F1 2017
- Thread starter spitfire
- Start date
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Message from stewards: Just pay attention on a slow-down lap.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Marcin Budkowski effect rumbles on
Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, Williams, McLaren and Force India have all written to the FIA and F1 CEO Chase Carey to prevent Marcin Budkowski from joining Renault.
Budkowski resigned from his role as head of the FIA's F1 technical department with immediate effect last week, but the story escalated when it emerged that Renault have offered him a position with the team.
Budkowski is currently on gardening leave for three months, but that would allow him to join Renault in January and take knowledge of all the teams' plans for next season with him to the Enstone-based team.
Toto Wolff, Christian Horner, Maurizio Arrivabene, Eric Boullier, Paddy Lowe and Bob Fernley (note no-one from Renault was there) held an impromptu meeting in Malaysia over the weekend to discuss this controversial move and have since taken their concerns to the next level by officially alerting those above in the chain of command.
I'm not really sure what the teams can do about it, I don't believe they can go to law, EU law would I'm sure comedown on the side of Marcin Budkowski as he is following the FIA rules on such matters and he has the right to work under EU law. His specialty is in the Aero department, something Renault needs urgently to work on, he will also have lots of information on the new rules around the engine package that teams may not be privy to yet. I fully understand the teams concerns and Red Bull in particular, as their "Renault" power-unit is far better than anything Renault has shown so far.
I'm sure something will be sorted out but I think we will hear a lot more o this over the coming months.
Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, Williams, McLaren and Force India have all written to the FIA and F1 CEO Chase Carey to prevent Marcin Budkowski from joining Renault.
Budkowski resigned from his role as head of the FIA's F1 technical department with immediate effect last week, but the story escalated when it emerged that Renault have offered him a position with the team.
Budkowski is currently on gardening leave for three months, but that would allow him to join Renault in January and take knowledge of all the teams' plans for next season with him to the Enstone-based team.
Toto Wolff, Christian Horner, Maurizio Arrivabene, Eric Boullier, Paddy Lowe and Bob Fernley (note no-one from Renault was there) held an impromptu meeting in Malaysia over the weekend to discuss this controversial move and have since taken their concerns to the next level by officially alerting those above in the chain of command.
I'm not really sure what the teams can do about it, I don't believe they can go to law, EU law would I'm sure comedown on the side of Marcin Budkowski as he is following the FIA rules on such matters and he has the right to work under EU law. His specialty is in the Aero department, something Renault needs urgently to work on, he will also have lots of information on the new rules around the engine package that teams may not be privy to yet. I fully understand the teams concerns and Red Bull in particular, as their "Renault" power-unit is far better than anything Renault has shown so far.
I'm sure something will be sorted out but I think we will hear a lot more o this over the coming months.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough, I was just checking.Suzuka this weekend
Only on Sky I think?
Anyone know the UK times?
It's the least comfortable race for UK viewers.
UK times (still British Summer Time):
Fri 6 Oct
FP1 - 02.00
FP2 - 06.00
Sat 7 Oct
FP3 - 04.00
Qual - 07.00
Sun 8 Oct
Race - 06.00
Edit: Sky only. The remaining Channel 4 covered races will be USA (22 Oct) and Abu Dhabi (26 Nov).
Double edit: It doesn't look any more convenient for Brazil-based viewers either.
Last edited:
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Six in the morning is normally dead easy for me. But if I watch the 2 am and 4 am practice sessions on Friday and Saturday, I'll be a space cadet by Sunday.Ooof 6am on a Sunday morningwill still manage that I am sure
If only science had invented some mechanism which would enable me to store the television pictures in some sort of box, which I could manipulate to show me the pictures later, at a time more in keeping with my circadian rhythms.
Of course, science would then have to figure out a way of showing me how to operate such a majicke box, so that I didn't just end up with many hours of Would I Lie To You on Dave +17 which is what usually fucking happens.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Do you have a way to watch it live? If not let me know and I'll send you a couple of linksOoof 6am on a Sunday morning
Race time is a little better, as we can go out later to eat and drink and watch the warm-up show from 1am our time, bed about 5am after Ted's note book and up again for the bar around mid-day Sunday
Six in the morning is normally dead easy for me. But if I watch the 2 am and 4 am practice sessions on Friday and Saturday, I'll be a space cadet by Sunday.
If only science had invented some mechanism which would enable me to store the television pictures in some sort of box, which I could manipulate to show me the pictures later, at a time more in keeping with my circadian rhythms.
Of course, science would then have to figure out a way of showing me how to operate such a majicke box, so that I didn't just end up with many hours of Would I Lie To You on Dave +17 which is what usually fucking happens.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Nico Rosberg returning to F1
Not as a driver but as a pundit for Sky Formula 1, yes the reigning world champion will be joining Martin Brundle, Damon Hill, Johnny Herbert, Anthony Davidson, Ted Kravitz and Crofty. Rosberg has never really been my cup of tea as he seems to moan and complain a lot, I hope now he is out of the sport he can change my mind and be more positive. He has a lot of experience at Suzuka, so I hope his insight is as good as Pat Symonds.
Mercedes finances
Up the thread I posted some stuff about Red Bulls Finances and for those who like that sort of detail, he is what Mercedes accounts had to show.
The Mercedes team generated a turnover of £289 million in 2016. While they don't include the costs of the HPP powertrain division in Brixworth, the numbers suggest that F1 is a bargain for Mercedes in terms of the exposure the marque receives, certainly compared to the figures spent by rivals Porsche and Audi in WEC in recent years. The Brackley team's 2016 accounts show that turnover rose from £213.2m the previous year, to £289.4m last year. That figure includes sponsorship, income from F1's commercial rights holder, and what the team calls "marketing revenue" - the payments that it receives from Daimler AG.
Costs increased by £27.9m in 2016, due to the extra R&D investment required as the team prepared for the huge changes to the 2017 regulations, and to currency exchange rate losses. There was also a £15.9m tax charge, as opposed to a £13.3m tax credit in 2015, which resulted from "a reassessment of consortium tax relief claims in prior years". The team made an operating profit of £14.3m - compared to a loss of £33.9m in 2015. However, after that tax payment was taken into account, along with interest charges, the final figure was a loss of £3.7m - very different from the post tax credit £22.2m overall loss of the previous year.
Although not specified in the official accounts, the most intriguing aspect is just how modest a sum Daimler AG has to put into the team, given how it has so successfully generated both prize money and sponsorship.Their costs towards the team was less than £30 million, so less than 10%. The key is the constructors' championship bonus (CCB) money and the special payment made to Mercedes following the double 2014 and 2015 title successes, and which kicked in as extra income during the 2016 season. It stems from the deal that Mercedes struck with Bernie Ecclestone shortly before the start of the V6 turbo era, at a time when the top teams were negotiating for extra income in return for making a long-term commitment to F1.
How the engine program fits in. As noted above these numbers do not include the cost of running the HPP engine facility in Brixworth, which had a turnover of £140m in 2016. Some of that is income from F1 customers Williams, Force India and until last season Manor, but the bulk of it represents payments from Daimler AG. It is regarded as R&D expenditure, rather than being allocated to a marketing budget like the race team payments, and its costs represent just a small fraction of what a company like Mercedes spends on R&D overall. And thanks to the Project One hypercar, there is now a genuine link to production technology to help justify the F1 spending.
Not as a driver but as a pundit for Sky Formula 1, yes the reigning world champion will be joining Martin Brundle, Damon Hill, Johnny Herbert, Anthony Davidson, Ted Kravitz and Crofty. Rosberg has never really been my cup of tea as he seems to moan and complain a lot, I hope now he is out of the sport he can change my mind and be more positive. He has a lot of experience at Suzuka, so I hope his insight is as good as Pat Symonds.
Mercedes finances
Up the thread I posted some stuff about Red Bulls Finances and for those who like that sort of detail, he is what Mercedes accounts had to show.
The Mercedes team generated a turnover of £289 million in 2016. While they don't include the costs of the HPP powertrain division in Brixworth, the numbers suggest that F1 is a bargain for Mercedes in terms of the exposure the marque receives, certainly compared to the figures spent by rivals Porsche and Audi in WEC in recent years. The Brackley team's 2016 accounts show that turnover rose from £213.2m the previous year, to £289.4m last year. That figure includes sponsorship, income from F1's commercial rights holder, and what the team calls "marketing revenue" - the payments that it receives from Daimler AG.
Costs increased by £27.9m in 2016, due to the extra R&D investment required as the team prepared for the huge changes to the 2017 regulations, and to currency exchange rate losses. There was also a £15.9m tax charge, as opposed to a £13.3m tax credit in 2015, which resulted from "a reassessment of consortium tax relief claims in prior years". The team made an operating profit of £14.3m - compared to a loss of £33.9m in 2015. However, after that tax payment was taken into account, along with interest charges, the final figure was a loss of £3.7m - very different from the post tax credit £22.2m overall loss of the previous year.
Although not specified in the official accounts, the most intriguing aspect is just how modest a sum Daimler AG has to put into the team, given how it has so successfully generated both prize money and sponsorship.Their costs towards the team was less than £30 million, so less than 10%. The key is the constructors' championship bonus (CCB) money and the special payment made to Mercedes following the double 2014 and 2015 title successes, and which kicked in as extra income during the 2016 season. It stems from the deal that Mercedes struck with Bernie Ecclestone shortly before the start of the V6 turbo era, at a time when the top teams were negotiating for extra income in return for making a long-term commitment to F1.
How the engine program fits in. As noted above these numbers do not include the cost of running the HPP engine facility in Brixworth, which had a turnover of £140m in 2016. Some of that is income from F1 customers Williams, Force India and until last season Manor, but the bulk of it represents payments from Daimler AG. It is regarded as R&D expenditure, rather than being allocated to a marketing budget like the race team payments, and its costs represent just a small fraction of what a company like Mercedes spends on R&D overall. And thanks to the Project One hypercar, there is now a genuine link to production technology to help justify the F1 spending.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Interesting question, I was looking something up a couple of days ago in Shunt [The story of James Hunt] where I remember reading that Murry Walker and James Hunt used to commentate on what are now called "the fly away races" from the BBC studio while watching those races on what is described as a large TV screen. The question you ask above is what sprang to my mind, why do Sky need to fly so many pundits around the world nowadays. Things were so much easier back in the day.
I have to say the analyses today is far better and I think Sky have really up their game with the inclusion of Pat Symonds, Damon Hill, Martin Brundle etc. I tend to watch the race on the TV, so have the Brazilian coverage [which I can hear in one ear] but listen to the sky commentary via the laptop and I have to admit the Sky coverage is far superior in both detail and insight.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
I agree.
I've been following F1 since Jack Brabham was wearing Castrol-sponsored nappies, and the amount of quality people and technology (read: money) Sky throw at F1 makes for a very satisfying experience for me.
I particularly like the technical focus (Symonds, Kravitz), driving analysis (Davidson, Di Resta) and racing experience (Hill, Herbert, Brundle) they can present. The race commentary (Croft, Brundle) is the best I can remember, including the iconic but oft-shambolic, oft-bickering Walker - Hunt combo.
Of course I end up paying Rupert a small fortune for all the Sky Sports channels, but I get my money's worth. Last year I watched one of the GPs live on Sky Go on my phone in a sensationally rough pub in North Shields. The locals thought it was Black Majicke and made signs of the cross when my brother went to the bar. Priceless.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Yes just Japan, he isn't working just for Sky UK, he will also be working for Sky Italy and Sky Germany.
Romain Grosjean and that drain cover
The cost put on this "little incident" by Haas racing team is $750,000, not really small change even in F1 terms. Haas are pissed off and want someone to pay for the considerable damage to their car and also something that should never happen, although this is not the only such incident in F1.
It happened twice in 2016, the first time effected Jenson Buttons at Monaco during FP1 when a drain cover smashed his front wing and the second time last season was at Buka when a metal grate came loose damaging Bottas's Williams, but the bolts holding down that grate had already caused a couple of punctures. Again in Monaco back in 2010 a drain cover became loose causing Rubens Barrichello to crash, at first it was thought his accident was just caused by a puncture, but later in the race the safety-car was sent out to repair that same drain cover. Who can forget that McLaren lost the 2005 Constructors championship after Montoya hit a loose drain cover at the last race in Shanghai, while he was able to keep running for a short while the drain had damaged the floor and a radiator and he had to retire, this allowed Alonso not only to win the drivers championship but Renault to win the Constructors.
So who is responsible to ensure that such incidents don't happen? While teams can not claim against each other for damaged caused to their cars by other teams, this damage was caused because someone didn't do their job properly. Is it the circuits fault? Is it the FIA's fault? After all they inspect the track and clear it for racing. Or is it the national sporting authority fault? Under the FIA rules national sporting authorities have a duty to make regular inspections of all facilities, as proper maintenance is a condition of the circuit’s license.
Drains are specifically mentioned with-in the FIA rules, they say “drains should be cleaned, and inspected by the national sporting authority for correct operation prior to major competitions”. But looking at the wording does that relate to the grilles/covers or just to the drainage?
Someone will have to pay as Haas say they are not willing to cover the cost as the cause of the incident was out of their control, I have a feeling this could run on for a while and the FIA are going to have to change their rules to cover any such incident in the future. But considering the number of times this has happened now someone needs to get a grip on the situation before a driver is seriously injured or killed. No win no fee anyone
Interesting TV news for F1 in the USA
Formula 1 (that's the Liberty Media group) has announced a multi-year analogue and digital partnership with ESPN, the US cable and satellite sports broadcaster, which is itself owned by the Walt Disney Company. Why have Liberty Media sold their flagship sporting event to their biggest rival? I can't for the life of me understand why they have done this unless "digital" doesn't cover internet coverage and Liberty Media are planing to do something themselves via an internet platform selling race coverage via the internet at some point in the near future.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Sainz has a big off and red flags the session.
He dipped a rear a few inches onto the astroturf, bounced off a barrier and deposited a three-wheel car in the middle of the track on a carpet of carbon-fibre.
In the garage, one of the team was filmed reviewing the playback, realising it was driver error, and making the most obvious
to his colleagues.
He dipped a rear a few inches onto the astroturf, bounced off a barrier and deposited a three-wheel car in the middle of the track on a carpet of carbon-fibre.
In the garage, one of the team was filmed reviewing the playback, realising it was driver error, and making the most obvious
to his colleagues.
