F1 2016
- Thread starter 1%er
- Start date
dessiato
🇪🇸 españa te quiero
I'll give it a try, but my connection is really playing up today.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Go to a bar with good internet
1%er
Well-Known Member
I'd agree
Championship
Nico 50
Lewis 33
Dan Ric 24
Kimi 18
Romain 18
Who'd have thunk it
1%er
Well-Known Member
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Exactly. There are 21 races. Nineteen to go. 475 points available.Yep
He has made the best of two bad races (starts), can't be written off yet
He needs much better starts. But there's time to work on that.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
1%er
Well-Known Member
The people at the track and watching need to know right away who is fastest and not wait for people to calculate who is fastest, I can't see the teams all agreeing to it, but who knows.
The two best options are not even going to be discussed apparently, they are go back to 2015 for the whole thing or just for q3
The two best options are not even going to be discussed apparently, they are go back to 2015 for the whole thing or just for q3
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
I don't think the TV audiences are so huge for qualifying that lack of track action is problem for TV. If you like F1 you'll watch an empty track and listen to reports about wing upgrades.
But if the promoters want more fun for the trackside fans on the Saturday, it can't be beyond the wit of man, woman or child to come up with some all-in wrestling between the teams' PR people, or wet T-shirt contests for the mechanics, or a Great Grand Prix Bake-Off for the catering people.
But if the promoters want more fun for the trackside fans on the Saturday, it can't be beyond the wit of man, woman or child to come up with some all-in wrestling between the teams' PR people, or wet T-shirt contests for the mechanics, or a Great Grand Prix Bake-Off for the catering people.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Could F1 finish the season with only 9 teams on the grid
With all the talk about qualifying some news stories may have slipped under the radar. Sauber F1 are in serious financial troubles and have been looking for a new partner for a couple of years without success. They have been unable to pay for any meaningful developments to there 2016 car and it is in effect the same car they raced last year, other than it has the 2016 Ferrari power-unit in the back. I believe this is why their technical director Mark Smith left the company just prior to the start of the season. If they don't find a partner or another major sponsor in the next couple of months I don't think we will see them racing at the end of the season. The other team with with massive problems is Force India, their two major shareholders are either in prison or on the run, Roy Sahara remains in Jail in India and Vijay Mallya appears to be hiding in the UK as a number of arrest warrants have been issued against him in India, between them they own 85% of the team and it is one of their remaining realizable assets. While they have recently signed a sponsorship deal with Smirnoff their major team sponsor Sahara hasn't paid their sponsorship fees for well over a year as the Indian courts have seized the company asserts. How long before the team itself is seized by the courts.
European Commission and Formula 1
As mentioned above in the thread, two teams have written to the European Union's anti-competition unit complaining about unlawful and anti-competitive governance, also unfair income distribution systems with-in Formula 1, they are claiming that the Strategy Group is unlawful and breaches the EU's competition rules and also that the income distribution systems unfairly benefits some teams. I'm sure that it is no coincidence that the two teams who have made the complaint are the two teams mentioned in the above text as both having server problems.
Those of you who follow and understand F1 governance will realize that this complaint can only benefit one person, if the EU decide to take it up. That person is Bernie who may well be in a position to tear up the current contacts with the teams and the FIA, and also allow FOM to disband the Strategy Group if the EU find that the sport breaches its anti-competition rules, yes he may well have to pay a fine but that money will come from the total F1 pot, so all teams will end up having to pay, as their prize money will be reduced. Ecclestone has confirmed that he has been in discussions with the European Commission and said "the European Commission is beginning to be a little more interested in formula one and whether the competition laws are respected. If they really have doubts, it could mean the contracts must be torn up before 2020".
He has got his retaliation in first by claiming "the two big teams buy votes. If their clients (customer teams) do not pay on time, there are no engines, unless you vote the way the manufacturer wants you to. It means the FIA and I are left with one vote only".
The FIA have learned nothing from history (qualifying)
Haven't we been here before? Didn't they change qualifying last time one team was dominant? Wasn't aggregated qualifying times a total disaster?
In 2004 Michael Schumacher won 12 out of the first 13 races of the season in his Ferrari (he was also champion the previous season), "we need to change the qualifying system to give other teams a chance" came the cry. So what happened? In 2005 the qualifying system was changed to an aggregated system, the drivers did a low fuel qualifying on Saturday and then on Sunday they did a qualifying lap in race trim with race fuel and the grid was set by a aggregated time of both sessions, but lets not forget in those days we had in-race refueling, so teams had a choice, run light for a better grid position, or risk carrying more fuel in the hope of benefiting from a different race strategy. It was a disaster then (all be it a different system) and will be a disaster now. What was the result? Michael Schumacher and the Ferrari team continued to dominate.
It is clear to everyone except the FIA and FOM that the new elimination qualifying format does not work, so why look at an aggregate system that will deliver even more negatives than what we have at the moment. The fastest teams will still be fastest over two laps, the teams and drivers will quickly work out exactly how best to maximize the life of tyres and energy recovery systems (ERS) for whatever number of laps they need to run, the problem for fans is that teams may find it is better not to run flat-out in both sessions to get the best from the tyres and the ERS.
Look how exciting the qualifying was last race in Bahrain, Lewis banged in a massive lap right at the end to take pole, where would that excitement be if everyone had to sit and wait for the times to be added together to see who was fastest. The lunatics are running the asylum
Nico Rosberg and the Panama papers
Lawyers for Rosberg have been quick to explain that he didn't use the British Virgin Islands registered based company to avoid paying tax, "it is solely for liability reasons and to enable him to operate internationally". As he is a resident of Monaco why would he, he lives there so he doesn't have to pay tax along with many other Formula 1 drivers (the only residents who pay personal income tax in Monaco are French nationals and he isn't French).
With all the talk about qualifying some news stories may have slipped under the radar. Sauber F1 are in serious financial troubles and have been looking for a new partner for a couple of years without success. They have been unable to pay for any meaningful developments to there 2016 car and it is in effect the same car they raced last year, other than it has the 2016 Ferrari power-unit in the back. I believe this is why their technical director Mark Smith left the company just prior to the start of the season. If they don't find a partner or another major sponsor in the next couple of months I don't think we will see them racing at the end of the season. The other team with with massive problems is Force India, their two major shareholders are either in prison or on the run, Roy Sahara remains in Jail in India and Vijay Mallya appears to be hiding in the UK as a number of arrest warrants have been issued against him in India, between them they own 85% of the team and it is one of their remaining realizable assets. While they have recently signed a sponsorship deal with Smirnoff their major team sponsor Sahara hasn't paid their sponsorship fees for well over a year as the Indian courts have seized the company asserts. How long before the team itself is seized by the courts.
European Commission and Formula 1
As mentioned above in the thread, two teams have written to the European Union's anti-competition unit complaining about unlawful and anti-competitive governance, also unfair income distribution systems with-in Formula 1, they are claiming that the Strategy Group is unlawful and breaches the EU's competition rules and also that the income distribution systems unfairly benefits some teams. I'm sure that it is no coincidence that the two teams who have made the complaint are the two teams mentioned in the above text as both having server problems.
Those of you who follow and understand F1 governance will realize that this complaint can only benefit one person, if the EU decide to take it up. That person is Bernie who may well be in a position to tear up the current contacts with the teams and the FIA, and also allow FOM to disband the Strategy Group if the EU find that the sport breaches its anti-competition rules, yes he may well have to pay a fine but that money will come from the total F1 pot, so all teams will end up having to pay, as their prize money will be reduced. Ecclestone has confirmed that he has been in discussions with the European Commission and said "the European Commission is beginning to be a little more interested in formula one and whether the competition laws are respected. If they really have doubts, it could mean the contracts must be torn up before 2020".
He has got his retaliation in first by claiming "the two big teams buy votes. If their clients (customer teams) do not pay on time, there are no engines, unless you vote the way the manufacturer wants you to. It means the FIA and I are left with one vote only".
The FIA have learned nothing from history (qualifying)
Haven't we been here before? Didn't they change qualifying last time one team was dominant? Wasn't aggregated qualifying times a total disaster?
In 2004 Michael Schumacher won 12 out of the first 13 races of the season in his Ferrari (he was also champion the previous season), "we need to change the qualifying system to give other teams a chance" came the cry. So what happened? In 2005 the qualifying system was changed to an aggregated system, the drivers did a low fuel qualifying on Saturday and then on Sunday they did a qualifying lap in race trim with race fuel and the grid was set by a aggregated time of both sessions, but lets not forget in those days we had in-race refueling, so teams had a choice, run light for a better grid position, or risk carrying more fuel in the hope of benefiting from a different race strategy. It was a disaster then (all be it a different system) and will be a disaster now. What was the result? Michael Schumacher and the Ferrari team continued to dominate.
It is clear to everyone except the FIA and FOM that the new elimination qualifying format does not work, so why look at an aggregate system that will deliver even more negatives than what we have at the moment. The fastest teams will still be fastest over two laps, the teams and drivers will quickly work out exactly how best to maximize the life of tyres and energy recovery systems (ERS) for whatever number of laps they need to run, the problem for fans is that teams may find it is better not to run flat-out in both sessions to get the best from the tyres and the ERS.
Look how exciting the qualifying was last race in Bahrain, Lewis banged in a massive lap right at the end to take pole, where would that excitement be if everyone had to sit and wait for the times to be added together to see who was fastest. The lunatics are running the asylum
Nico Rosberg and the Panama papers
Lawyers for Rosberg have been quick to explain that he didn't use the British Virgin Islands registered based company to avoid paying tax, "it is solely for liability reasons and to enable him to operate internationally". As he is a resident of Monaco why would he, he lives there so he doesn't have to pay tax along with many other Formula 1 drivers
(the only residents who pay personal income tax in Monaco are French nationals and he isn't French).
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1%er
Well-Known Member
Formula 1 team payments for 2016
The table below shows how the money for the teams has been split for last seasons results. The Column 1 pot is divided equally amongst all qualifying teams with each estimated to earn $33.5m. Column 2 is calculated on a sliding scale from first to 10th place with first receiving 19 per cent of the fund, sixth 10 per cent and 10th four per cent. There are constructors' championship bonus (CCB) payments for four teams, Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and McLaren, which have been agreed in separate deals. There is also a long-standing team payment for Ferrari and other fixed prize fund payouts such as a heritage bonus for Williams and negotiated payments for Red Bull Racing and Mercedes. Red Bull receives its extra annual payment for being the first team to sign the current Concorde agreement, which runs until 2020, while Mercedes will earn its bonus annually from now on after meeting its agreed target of two world championships.
At $965m, the teams' payouts are nine per cent up on last year's total payout of $883m despite there being the same number of rounds (19 in 2015). However, a $35m bonus negotiated by Mercedes for a second constructors' championship is paid from a separate reserve, making the purified revenue increase $47m, or roughly five per cent. FOM's 2015 turnover is estimated at $1.9bn, with underlying revenues estimated $1.4bn. These are shared between FOM and the teams on an approximate 35/65 split based on terms of individual bilateral contracts.
The table below shows how the money for the teams has been split for last seasons results. The Column 1 pot is divided equally amongst all qualifying teams with each estimated to earn $33.5m. Column 2 is calculated on a sliding scale from first to 10th place with first receiving 19 per cent of the fund, sixth 10 per cent and 10th four per cent. There are constructors' championship bonus (CCB) payments for four teams, Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull and McLaren, which have been agreed in separate deals. There is also a long-standing team payment for Ferrari and other fixed prize fund payouts such as a heritage bonus for Williams and negotiated payments for Red Bull Racing and Mercedes. Red Bull receives its extra annual payment for being the first team to sign the current Concorde agreement, which runs until 2020, while Mercedes will earn its bonus annually from now on after meeting its agreed target of two world championships.
At $965m, the teams' payouts are nine per cent up on last year's total payout of $883m despite there being the same number of rounds (19 in 2015). However, a $35m bonus negotiated by Mercedes for a second constructors' championship is paid from a separate reserve, making the purified revenue increase $47m, or roughly five per cent. FOM's 2015 turnover is estimated at $1.9bn, with underlying revenues estimated $1.4bn. These are shared between FOM and the teams on an approximate 35/65 split based on terms of individual bilateral contracts.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Looks like qualifying will not be changed
According to news reports, all 11 teams have written to jean Todt, Bernie Ecclestone and CVC Capital Partners calling for a return to the 2015 qualifying system, but FOM and the FIA are saying that a return to the 2015 system isn't up for discussion and that the only options are keeping the system as it currently is or changing to an aggregate time qualifying system. On Sunday, a meeting in Bahrain was held between Todt, Ecclestone and Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery where they put forward the aggregate system, but this was unanimously rejected by the teams. So unless FOM and the FIA move their position we will be stuck with the new system for China. A compromise system where Q3 is changed to the old system seems to be the best option to me, but as far as i am aware this option isn't on the agenda.
Edit: Unconfirmed reports are starting to come out about the meeting held today between teams, the FIA and FOM and it seems that the FIA and FOM may have caved-in over qualifying and F1 will be returning to the 2015 qualifying system, I hope this is the case, I have only heard it for one person at the moment but they claim they got it from 3 sources.
Edit again, it seems that the teams put their collective foot down and threatened to boycott Q1 in China unless the FIA and FOM agreed to return to last years qualifying format, that will now be the format for the rest of the season, Hooray!!
According to news reports, all 11 teams have written to jean Todt, Bernie Ecclestone and CVC Capital Partners calling for a return to the 2015 qualifying system, but FOM and the FIA are saying that a return to the 2015 system isn't up for discussion and that the only options are keeping the system as it currently is or changing to an aggregate time qualifying system. On Sunday, a meeting in Bahrain was held between Todt, Ecclestone and Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery where they put forward the aggregate system, but this was unanimously rejected by the teams. So unless FOM and the FIA move their position we will be stuck with the new system for China. A compromise system where Q3 is changed to the old system seems to be the best option to me, but as far as i am aware this option isn't on the agenda.
Edit: Unconfirmed reports are starting to come out about the meeting held today between teams, the FIA and FOM and it seems that the FIA and FOM may have caved-in over qualifying and F1 will be returning to the 2015 qualifying system, I hope this is the case, I have only heard it for one person at the moment but they claim they got it from 3 sources.
Edit again, it seems that the teams put their collective foot down and threatened to boycott Q1 in China unless the FIA and FOM agreed to return to last years qualifying format, that will now be the format for the rest of the season, Hooray!!
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Limejuice
Well-Known Member
1%er
Well-Known Member
They were not going to boycott China, just qualifying 1 in China.
Supine
Newt Member
I can see it now, all the teams 'boycotting Q1' and then all the teams apart from Mercedes going out in the last few minutes to do a hot lap. Would be fun to watch
1%er
Well-Known Member
Yep, would have to better than it wasI can see it now, all the teams 'boycotting Q1' and then all the teams apart from Mercedes going out in the last few minutes to do a hot lap. Would be fun to watch
I'm not sure that the FIA and FOM caved in to the teams threats, it is more likely that they realized it was going to be bad for the fans if they kept on messing with qualifying, I think it became clear that having an aggregate system would turn fans off.
Now all they have to do is sort the 2017 rules out
1%er
Well-Known Member
Could Sauber become Alfa Romeo
With more rumors of the team’s financial turmoil continuing to hit the news, apparently they have again been unable to pay all staff their full wages last month there are whispers that the team may be about to join forces with Alfa Romeo and once again become Ferrari's junior team. Sauber are one of the longest standing teams in F1 and it would be a shame to see them disappear from the grid, but unless they can up with some much needed funding they will not make it to the end of the season. It is being reported here that Banco do Brasil and another sponsor have made advanced payment to the team to cover the currant shortfall, but that isn't going to happen every month.
Looks like Monza could be sorted out
Italian media source are reporting the news that Ivan Capelli has resigned as a chief of Monza's circuit operator Sias. This could help change the stalemate that has been holding up the agreement between FOM and Monza. Previously, Bernie has said he has "no confidence in the management of Sias" as they wanted to reshape the track to suit MotoGP racing. Now the driving force behind that change has resigned it looks likely that a deal to extend the contract with Monza could be sorted out soon. Will they bring back Bernie's mate Federico Bendinelli,I guess we will have to wait and see.
Could qualifying change again in 2017
Whilst news reports are claiming that qualifying is sorted out, it may only be for this season. Apparently, the teams, the FIA and FOM have agreed to have a "global assessment" of the format of the weekend for 2017. Ecclestone has now stated that a race could replace Saturday's qualifying session. "We've been looking, basically more at qualifying than anything, Maybe having a race on the Saturday which would count instead of qualifying, for example. We're looking at all these things, which would be [on the agenda] for next year obviously. We've made a big enough muck up to do that for this year, so must not do that again" he told Sky Sport.
With more rumors of the team’s financial turmoil continuing to hit the news, apparently they have again been unable to pay all staff their full wages last month there are whispers that the team may be about to join forces with Alfa Romeo and once again become Ferrari's junior team. Sauber are one of the longest standing teams in F1 and it would be a shame to see them disappear from the grid, but unless they can up with some much needed funding they will not make it to the end of the season. It is being reported here that Banco do Brasil and another sponsor have made advanced payment to the team to cover the currant shortfall, but that isn't going to happen every month.
Looks like Monza could be sorted out
Italian media source are reporting the news that Ivan Capelli has resigned as a chief of Monza's circuit operator Sias. This could help change the stalemate that has been holding up the agreement between FOM and Monza. Previously, Bernie has said he has "no confidence in the management of Sias" as they wanted to reshape the track to suit MotoGP racing. Now the driving force behind that change has resigned it looks likely that a deal to extend the contract with Monza could be sorted out soon. Will they bring back Bernie's mate Federico Bendinelli,I guess we will have to wait and see.
Could qualifying change again in 2017
Whilst news reports are claiming that qualifying is sorted out, it may only be for this season. Apparently, the teams, the FIA and FOM have agreed to have a "global assessment" of the format of the weekend for 2017. Ecclestone has now stated that a race could replace Saturday's qualifying session. "We've been looking, basically more at qualifying than anything, Maybe having a race on the Saturday which would count instead of qualifying, for example. We're looking at all these things, which would be [on the agenda] for next year obviously. We've made a big enough muck up to do that for this year, so must not do that again" he told Sky Sport.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
So, China this weekend. UK times:
Fri 15/4
FP1 03.00
FP2 07.00
Sat 16/4
FP3 05.00
Qual 08.00
Sun 17/4
Race 07.00
I'm not sure I'll be watching practices 1 and 3 live.
But qualifying and a race to start the day off - excellent.
(But I guess this is bad timing for South American audiences...)
Fri 15/4
FP1 03.00
FP2 07.00
Sat 16/4
FP3 05.00
Qual 08.00
Sun 17/4
Race 07.00
I'm not sure I'll be watching practices 1 and 3 live.
But qualifying and a race to start the day off - excellent.
(But I guess this is bad timing for South American audiences...)
