F1 2017
- Thread starter spitfire
- Start date
1%er
Well-Known Member
Daniil Kvyat sidelined by Toro Rossos
Toro Rosso will drop Kvyat for the Malaysian GP and replace him with the young Frenchman Pierre Gasly, who is likely to race for the team next season. Team boss Franz Tost said "The driver switch gives us an opportunity to make a more informed decision regarding our 2018 driver choices". Personally I think they will keep him for the next race in Japan as well (or if he does well maybe the rest of the season), as Gasly is currently racing in Japan's Super Formula championship and second the series just 1/2 a point behind the leader, if he is available and not racing elsewhere.
It's clear that Carlos Sainz is leaving the team and moving to Renault next season and I thought Gasly was going to replace him, but will they also replace Kvyat? I can't remember reading about another young Red Bull driver who is ready to move up to F1 and I don't think they have anyone else in their stable who has a superlicence. I also can't think of any young Japanese Honda backed driver who has a superlicence, so I think they are likely to keep Kvyat for 2018.
Aston Martin to become Red Bull title sponsor from 2018
The team’s official name will be Aston Martin Red Bull Racing. Andy Palmer Aston Martin’s president and CEO has said “The power unit discussions in Formula One are of interest to us, but only if the circumstances are right. We are not about to enter an engine war with no restrictions in cost or dynamometer hours but we believe that if the FIA can create the right environment we would be interested in getting involved”.
I have some thought about how Red Bull will be sold and when I get time I'll post them here as I believe the team will not be owned by Dietrich Mateschitz after 2020, but a great deal depends on the new engine rules.
Malaysia GP
One of the worse on the calendar for me with a start time of 4am
, but it is the last year for this race so I hope they replace it with something that starts later. Races that start around 2am are better as we tend to go out late and come back for the race but that isn't really an option for a 4am start. Qualifying at 6am just means I'll talk the dog out a little earlier and watch the sunrise over the sea 
Toro Rosso will drop Kvyat for the Malaysian GP and replace him with the young Frenchman Pierre Gasly, who is likely to race for the team next season. Team boss Franz Tost said "The driver switch gives us an opportunity to make a more informed decision regarding our 2018 driver choices". Personally I think they will keep him for the next race in Japan as well (or if he does well maybe the rest of the season), as Gasly is currently racing in Japan's Super Formula championship and second the series just 1/2 a point behind the leader, if he is available and not racing elsewhere.
It's clear that Carlos Sainz is leaving the team and moving to Renault next season and I thought Gasly was going to replace him, but will they also replace Kvyat? I can't remember reading about another young Red Bull driver who is ready to move up to F1 and I don't think they have anyone else in their stable who has a superlicence. I also can't think of any young Japanese Honda backed driver who has a superlicence, so I think they are likely to keep Kvyat for 2018.
Aston Martin to become Red Bull title sponsor from 2018
The team’s official name will be Aston Martin Red Bull Racing. Andy Palmer Aston Martin’s president and CEO has said “The power unit discussions in Formula One are of interest to us, but only if the circumstances are right. We are not about to enter an engine war with no restrictions in cost or dynamometer hours but we believe that if the FIA can create the right environment we would be interested in getting involved”.
I have some thought about how Red Bull will be sold and when I get time I'll post them here as I believe the team will not be owned by Dietrich Mateschitz after 2020, but a great deal depends on the new engine rules.
Malaysia GP
One of the worse on the calendar for me with a start time of 4am
, but it is the last year for this race so I hope they replace it with something that starts later. Races that start around 2am are better as we tend to go out late and come back for the race but that isn't really an option for a 4am start. Qualifying at 6am just means I'll talk the dog out a little earlier and watch the sunrise over the sea 
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Or has a line of clothing coming out more likely
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
1%er
Well-Known Member
Red Bull Formula 1 team post 2020
I've been chatting with friends about what could happen to Red Bull post 2020 after the new Concorde agreement is in place, clearly lots of this is speculation, but I think informed speculation and supported by many articles published in the press.
It has been reported for many months that Dietrich Mateschitz is looking to sell his interests in Formula 1, these are primarily the two teams he owns, Red Bull and Toro Rosso, Red Bull Technology Group the racing teams direct parent company and the Red Bull Ring in Spielberg Austria, but I haven't heard/read anything that has claimed that the Red Bull Ring is up for sale. I'm really just looking at the Red Bull F1 team here.
Forbes values the team Red Bull Racing team at $400 million and is a subsidiary of Red Bull GmbH the parent company of the Red Bull Group (there are a number of companies below Red Bull GmbH which are involved in Formula 1 such as the Red Bull Technology Group and Toro Rosso), the racing team (Red Bull Racing) only directly employs 58 staff. Design, production and engineering is carried out by immediate parent company Red Bull Technology Group who also support Toro Rosso. Red Bull Technology Group employs around 700 people.
I think that Red Bull Racing could well be sold to Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Aston Martin plus other outside investors. Clearly, Horner, Newey and Aston Martin don't have $400 million, but Aston Martin has stated that it will become the teams Title Sponsor from next season and have also indicated that it will become an engine supplier, if the new FOM rules are favorable. So how could they fund a buyout to take control of the racing team?
Red Bulls turnover according to their recently published accounts was £197million in 2016 but after taxes and expenses it registered a profit of just £385,000. It earned a combined £197,949,000 from outside sponsorship, prize money and bonuses from the F1 organization, as well as payments from its ultimate parent company (Red Bull GmbH). The important figure here is the payments from Red Bull GmbH, were these payments loans (i.e. debt)?
Red Bull GmbH provided £40.6million to Red Bull Racing last year, compared to a £10.1m payment during the previous season, if this extra money was in loans, it could be being used to reduce the cash value of the racing team, as it would be debt. Is Dietrich Mateschitz going to lend the team more money over the next couple of years to bring the cash value of the team down to allow other to buy the company and its debt that he as the lender would be paid back over time or taking now in dividends.
This would mean that anyone buying the team could buy it at an affordable cash value and carry the debt on the books of the new company, making it easier for Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Aston Martin to finance a management buyout? While Dietrich Mateschitz's parent company Red Bull GmbH want to unload the racing teams, it is likely to continue sponsorship of the Red Bull team as it is excellent advertising for his worldwide brand of drinks company's. Any such sponsorship would also allow the new buyers to have a guaranteed income for a number of years.
So how could Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Aston Martin finance a management buyout? There are a number of ways for them to do this, they could sell some of the equity in the new team to private equity firms, banks or sell shares in the new team. Dietrich Mateschitz could enter into a seller financing agreement whereby the new team would pay for the company over a number of years, or, going back to Debt mentioned above, where Red Bull GmbH runs up the debt in the racing team and taking that debt value as dividends and include the debt in the sale of the racing team, or all of the above combined.
Both Lotus and McLaren used similar ways to take over Formula 1 teams in the past, to a greater or lesser degree and success. Lotus (or more accurately Genii Capital) never really had the money to by the team from Renault in the first place and were overstretched from day one and couldn't arrange the finance they needed to keep the team going. Ron Dennis and McLaren on the other-hand did it right and I believe that is the model that Horner, Newey and Aston Martin will follow. Aston Martin has turned itself around and the Valkyrie model, designed by Adrian Newey, has been a massive success and more such collaboration are likely to follow.
So in summary, I believe Red Bull racing will continue after the new Concorde agreement and be own by Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Aston Martin.
Got a flight to catch or I'd have explained in more detail and added a couple of links
I've been chatting with friends about what could happen to Red Bull post 2020 after the new Concorde agreement is in place, clearly lots of this is speculation, but I think informed speculation and supported by many articles published in the press.
It has been reported for many months that Dietrich Mateschitz is looking to sell his interests in Formula 1, these are primarily the two teams he owns, Red Bull and Toro Rosso, Red Bull Technology Group the racing teams direct parent company and the Red Bull Ring in Spielberg Austria, but I haven't heard/read anything that has claimed that the Red Bull Ring is up for sale. I'm really just looking at the Red Bull F1 team here.
Forbes values the team Red Bull Racing team at $400 million and is a subsidiary of Red Bull GmbH the parent company of the Red Bull Group (there are a number of companies below Red Bull GmbH which are involved in Formula 1 such as the Red Bull Technology Group and Toro Rosso), the racing team (Red Bull Racing) only directly employs 58 staff. Design, production and engineering is carried out by immediate parent company Red Bull Technology Group who also support Toro Rosso. Red Bull Technology Group employs around 700 people.
I think that Red Bull Racing could well be sold to Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Aston Martin plus other outside investors. Clearly, Horner, Newey and Aston Martin don't have $400 million, but Aston Martin has stated that it will become the teams Title Sponsor from next season and have also indicated that it will become an engine supplier, if the new FOM rules are favorable. So how could they fund a buyout to take control of the racing team?
Red Bulls turnover according to their recently published accounts was £197million in 2016 but after taxes and expenses it registered a profit of just £385,000. It earned a combined £197,949,000 from outside sponsorship, prize money and bonuses from the F1 organization, as well as payments from its ultimate parent company (Red Bull GmbH). The important figure here is the payments from Red Bull GmbH, were these payments loans (i.e. debt)?
Red Bull GmbH provided £40.6million to Red Bull Racing last year, compared to a £10.1m payment during the previous season, if this extra money was in loans, it could be being used to reduce the cash value of the racing team, as it would be debt. Is Dietrich Mateschitz going to lend the team more money over the next couple of years to bring the cash value of the team down to allow other to buy the company and its debt that he as the lender would be paid back over time or taking now in dividends.
This would mean that anyone buying the team could buy it at an affordable cash value and carry the debt on the books of the new company, making it easier for Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Aston Martin to finance a management buyout? While Dietrich Mateschitz's parent company Red Bull GmbH want to unload the racing teams, it is likely to continue sponsorship of the Red Bull team as it is excellent advertising for his worldwide brand of drinks company's. Any such sponsorship would also allow the new buyers to have a guaranteed income for a number of years.
So how could Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Aston Martin finance a management buyout? There are a number of ways for them to do this, they could sell some of the equity in the new team to private equity firms, banks or sell shares in the new team. Dietrich Mateschitz could enter into a seller financing agreement whereby the new team would pay for the company over a number of years, or, going back to Debt mentioned above, where Red Bull GmbH runs up the debt in the racing team and taking that debt value as dividends and include the debt in the sale of the racing team, or all of the above combined.
Both Lotus and McLaren used similar ways to take over Formula 1 teams in the past, to a greater or lesser degree and success. Lotus (or more accurately Genii Capital) never really had the money to by the team from Renault in the first place and were overstretched from day one and couldn't arrange the finance they needed to keep the team going. Ron Dennis and McLaren on the other-hand did it right and I believe that is the model that Horner, Newey and Aston Martin will follow. Aston Martin has turned itself around and the Valkyrie model, designed by Adrian Newey, has been a massive success and more such collaboration are likely to follow.
So in summary, I believe Red Bull racing will continue after the new Concorde agreement and be own by Christian Horner, Adrian Newey and Aston Martin.
Got a flight to catch or I'd have explained in more detail and added a couple of links
1%er
Well-Known Member
Trouble at mill
A number of teams are up in arms about Marcin Budkowski, who the fuck is Marcin Budkowski I hear some of you ask
Well, Marcin Budkowski, was the head of the FIA’s Formula One Technical Department, and as such, he has extensive knowledge of current and future car designs.He has been placed on 3 months "gardening leave" by the FIA because he has resigned his position and many teams believe he is going to join one of their rivals (rumor has it, he will join Renault). Being placed on only 3 months leave will allow him to join an F1 team before the start of the 2018 season and take with him the knowledge he has about other car designs and innovations.
Christian Horner has been very vocal about this situation, saying "We take major issue that if he does end up in another team. Obviously in these individuals you place an enormous amount of trust. In the role that Marcin has been responsible for he’s been in an extremely privileged position where extremely recently he’s been in people’s wind tunnels, been looking at intimate details of knowledge of next year’s cars. I think three months notice period for him then to turn up in a competitor team in Formula One is entirely inappropriate. I certainly hope that isn’t the case. I’m sure it will get discussed quite seriously in the Strategy Group meeting. It’s an important role and it’s vital the teams have trust and faith in the governing body that they can share and discuss their technical know-how, their technical secrets in many respects, which costs millions and millions of pounds, in confidence that that information doesn’t have the ability to end up in a rival team”.
Force India’s chief operating officer Otmar Szafnauer agreed with Horner, claining “It would have been nice to know the notice period, three months I don’t think is long enough. Had we known it was three months earlier perhaps we would have hired him, but three months is nowhere near long enough. It has to be long enough that the technology he’s aware of becomes, not obsolete, but not leading-edge".
Both Szafnauer and Horner claim that the industry standard period is 12 to 18 months. I believe that F1 teams are bared from selling currant F1 cars by the sporting regulations, the reason for this is to prevent currant technology from leading teams being brought up by smaller teams at much less than the development cost, the FIA rules say a can must be at least 12 months old before a team can put it on the market, so it seems perverse to me, that an FIA employee with knowledge of teams future car can be allowed to join an F1 team while that knowledge is still currant.
I'm sure we will hear a lot more about this over the weekend as team bosses are extremely pissed off at the prospect.
A number of teams are up in arms about Marcin Budkowski, who the fuck is Marcin Budkowski I hear some of you ask
Well, Marcin Budkowski, was the head of the FIA’s Formula One Technical Department, and as such, he has extensive knowledge of current and future car designs.He has been placed on 3 months "gardening leave" by the FIA because he has resigned his position and many teams believe he is going to join one of their rivals (rumor has it, he will join Renault). Being placed on only 3 months leave will allow him to join an F1 team before the start of the 2018 season and take with him the knowledge he has about other car designs and innovations.
Christian Horner has been very vocal about this situation, saying "We take major issue that if he does end up in another team. Obviously in these individuals you place an enormous amount of trust. In the role that Marcin has been responsible for he’s been in an extremely privileged position where extremely recently he’s been in people’s wind tunnels, been looking at intimate details of knowledge of next year’s cars. I think three months notice period for him then to turn up in a competitor team in Formula One is entirely inappropriate. I certainly hope that isn’t the case. I’m sure it will get discussed quite seriously in the Strategy Group meeting. It’s an important role and it’s vital the teams have trust and faith in the governing body that they can share and discuss their technical know-how, their technical secrets in many respects, which costs millions and millions of pounds, in confidence that that information doesn’t have the ability to end up in a rival team”.
Force India’s chief operating officer Otmar Szafnauer agreed with Horner, claining “It would have been nice to know the notice period, three months I don’t think is long enough. Had we known it was three months earlier perhaps we would have hired him, but three months is nowhere near long enough. It has to be long enough that the technology he’s aware of becomes, not obsolete, but not leading-edge".
Both Szafnauer and Horner claim that the industry standard period is 12 to 18 months. I believe that F1 teams are bared from selling currant F1 cars by the sporting regulations, the reason for this is to prevent currant technology from leading teams being brought up by smaller teams at much less than the development cost, the FIA rules say a can must be at least 12 months old before a team can put it on the market, so it seems perverse to me, that an FIA employee with knowledge of teams future car can be allowed to join an F1 team while that knowledge is still currant.
I'm sure we will hear a lot more about this over the weekend as team bosses are extremely pissed off at the prospect.
'Gasly' sounds like some kind of F1 interactive smartphone app
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Guantlet thrown down. If Vettel is to be a worthy champion this year, he will have to cream his way through the field and rescue as many points as possible.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Yep, a new, more powerful Magic Tree car freshener will add speed to his heels.They'll be sending someone down to Halfords to stock up with parts, he's starting from the back so extra parts will not give him a bigger penalty and can be used later in the season
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
E
When you're hanged for a sheep as for a lamb, you might as well.
I'd replace every limited component I could get away with.
Exactly.
When you're hanged for a sheep as for a lamb, you might as well.
I'd replace every limited component I could get away with.
