F1 2021

[Ax^]

the again Hamilion started off his career against alonso

and the best team mate Max has had is Danny ric

with a car designed by the best car disigner in F1 history that set up to flatter max and no one else in the team


what danny ric doing getting his arse handed to him by Lando
and alonso is still wriggin the next out of inferior cars

 

[Sasaferrato]

This I agree with. You could easily argue that if Hamilton was such an amazing driver Russell must be at least as good given how well he performed in that same car. Or that the car is exceptional and flatters the driver. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think this way.

Absolutely. I think that this is the core of Mercedes hubris. 'How can anyone dare to build a better car?'.

Next season will be interesting I think, the Hamilton processionals of previous years didn't exactly make for exciting racing.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

This I agree with. You could easily argue that if Hamilton was such an amazing driver Russell must be at least as good given how well he performed in that same car. Or that the car is exceptional and flatters the driver. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think this way.

The best drivers end up in the best cars. That's how F1 works and always has.

Looking back through the years I reckon you have to go back to 1982 to find a champion that wasn't in a clearly dominant car. Keke Rosberg only won one race in his championship year, iirc something like 9 drivers got a win that season.

Even the "classic" greats like Fangio and Ascari were utterly dominant in a large part because they had the best car underneath them.

 

[Ax^]

also anyone who know f1 at all know that the FIA set in this year with a raft of rule changes to ensure Merc did not walk away with it again

The 2021 F1 rules and regulation changes you need to know about: Aero tweaks, new tyres and the budget cap | Formula 1®

There’s a temptation to think that not too much will be changing rule-wise for the 2021 season, given that the 2020 chassis are set be carried over into this year, ahead of the arrival of the delayed 2022 regulations. But scratch the surface, and you’ll find some small, but significant add-ons...

www.formula1.com

 

[Sasaferrato]

You don't really understand F1, do you?

Been watching it since the days of Jim Clark.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Been watching it since the days of Jim Clark.

So why come out with bollocks like "he's just in the best car"? Clark is a fine example of a driver who won in an utterly dominant car. Doesn't diminish his talent* one jot.





*He was the greatest driver of all time btw

 

[dessiato]

The best drivers end up in the best cars. That's how F1 works and always has.

Looking back through the years I reckon you have to go back to 1982 to find a champion that wasn't in a clearly dominant car. Keke Rosberg only won one race in his championship year, iirc something like 9 drivers got a win that season.

Even the "classic" greats like Fangio and Ascari were utterly dominant in a large part because they had the best car underneath them.

Your first paragraph implies that Russell must be one of those best drivers given how well he drove Hamilton’s car. It will be interesting to see how he does next season.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Your first paragraph implies that Russell must be one of those best drivers given how well he drove Hamilton’s car. It will be interesting to see how he does next season.

It will.

Sour end to the season though.

 

[Sasaferrato]

So why come out with bollocks like "he's just in the best car"? Clark is a fine example of a driver who won in an utterly dominant car. Doesn't diminish his talent* one jot.





*He was the greatest driver of all time btw

They certainly had balls in those days. Little in the way of protection.

 

[Ax^]

Your first paragraph implies that Russell must be one of those best drivers given how well he drove Hamilton’s car. It will be interesting to see how he does next season.

do you mean Russell the former formula 4 champion, GP3 Champion and formula 2 champion

why the fuck do you think he is part of the merc driver programme

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

do you mean Russell the former formula 4 champion, GP3 Champion and formula 2 champion

why the fuck do you think he is part of the merc driver programme

Exactly. We know he's good. Mercedes know he's good. That's why he's where he is. That's how it works.

 

[Sasaferrato]

do you mean Russell the former formula 4 champion, GP3 Champion and formula 2 champion

why the fuck do you think he is part of the merc driver programme

The son of a friend drove against, and beat Lewis Hamilton back in his karting days, went on to become Scottish junior karting champion.

Strange thing life, Lewis stayed on the rails, made his way up through racing, and ended up as multiple world champion.

Graeme went completely off the rails, ended up up dying of a heroin overdose in the toilets of MacDonalds in Inverness at the age of 22.

Two lads, two huge talents, very different outcomes.

Tragic drugs death of F1 champ Lewis Hamilton's former childhood rival

A YOUNG Scots racer who was Lewis Hamilton's rival has been found dead of a suspected drugs overdose in a fast food restaurant's toilet.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

 

[Athos]

I was raised to believe that the referees decision is final. You may not agree, but it is final.

You can argue for ever about what might have been, or even what should have been, but once it is over that is that.

If there has been a 'marshalling' cock up, then this will be investigated, and rule changes, if necessary, will be made, but for this season, it is over.

You didn't answer the question. Why do you think the rules weren't followed, if not to manipulate things to ensure a racing finish?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Fuck you you fucking snot goblin.

Superb counter argument!

This I agree with. You could easily argue that if Hamilton was such an amazing driver Russell must be at least as good given how well he performed in that same car. Or that the car is exceptional and flatters the driver. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think this way.

Tbf, while Russell does appear to be an excellent talent, one good race doesn't mean he, or anyone, could replicate what Hamilton has done over an extended period of time.

Also, by that rationale, why is Bottas not performing equally as dominantly?

 

[dessiato]

do you mean Russell the former formula 4 champion, GP3 Champion and formula 2 champion

why the fuck do you think he is part of the merc driver programme

That’s part of my point though. Every F1 driver is good, but without the right car they’re, relatively, also ran. Look what Russell was doing until he was put in Hamilton’s car. Then he became “better” than he had been previously in F1. This strongly implies that it doesn’t matter that you are a good driver until you get the right car. Hamilton has had this for the last seven seasons. This year he came up against someone who is a good driver, in a good car.

 

[dessiato]

…

Also, by that rationale, why is Bottas not performing equally as dominantly?

That is the question, isn’t it? He should have done better than he has.

 

[Petcha]

No I think they manipulated it to ensure that it finished as a race, rather than under the safety car, as they think that makes a better product. Can you provide a better explanation for such a blatant breach of the rules?

The problem as far as I understand from all the handwringing all over the media today from all sorts of 'experts', is that no rules were broken because there is one overarrching bonkers rule which is that the Race Director can use his discretion to override all the other rules. Which he apparently did and he was apparently fully within his rights to.

 

[Lord Camomile]

That’s part of my point though. Every F1 driver is good, but without the right car they’re, relatively, also ran. Look what Russell was doing until he was put in Hamilton’s car. Then he became “better” than he had been previously in F1. This strongly implies that it doesn’t matter that you are a good driver until you get the right car. Hamilton has had this for the last seven seasons. This year he came up against someone who is a good driver, in a good car.

I don't think many people thought Russell suddenly became "better", or would argue that what car you're in doesn't make a difference. It very, very clearly does.

The issue is simply in suggesting as fact that Hamilton's success comes only (or predominantly) from the car.

Not least because he had a championship in a different car under his belt already, and was within points of the title in, I think, pretty much every season before his move to Mercedes.

 

[Athos]

The problem as far as I understand from all the handwringing all over the media today from all sorts of 'experts', is that no rules were broken because there is one overarrching bonkers rule which is that the Race Director can use his discretion to override all the other rules. Which he apparently did and he was apparently fully within his rights to.

Is that true, though? Specifically, which rule provides for that level of discretion?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Actually, might have overcooked that a little bit. Just feel like I remember someone pointing out how close he'd been in other seasons at McLaren.

 

[Petcha]

Is that true, though? Specifically, which rule provides for that level of discretion?

Well I spent the best part of the afternoon today with 5Live on in the background with various armchair experts shouting about this but that one kept coming up, I've no idea.

I should say I'm very much a fairweather F1 fan, exactly the sort they wanted to attract by putting it on C4 and I enjoyed that last lap. But it's 100% clear to me that Hamilton was robbed and if I did actually give more of a shit about Hamilton winning I'd be pretty pissed off. Great TV though. And I'm sure everyone involved walked away with a healthy paypacket so they should stop whinging!

 

[Lord Camomile]

Is that true, though? Specifically, which rule provides for that level of discretion?

I'm pretty sure the exact rule has been cited/shared somewhere, possibly including on this thread.

Will try to track it down once I'm in front of my laptop.

 

[Petcha]

Also - and as I say, this isnt my sport - but isnt it a but weird the team bosses have a direct line to what is effectively the referee? Imagine if Fergie had had an earpiece in the ref's ear!

 

[Ax^]

That’s part of my point though. Every F1 driver is good, but without the right car they’re, relatively, also ran. Look what Russell was doing until he was put in Hamilton’s car. Then he became “better” than he had been previously in F1. This strongly implies that it doesn’t matter that you are a good driver until you get the right car. Hamilton has had this for the last seven seasons. This year he came up against someone who is a good driver, in a good car.

Des thats a little disingenuous, Russell was part of the Merc drivers programme and had spent plenty of time in former car of merc's

he also completed a driver test of over 100 laps the year before for a tyre test

did sim work for merc and was also working for what was more or less a customer team of works


he being able to handled a merc car that was dailed in under Lewis imput is not that strange
and he only beat bottas who is heat and miss with a beast of a car

lets see next year


looks at Hamiltions pervious team mates Alonso, Button, Kovieln and even Nico

he bossed them all with one retiring as beating him in one year was to much to carry on with the sport

LH is a proven goat and they rigged this year against merc because of it and then a screwy finish to the last race of the year

Alonso beat Schumacher in a fair fight without the help of the FIA

 

[Athos]

I'm pretty sure the exact rule has been cited/shared somewhere, possibly including on this thread.

Will try to track it down once I'm in front of my laptop.

Please do. I had a quick look, but found nothing that could reasonably be interpreted as giving the Race Director unfettered discretion to ignore rules.

 

[Ax^]

and also for many years Neweys focus has not been with f1

odd that his first year back the redbull suddenly becomes a better race car

but of course its all max talent

Also - and as I say, this isnt my sport - but isnt it a but weird the team bosses have a direct line to what is effectively the referee? Imagine if Fergie had had an earpiece in the ref's ear!

thats why Masi is weak , try that with charlie whitting

 

[Ax^]

The problem as far as I understand from all the handwringing all over the media today from all sorts of 'experts', is that no rules were broken because there is one overarrching bonkers rule which is that the Race Director can use his discretion to override all the other rules. Which he apparently did and he was apparently fully within his rights to.

thats the bit that underminds the rules going forward

whats the point in regulations of the Race Director can wave his hand and go well "fuck it"

Masi has previously enforced rules about all cars being allowed to unlap themselves and the race restarting the next lap effile GP 2020 being one of them

the FIA know they have screwed up here but cannot face the repercussions

so Magic Wand thinking

 

[Petcha]

Please do. I had a quick look, but found nothing that could reasonably be interpreted as giving the Race Director unfettered discretion to ignore rules.

Two different sources. Your sport needs to sort it's wording out though. And not put so much power in one man's hands!

Section 48.12 reads: “Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.”

Clearly, the safety car should not have returned to the pits when it did given there were three cars still left who had not unlapped themselves and while rules are at the discretion of the race director, it difficult to see how he hasn’t made a huge error of judgment here.

 

[Ax^]

Honestly should of been a red flag and a standing restart but Masi did not have the stones to make that call


thats because he is inexperienced and has never had any other experience within the sport
and the lack of a spine to tell team bosses and liberty to fuck off


as Horner remarked in the last race of the season we are missing Whiting presence in the sport atm
unless they sort that out its fubarred

 

[Ax^]

I'm more disappointed with the sport that i have invested in for years than angry at the result

Max did nothing wrong by winning and lewis was comprimised by the Race Directors dodgy call at the end

the fact this happened on the greatest spectacle the sport has produced since disappearing behind a paywall at the start of the hybrid era is so stupid in my viewpoint

as i think neutral fans will see no point in watching next season because the race director can make up the rules as he goes along

we had 6.5 million viewers yesterday and what did the see the pinical of motorsport not knowing what it was doing