Far-right response to Southport Outrage And Ongoing Violent Disorder

[Spymaster]

I quite like the version with the music from Enter the Dragon.

HIGNFY should be good this week.

 

[two sheds]

the offences will be racially aggravated you'd think which should bump the sentences up a bit.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Violent disorder – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

Interesting to see what violent disorder sentencing is. Not quite the custodial predicted upthread

Why not riot?

Riot – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

 

[cesare]

Why not riot?

Riot – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

Because three so far have been arrested for violent disorder, see andysays post that I quoted.

 

[steeplejack]

Imagine the humiliation that prick is going to suffer for the rest of his life. You'd normally have to pay somebody for that level of humiliation.

Yep the Muslamic ray guns guy being interviewed after a whole six pack of Stella to himself at that London EDL demo years back will be relieved that finally someone looks an even bigger knob on youtube now.



For ever.

 

[agricola]

Why not riot?

Riot – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

usually for insurance purposes

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Because three so far have been arrested for violent disorder, see andysays post that I quoted.

I know, why not nick the cunts for riot? Their actions were against a mosque and then the police. The violent disorder guidelines make no mention of attacking police, riot explicitly does, puts them in the catagory 1 level for doing that.

They can be charged with a different offence to that which they were nicked, would be good to see the charges being riot instead.

Even ACABs can have a day off...

 

[cesare]

I know, why not nick the cunts for riot. Their actions were against a mosque and then the police. The violent disorder guidelines make no mention of attacking police, riot explicitly does, puts them in the catagory 1 level for doing that.

They can be charged with a different offence to that which they were nicked, would be good to see the charges being riot instead.

Even ACABs can have a day off...

Yeah I hope the charges will be upped, but so far it looks as though my cynicism about what they'd end up with was right, wish it wasn't.

 

[Spymaster]

Why not riot?

Riot – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

Apparently, rioting has to involve 12 or more people acting together, whereas VD doesn't.

There seem to be a lot more than 12 people involved there but perhaps the people nicked were in smaller groups.

 

[JimW]

The lord lieutenant has to read out the Act then the yeoman cavalry can charge.

 

[The39thStep]

Danny Tommo released a video yesterday calling for riots but didn't manage to make it to Southport himself. SYL released a video ranting about 'the anger' last night and today has released another video calmly 'appealing for calm'. This lot will wind up the mugs and then retreat as soon as the shit hits the fan.

 

[_Russ_]

They know the Prisons are full, massive backlog of court cases............... fun packed summer ahead for scumbags

 

[Spymaster]

Yeah I hope the charges will be upped, but so far it looks as though my cynicism about what they'd end up with was right, wish it wasn't.

I still think the cynicism is misplaced.

I can't think of many clearer situations where the plod and CPS wouldn't go all-out to absolutely crucify the perps.

They've injured 40 coppers!

 

[Saul Goodman]

Being the operative word....

I wonder what his new moniker will be amongst his fellow knuckle draggers. Brick dick. Brick top....

 

[Wilf]

There are just a lot of scumbags who like violence IMO. Whether its rival football teams or muslims, thick twats like to to herd together like animals and fight at any opportunity. The fact this happened smack bang in the middle of a grieving community demonstrates perfectly the kind of low lives that exist in this country.

I'm happy to go along with calling them scumbags and similar. Hateful and vile, doing the actual street work that farage and his ilk have long been pushing. But describing them as thick or just in it for the violence depoliticises the whole thing and takes it out of the context of how British society and others have developed over several decades. Or, to say it better:

Fox and Barton are a pair of clowns. The fact that they have a platform on social media is because they are reflecting back (not very well or clearly from what I have seen) a set of existing ideas not because they are creating them.

The conditions that provide the oxygen for those ideas - a political vacuum and lack of representation, deteriorating living standards, concerns about immigration, the collapse of social solidarity, a crisis of masculinity etc – have not emerged overnight and are very complex to resolve. The far right and the political reproduction of some of their ideas by the populist right provide an easy, but ultimately hollow, solution.

For those seeking to engage and to build a better set of ideas and politics, who see the need to intervene meaningfully and credibly in the communities where these ideas are taking root and who want our side and not their side to fill the political vacuum the task is to provide ideas and answers to those conditions. There are no short cuts or easy solutions. Social media bans (which won't happen), calling on the state to hand out stiffer jail terms, demonisation etc isn't going to cut it.

I agree with Pickman's model that where we are headed does require the need for thinking about effective tactics to target mobilisations like last night, but AFA was also always clear that its role was essentially defensive, and to create time and space for an alternative set of pro working class politics to fill the vacuum. That was the task then and it remains the task now....

 

[Kaka Tim]

I still think the cynicism is misplaced.

I can't think of many clearer situations where the plod and CPS wouldn't go all-out to absolutely crucify the perps.

They've injured 40 coppers!

yeah - the level of public outrage - not least from the families of the victims - does suggest the book will be very much thrown at them. Others who dont get charged may still lose jobs once interent detectives get to work. E.g. Brick in bollocks bloke and dancing ape boy might have P45s winging their way to them from their employees in the very near futture.

 

[skyscraper101]

I'm happy to go along with calling them scumbags and similar. Hateful and vile, doing the actual street work that farage and his ilk have long been pushing. But describing them as thick or just in it for the violence depoliticises the whole thing and takes it out of the context of how British society and others have developed over several decades.

Sure, but I mean, without wanting to depoliticise what's going on in the UK, there are also a fair amount of just plain thick people who probably couldn't even spell Farage or even know who Laurence Fox is. They just want a ruck because they're twats. This wasn't some organized EDL march, it was a bunch of opportunist thugs.

 

[lengualo]

I'm happy to go along with calling them scumbags and similar. Hateful and vile, doing the actual street work that farage and his ilk have long been pushing. But describing them as thick or just in it for the violence depoliticises the whole thing and takes it out of the context of how British society and others have developed over several decades. Or, to say it better:

I prefer to call these organisations and their followers what they are, fascists. They're the same ilk who used to be in the National Front.

Just because they dont have the logo and silly moustache doesnt change what they are.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I still think the cynicism is misplaced.

I can't think of many clearer situations where the plod and CPS wouldn't go all-out to absolutely crucify the perps.

They've injured 40 coppers!

Also we've just got a shiny new PM who used to be a prosecutor and will be absolutely itching to show how tough on crime he is. He's already put out some sort of statement to that effect I think.

 

[Wilf]

i love how he's posing/prancing in front of the police at the start

You know there are people behind you are throwing bricks?
- yes!
And they are throwing them at the police in front of you?
- yes!
And you are standing quite close to the police, posing?
- yes!
And do you see a problem with this scenario?
no!
Sigh, it's going to be quite some time till we can move on to small and far away...

 

[CNT36]

Strictly may be in touch.

Looks like he has already started training with Giovanni.

 

[Wilf]

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From

Superb. I'm all for confronting the fash and not ceding the streets to them, but this illustrates how a range of tactics are important (even if, I'm guessing, the clean up wasn't organised by actual anti-fascist groups).

 

[The39thStep]

Sure, but I mean, without wanting to depoliticise what's going on in the UK, there are also a fair amount of just plain thick people who probably couldn't even spell Farage or even know who Laurence Fox is. They just want a ruck because they're twats. This wasn't some organized EDL march, it was a bunch of opportunist thugs.

The EDL wound up in 2015

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Sure, but I mean, without wanting to depoliticise what's going on in the UK, there are also a fair amount of just plain thick people who probably couldn't even spell Farage or even know who Laurence Fox is. They just want a ruck because they're twats. This wasn't some organized EDL march, it was a bunch of opportunist thugs.

Aye, some of it is for the same reasons that we've had football violence for decades - just looking for a rival tribe to fight. And throw alcohol & the easy availability of cocaine into the mix.

 

[Saul Goodman]

You know there are people behind you are throwing bricks?
- yes!
And they are throwing them at the police in front of you?
- yes!
And you are standing quite close to the police, posing?
- yes!
And do you see a problem with this scenario?
no!
Sigh, it's going to be quite some time till we can move on to small and far away...

You're assuming an ability to rationalise, which, by his very presence, is a fallacious assumption.
If he had one less brain cell he'd be an amoeba.

 

[Wilf]

Sure, but I mean, without wanting to depoliticise what's going on in the UK, there are also a fair amount of just plain thick people who probably couldn't even spell Farage or even know who Laurence Fox is. They just want a ruck because they're twats. This wasn't some organized EDL march, it was a bunch of opportunist thugs.

I don't mind thick as an occasional term of abuse, but I'm not that keen on dividing human being up by 'intelligence'. Intelligence is a messy concept, problematic in some circumstances, but doesn't really take you to why groups of largely working class men are doing this shit in this moment. A version of toxic masculinity - performative perhaps - is in the mix, but so are decades of political economy and shit faced by working class communities. This doesn't reduce down to being thick twats.

Also, whilst these are our enemies doing hideous things, smashing a mosque in this instance, the use of physical force and even violence may be justified in other circumstances. I and most of what remains of the left' on urban just have a very different view of what those circumstances might be. But that is, certainly, for another thread.

 

[kenny g]

Actually, you are right about Barton - he does not take criticism well, look at how he lashed out at Gabe Sutton.

Southport has dunes. Stockport has...concrete?

Better beer brewed in Stockport.

 

[Wilf]

I quite like the version with the music from Enter the Dragon.

This is likely reviewing the Kennedy assassination footage: that's two shooters bricks then... no wait! There's a third!

 

[skyscraper101]

I don't mind thick as an occasional term of abuse, but I'm not that keen on dividing human being up by 'intelligence'. Intelligence is a messy concept, problematic in some circumstances, but doesn't really take you to why groups of largely working class men are doing this shit in this moment. A version of toxic masculinity - performative perhaps - is in the mix, but so are decades of political economy and shit faced by working class communities. This doesn't reduce down to being thick twats.

Also, whilst these are our enemies doing hideous things, smashing a mosque in this instance, the use of physical force and even violence may be justified in other circumstances. I and most of what remains of the left' on urban just have a very different view of what those circumstances might be. But that is, certainly, for another thread.

I get what you're saying. I'm being very casual of course. I also don’t to get into any kind of 'intelligence' debate. I guess my broader point is that a lot of people just don't have a political agenda. It's the violence they're into, and they'll grab whatever convenient slogans suit their thing - be it “Tommy Robinson” “Lee Rigby”, “Asian Pedo Gangs”, “Millwall”… etc etc - they’re just convenient vehicles to have a fight about.

 

[Miss-Shelf]

I still think the cynicism is misplaced.

I can't think of many clearer situations where the plod and CPS wouldn't go all-out to absolutely crucify the perps.

They've injured 40 coppers!

CPS managed to charge many in Bristol with hefty charges including riot during the Kill the Bill action a few years ago - people have served and are serving a lot of time for that even those that were injured and provoked by police