Fate of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit

[ska invita]

What is about to happen to the 3.5 million EU citizens living in the UK? For a start everyone needs to 'register' on this government app thing.

This article looks at people experiencing signing up
Britain’s E.U. Exit App Is About to Downgrade the Lives of 3.7 Million People
The key thing is how many people wont sign up, due to a range of barriers

In order to cope with the volume of applications, which could reach some twenty thousand a day in the spring, the E.U. Settlement Scheme is intended to be almost entirely digital. Immigration advocates fear that this will disadvantage applicants who are poorer, older, and don’t speak much English. “It is almost designed for an educated civil servant that would have no problems navigating it,” Colin Yeo, an immigration barrister and blogger, told me.

Trevena translated the questions on the phone’s screen for Daniela. Each individual in the system, including children, must be linked to an e-mail address and a phone number—another source of anxiety for lawyers and campaigners. “Most of my young people use those ones that give you six months of free Internet and then you chuck it,” Trevena said. She stressed to Daniela and Beatriz the importance of updating their details. Mother and daughter wore matching pairs of sensible black shoes. Because they have been in the U.K. for only two years, they were applying for “pre-settled status,” which would allow them to stay in the country until 2023, when they could register permanently. “If you change your number, you need to call them and let them know. Otherwise you will get locked out of your status,” Trevena explained slowly. “You are going to need your status for every job, every house.”

For a while, the room filled with the sound of text messages arriving, among them security PINs that Trevena entered into the system to link Daniela and Beatriz to their applications. (At one point, a friend of Beatriz’s popped in for a minute and the teen-agers swapped phones and it became unclear who was texting whom about what.) Then it was time to take photographs to feed into the facial-recognition software. Trevena looked across the desk at Beatriz, who had her hair bunched into two small, Princess Leia-style buns over her ears. “This is definitely the hair for a future employer?” Trevena asked. Beatriz thought so. Trevena passed her the government phone. The screen flashed green then yellow then red, and numbers counted down. Beatriz arranged her expression into a light scowl. The phone clicked. Trevena looked at the screen. “Is that your forever photo?” she asked. Daniela came over and mother and daughter contemplated the image. “Sí,” they agreed.

The Home Office is aiming for a hundred-per-cent participation rate in the E.U. Settlement Scheme, although that is not what happens in this kind of program. Migrant regularizations, like the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, in the U.S., or the amnesty for foreign workers in Spain, in 2005, typically have enrollment rates of between fifty and seventy-five per cent. (The Spanish program, which got up to seventy-seven per cent, after six attempts, was viewed as a triumph.)

No one knows why British officials are so confident. “We don’t think there has ever been any kind of exercise of this scale anywhere in the world,” Yeo told me. If ninety per cent of Britain’s E.U. nationals register before June 30, 2021, when the program ends, more than three hundred and fifty thousand people will still be undocumented, at the mercy of the U.K.’s so-called “hostile environment” toward irregular migrants. “They are going to be illegal on the day after the deadline,” Yeo told me. “Under current government policy, they need to be evicted, their bank accounts shut down, and they lose their jobs if they have got one.” That is what happened in the Windrush scandal, in which the victims of another botched regularization program—this time for immigrants from Britain’s colonies in the Caribbean—ended up losing their jobs, being denied medical care, and being threatened with deportation. “I have started to wonder whether I am wrong and they do understand what they are doing,” Yeo said. “And they just don’t care.”

This looks at who are most vulnerable and what the barriers are
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac....-failing-to-secure-their-rights-after-brexit/

This is an unprecedented attempt to sign up 'undocumented' poeple.
Simliar US schemes resulted in an average 60% sign up rate. UK government expect 100%.
Those who do not sign up will become illegal and ready for hostile environment deportation

Said better here

The Home Office is aiming for a hundred-per-cent participation rate in the E.U. Settlement Scheme, although that is not what happens in this kind of program. Migrant regularizations, like the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, in the U.S., or the amnesty for foreign workers in Spain, in 2005, typically have enrollment rates of between fifty and seventy-five per cent. (The Spanish program, which got up to seventy-seven per cent, after six attempts, was viewed as a triumph.)

No one knows why British officials are so confident. “We don’t think there has ever been any kind of exercise of this scale anywhere in the world,” Yeo told me. If ninety per cent of Britain’s E.U. nationals register before June 30, 2021, when the program ends, more than three hundred and fifty thousand people will still be undocumented, at the mercy of the U.K.’s so-called “hostile environment” toward irregular migrants. “They are going to be illegal on the day after the deadline,” Yeo told me. “Under current government policy, they need to be evicted, their bank accounts shut down, and they lose their jobs if they have got one.” That is what happened in the Windrush scandal, in which the victims of another botched regularization program—this time for immigrants from Britain’s colonies in the Caribbean—ended up losing their jobs, being denied medical care, and being threatened with deportation. “I have started to wonder whether I am wrong and they do understand what they are doing,” Yeo said. “And they just don’t care.”

This is the key line:
EVEN If ninety per cent of Britain’s E.U. nationals register before June 30, 2021, when the program ends, more than three hundred and fifty thousand people will still be undocumented, at the mercy of the U.K.’s so-called “hostile environment” toward irregular migrants. “They are going to be illegal on the day after the deadline,”

Fuck That.

Bear in mind people without British ciitzenship are already being denied housing and jobs at this time by employers and landlords.
UK landlords are turning away EU citizens
Europeans need not apply: evidence mounts of discrimination in UK
This is a crisis waiting to happen - and for some already happening

This may be a bit of a slow burning thread as the process will be drawn out - I think registartion officially kicks in in March.


Do we have any UK resident EU citiznes who post on the boards? Or friends and partners? Those closest to me have already left.

 

[Pickman's model]

this *will* end well - the utter fuck up that's coming, that is, not this thread

 

[StoneRoad]

And will the reverse process happen to UK citizens over the ditch, somewhere in Europe ?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I know people who've left and others who are planning to leave after being here more than 20 years. Also know two people who forked out the 1400 quid to apply for citizenship due to the uncertainty, one of whom still plans to fuck the fuck off. Doesn't feel welcome here any more.

The piece has it exactly right that this is another Windrush scandal waiting to happen. It is also yet another layer of regulation and control. It fucking stinks, and not only for those directly involved, for all of us. This is what has angered me the most about this disgusting process, and the fact that May of all fucking people is in charge of it is just a kick in the fucking face.

 

[Reno]

Do we have any UK resident EU citiznes who post on the boards? Or friends and partners? Those closest to me have already left.

Six months after the referendum result, I had sold my London flat and moved back to Germany after 33 years in the UK. Following the ongoing shit-show that is Brexit from a safe distance, it's the best decision I've made in a long time.

I have friends who are EU citizens who still live in the UK and others who have left. One of my best friends in London is German and she has family there, but now that her sons are grown up, even she is considering leaving.

 

[spitfire]

My girlfriend is French (and my daughter as well despite being born in Whitechapel, we're not married).

She's lived here and paid tax for 25 years and has said she's not paying any fucker any money to stay here.

I'm Irish but was born here so could probably wriggle through but fuck them, I'm not going on a register.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

My step-mother is Dutch, she's been here 30 odd years and is not planning on doing anything. tbf she is the most hostile human being I have ever met, so I doubt she'd notice if there was an increase in hostility towards EU citizens.

 

[xenon]

It's what the people wanted...

Ha, remember when David Davis was so anti ID cards... I wonder if he's got anything to say about this.

 

[DexterTCN]

The Scottish (SNP) government said that they would pay the fee for any EU citizen up here who had to register.

The UK government responded by saying they would not accept this and the people have to pay it themselves.

 

[ska invita]

I'm Irish but was born here so could probably wriggle through but fuck them, I'm not going on a register.

i wonder if theres any mileage in a noncompliance campaign? sounds risky

being "illegal" means bank accounts closed on you, fired from a job, no access to health care, deportation <hundreds of thousands of people about to be put in that situation

 

[ska invita]

This is what has angered me the most about this disgusting process, and the fact that May of all fucking people is in charge of it is just a kick in the fucking face.

...and even without her Tory leaders respawn....and as to putting faith in Labour to do any better.

This process must be killed off before it runs, right?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

...and even without her Tory leaders respawn....and as to putting faith in Labour to do any better.

This process must be killed off before it runs, right?

Yes.

 

[ska invita]

Yes.

Question is how.
I guess at least Norway+ as an option negates it.

I wonder what documentation resistance campaigns have been in the past (US especially i expect).

An issue to press on the Labour Party too (for what its worht)

 

[The39thStep]

Well as UK citizen living in the EU I can't say I'm panicking tbh.I'll just fill in whatever form they require here

 

[Riklet]

I wonder if they'll have their shitty app working for iPhones yet.

I know plenty of young Spanish people and other EU nationals in a few different places and all are a bit unsure or even concerned but very few of them are talking about leaving. Then none of us have houses, kids etc really so it's not such a hard choice to make. Most are generally uncertain about their future but I haven't had anyone extolling the dramatic virtues of returning to France, Italy, Spain, Hungary or Portugal to me recently. Plenty have moved here since Brexit in the past couple of years.

My impression is a fair few Polish people have left because the economy is definitely doing better there and the pound is weak. I bet places like Lincolnshire it's more noticeable, or in NHS sectors etc. Maybe I live in a bubble but having moved back to the England recently - I don't see/feel a hostile environment in the cities. I'm on buses with people talking loudly or arguing in several different languages and not heard a peep out of any weirdos or racists.

Hoping to help out a housing union in the near future and discrimination against EU workers would def be something to watch out for and stand up against.

 

[flypanam]

My girlfriend is French (and my daughter as well despite being born in Whitechapel, we're not married).

She's lived here and paid tax for 25 years and has said she's not paying any fucker any money to stay here.

I'm Irish but was born here so could probably wriggle through but fuck them, I'm not going on a register.

My wife is shitting it, she's Canadian she'll have here 5 years in January she's frustrated because information about the roll out is pretty thin. The thing she's really worried about is getting somewhere to live if our lease isn't renewed.

 

[andysays]

I work as a gardener for a London council. About one third of the workforce are non-UK EU nationals. None of them have expressed any concerns to me about what will happen in March, or about a more hostile atmosphere since the referendum. The council is clearly anticipating that they will still be working for the foreseeable future as out of six of us they paid for to go on a three day training course the other week, three were non-UK EU nationals.

Make of that what you will...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

My wife is shitting it, she's Canadian she'll have here 5 years in January she's frustrated because information about the roll out is pretty thin. The thing she's really worried about is getting somewhere to live if our lease isn't renewed.

How is a Canadian affected by this?

 

[flypanam]

How is a Canadian affected by this?

I'm Irish and she's here as an EU family member

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'm Irish and she's here as an EU family member

Will she not also be here as a family member of an Irish person?

 

[flypanam]

Will she not also be here as a family member of an Irish person?

Nope. Settled and pre-settled status for EU citizens and their families

 

[RubyBlue]

This scheme was trialled in Liverpool and has now been rolled out across (most?) universities. My partner works for LSE and they are paying for all their European staff who apply. He completed his application today and intends staying in the UK after being here 20+ years.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Nope. Settled and pre-settled status for EU citizens and their families

How odd, she'll need to apply and you won't.

 

[flypanam]

How odd, she'll need to apply and you won't.

CTA for you. Worst happens is that we move back to Ireland.

 

[tim]

My girlfriend is French (and my daughter as well despite being born in Whitechapel, we're not married).

She's lived here and paid tax for 25 years and has said she's not paying any fucker any money to stay here.

I'm Irish but was born here so could probably wriggle through but fuck them, I'm not going on a register.

If you're an Irish citizen your right to live here will be unaffected because your right of residence is guaranteed by the 1949 Ireland act, which says you are not a foreigner

Republic of Ireland not a foreign country.
(1)It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom or in any colony, protectorate or United Kingdom trust territory, whether by virtue of a rule of law or of an Act of Parliament or any other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, and references in any Act of Parliament, other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, to foreigners, aliens, foreign countries, and foreign or foreign-built ships or aircraft shall be construed accordingly

 

[spitfire]

If you're an Irish citizen your right to live here will be unaffected because your right of residence is guaranteed by the 1949 Ireland act, which says you are not a foreigner

Well I'm alright then. I guess the other 2 will just fuck off to france. Sorted.

 

[ska invita]

a more hostile atmosphere since the referendum.

I don't see/feel a hostile environment in the cities.

not sure if you are picking up on my use of the word hostile - that was referring to official government policy of Hostility

None of them have expressed any concerns to me about what will happen in March,

I tried to make it 100% clear in the OP, many will sign up and fingers crossed the reality of that won't be a nightmare for them - but hundreds of thousands won't for reasons made clear in the OP. These are the people to be most worried about and to stand up for

Anyone with recent experinece of the home office in regards right to remain will know that even doing everything right can sometimes not be enough.

 

[zahir]

What happens to an EU citizen living here and planning to marry someone from back home? Will their partner have the right to Iive here, or will it depend on their income?

 

[andysays]

not sure if you are picking up on my use of the word hostile - that was referring to official government policy of Hostility

I tried to make it 100% clear in the OP, many will sign up and fingers crossed the reality of that won't be a nightmare for them - but hundreds of thousands won't for reasons made clear in the OP. These are the people to be most worried about and to stand up for

Anyone with recent experinece of the home office in regards right to remain will know that even doing everything right can sometimes not be enough.

I'm not suggesting that my colleagues are necessarily typical - that the fact that they are in secure employment with a public sector employer means they are likely more secure and feeling more secure than if this was not the case.

But I really don't think it's accurate or helpful to suggest (as your OP and the headline of the article you've linked to both do) that the position of all the 3.5 million EU citizens living in the UK is threatened come March 29th next year.

 

[ska invita]

What happens to an EU citizen living here and planning to marry someone from back home? Will their partner have the right to Iive here? Will it depend on income?

my understanding is: Depends from when zahir, said partner needs 5 years on the clock here at this point, so No. But if said EU citizen can eventually get settled status then from then they would have to go through the usual channels for a spouse which means having a big income <<<another bullshit law that needs binning immediately - one rule for the wealthy another for the poorer.