doubt.
 
from what I've heard they spend an awful lot of time talking about they don't have the apparently prefect facial proportions and strong enough to chin to ever attract the sexy girls so they are valueless may as well 'lie die and rot'
Yes, I've come across a lot of men with this concern (online). A deep self-loathing, coupled with entitlement (to women's bodies, to women), and angry resentment. It's a very confused mix of anger, hatred, self-loathing wrapped up in misogyny and sexist attacks on women.

Anyway, I'm aware I've veered into talking about incels, which is sort of the opposite of not silencing women. It's focusing on the men. Not about women's voices and concerns being heard.
 
So I asked my daughter about the latest discussion...which involved talks between the girls and boys but has not been encouraging.granddaughter got into trouble for calling a boy sexist...and was told, by the teacher, not to say mean things. Am on my phone, post party so struggling to write at any length but this is ongoing, angry and I dunno if because its Norfolk, somewhat regressive.
 
So I asked my daughter about the latest discussion...which involved talks between the girls and boys but has not been encouraging. granddaughter got into trouble for calling a boy sexist...and was told, by the teacher, not to say mean things. Am on my phone, post party so struggling to write at any length but this is ongoing, angry and I dunno if because its Norfolk, somewhat regressive.
Burn it all to the ground.
 
The other day I had to go and talk to some officials at a golf club. On behalf of an organisation I'm involved with.

I expected it to be a bloke I'd be speaking to (golf clubs tending to be more male-run I was guessing), so rather than go alone, I took a male friend along, so he could just be there in the background, while I said my piece. I thought I'd get a better reception with a male presence there also.

As it was, it was a woman I spoke to. The receptionist. She was fine. But I'd geared myself up for 'confrontation' (possibly) with a male official, and didn't expect 'lone woman wanders into a golf club' to really have much impact. I expected an attempt would be made to silence me. The receptionist doesn't ultimately have any say on the issue I went there to discuss, so we shall see what the (male) Chairperson, and the (probably mostly male) committee say in response to the email I've sent them following my visit.

In fact, thinking about it, there already had been an attempt at silencing me. When I mentioned I was going to go and speak to the golf club about this issue, a male acquaintance who's a member there, had already tried to dissuade me, telling me it wouldn't go down well, and I'd get fobbed off. I ignored his advice.

It's really crap this isn't it. That in many instances, you automatically get a better hearing and more attention paid to you if you're male. Not by virtue of anything else. And are more likely to be dismissed/not taken seriously if you're female.
 
The other day I had to go and talk to some officials at a golf club. On behalf of an organisation I'm involved with.

I expected it to be a bloke I'd be speaking to (golf clubs tending to be more male-run I was guessing), so rather than go alone, I took a male friend along, so he could just be there in the background, while I said my piece. I thought I'd get a better reception with a male presence there also.

As it was, it was a woman I spoke to. The receptionist. She was fine. But I'd geared myself up for 'confrontation' (possibly) with a male official, and didn't expect 'lone woman wanders into a golf club' to really have much impact. I expected an attempt would be made to silence me. The receptionist doesn't ultimately have any say on the issue I went there to discuss, so we shall see what the (male) Chairperson, and the (probably mostly male) committee say in response to the email I've sent them following my visit.

In fact, thinking about it, there already had been an attempt at silencing me. When I mentioned I was going to go and speak to the golf club about this issue, a male acquaintance who's a member there, had already tried to dissuade me, telling me it wouldn't go down well, and I'd get fobbed off. I ignored his advice.

It's really crap this isn't it. That in many instances, you automatically get a better hearing and more attention paid to you if you're male. Not by virtue of anything else. And are more likely to be dismissed/not taken seriously if you're female
That fact that you had to psych your self up and expected difficulty means it took far more energy than it ought to. A factor that few men have to consider and many are unaware of all that effort.

Did you get no further than reception?
 
The other day I had to go and talk to some officials at a golf club. On behalf of an organisation I'm involved with.

I expected it to be a bloke I'd be speaking to (golf clubs tending to be more male-run I was guessing), so rather than go alone, I took a male friend along, so he could just be there in the background, while I said my piece. I thought I'd get a better reception with a male presence there also.

As it was, it was a woman I spoke to. The receptionist. She was fine. But I'd geared myself up for 'confrontation' (possibly) with a male official, and didn't expect 'lone woman wanders into a golf club' to really have much impact. I expected an attempt would be made to silence me. The receptionist doesn't ultimately have any say on the issue I went there to discuss, so we shall see what the (male) Chairperson, and the (probably mostly male) committee say in response to the email I've sent them following my visit.

In fact, thinking about it, there already had been an attempt at silencing me. When I mentioned I was going to go and speak to the golf club about this issue, a male acquaintance who's a member there, had already tried to dissuade me, telling me it wouldn't go down well, and I'd get fobbed off. I ignored his advice.

It's really crap this isn't it. That in many instances, you automatically get a better hearing and more attention paid to you if you're male. Not by virtue of anything else. And are more likely to be dismissed/not taken seriously if you're female.
Could you clarify pls, you say you went to talk to some officials at the golf club but the only person you seem to have spoken to was the receptionist. Had you had any correspondence with them beforehand? Anyway, I hope your future dealings with them go the way you want
 
The other day I had to go and talk to some officials at a golf club. On behalf of an organisation I'm involved with.

I expected it to be a bloke I'd be speaking to (golf clubs tending to be more male-run I was guessing), so rather than go alone, I took a male friend along, so he could just be there in the background, while I said my piece. I thought I'd get a better reception with a male presence there also.

As it was, it was a woman I spoke to. The receptionist. She was fine. But I'd geared myself up for 'confrontation' (possibly) with a male official, and didn't expect 'lone woman wanders into a golf club' to really have much impact. I expected an attempt would be made to silence me. The receptionist doesn't ultimately have any say on the issue I went there to discuss, so we shall see what the (male) Chairperson, and the (probably mostly male) committee say in response to the email I've sent them following my visit.

In fact, thinking about it, there already had been an attempt at silencing me. When I mentioned I was going to go and speak to the golf club about this issue, a male acquaintance who's a member there, had already tried to dissuade me, telling me it wouldn't go down well, and I'd get fobbed off. I ignored his advice.

It's really crap this isn't it. That in many instances, you automatically get a better hearing and more attention paid to you if you're male. Not by virtue of anything else. And are more likely to be dismissed/not taken seriously if you're female.

Maybe one of the many reasons that the system prefers women receptionists is because it effectively silences women?

I may be reaching here. But if a woman tries to speak to someone higher up who is likely to be a man, encountering g a woman gatekeeper might make her feel less like fighting her way through?
 
Maybe one of the many reasons that the system prefers women receptionists is because it effectively silences women?

I may be reaching here. But if a woman tries to speak to someone higher up who is likely to be a man, encountering g a woman gatekeeper might make her feel less like fighting her way through?
I thought it was the same reason dewey of dewey decimal fame proposed women working in libraries rather than men, for reasons of paying them less.
 
No. I thought the direct in person approach was my best bet, rather than initial contact by email which would be easier to ignore. I hoped to 'catch them on the hop'. But no one was there unfortunately. And the receptionist was quite an effective gatekeeper. Or just doing her job well.
Cheers - pm incoming
 
Maybe one of the many reasons that the system prefers women receptionists is because it effectively silences women?

I may be reaching here. But if a woman tries to speak to someone higher up who is likely to be a man, encountering g a woman gatekeeper might make her feel less like fighting her way through?
Not sure. I had a good go at trying to speak to someone 'higher up', whilst at the same time not wanting to just imply she wasn't important enough to talk to. It was a productive chat though (which I summarised in my follow up email), but like I said, she probably doesn't get to make the decisions.

I thought female receptionists were mostly 'easy on the eye' for the benefit of the menz, originally.
 
Not sure. I had a good go at trying to speak to someone 'higher up', whilst at the same time not wanting to just imply she wasn't important enough to talk to. It was a productive chat though (which I summarised in my follow up email), but like I said, she probably doesn't get to make the decisions.

I thought female receptionists were mostly 'easy on the eye' for the benefit of the menz, originally.
Eldest Q used to be a office temp primarily working as a receptionist more than anything else, she also did some part-time modelling and promotions work at the same time. She told us that her boss at the temp agency (herself another woman) told Eldest to make sure the latter was always on the top line of her CV since it would get her more work than any secretarial skills she might have.
 
Maybe one of the many reasons that the system prefers women receptionists is because it effectively silences women?

I may be reaching here. But if a woman tries to speak to someone higher up who is likely to be a man, encountering g a woman gatekeeper might make her feel less like fighting her way through?
There’s no way that the decision maker has been through this explicit reasoning process but in effect, yes. This is a key reason. It’ll be couched in terms of the individual being “good at conflict de-escalation” or something like that, but mysteriously these competencies will tend to overlap with typically female-socialised characteristics
 
There’s no way that the decision maker has been through this explicit reasoning process but in effect, yes. This is a key reason. It’ll be couched in terms of the individual being “good at conflict de-escalation” or something like that, but mysteriously these competencies will tend to overlap with typically female-socialised characteristics
You're saying that decision-makers don't actively recruit female gatekeepers such as GP receptionists at rate of pay that lower skilled gatekeepers typically female earn?
 
You're saying that decision-makers don't actively recruit female gatekeepers such as GP receptionists at rate of pay that lower skilled gatekeepers typically female earn?
No, I’m saying that they’ll tell themselves that they are happy to recruit people of either gender… just so long as they accept a particular rate of pay and particular working hours and exhibit particular characteristics and competencies and so on. That’s exactly the process that institutionalises the sexism. It becomes depersonalised, and turned into “objective” criteria that oh look just happen to coincide with one group over another
 
Not sure. I had a good go at trying to speak to someone 'higher up', whilst at the same time not wanting to just imply she wasn't important enough to talk to. It was a productive chat though (which I summarised in my follow up email), but like I said, she probably doesn't get to make the decisions.

I thought female receptionists were mostly 'easy on the eye' for the benefit of the menz, originally.

Anorher of the many reasons.

Maybe the gatekeeping factor - if so it be - is just the patriarchal cherry on top of the misogyny cake.
 
No, I’m saying that they’ll tell themselves that they are happy to recruit people of either gender… just so long as they accept a particular rate of pay and particular working hours and exhibit particular characteristics and competencies and so on. That’s exactly the process that institutionalises the sexism. It becomes depersonalised, and turned into “objective” criteria that oh look just happen to coincide with one group over another

Yes. And then men who do such jobs are variously cast as lesser than their more manly brothers. Making it less likely that men will go after those jobs and round we go again.
 
No, I’m saying that they’ll tell themselves that they are happy to recruit people of either gender… just so long as they accept a particular rate of pay and particular working hours and exhibit particular characteristics and competencies and so on. That’s exactly the process that institutionalises the sexism. It becomes depersonalised, and turned into “objective” criteria that oh look just happen to coincide with one group over another
I agree. And it feeds into the gender pay scales and audits by which corporation mostly hold themselves clean. But back on the ground professional men recruit women to do their gatekeeping. There's also a class vector because middle class women wave this shit through, for the sale of example, as Women's captain of the golf course etc etc.
 
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