Does the left understand the working class and how would they answer their concerns?

[CyberRose]

Really?

I'm guessing all the people presently employed in the financial sectors would be sitting on their holes eating grapes then?

Surely they'll be used in other industries no? Or cleaning toilets or summat?

Yes of course people will still need to work under bloody communism, didn't your books tell you that?!

 

[_pH_]

The rest will be automated and will have long lasting parts.

Machines that never go wrong

 

[revol68]

It's called selfishness revol. In the real world, there is conflict between working class man A and working class man B. As you've pointed out numerous times, the working class are not a homogenous group, why do you think man A and man B will have exactly the same idea about what they think they're worth? And if they don't, how do get around this problem?

See in all this you only tak of Man A and Man B, what is the pink elepant in the room? Oh that would be capitalism.

Whilst the working class allows itself to be pitted against itself through various forms of sectionalism, racism, nationalism and the like it will never amount to fuck all and we'll remain sad little cunts enviously eyeing up what our neighbour has.

You can accept that horribly petty and disgusting worldview as the 'real world' if you want but I'll give it a by ball and hope for something better, even if it doesn't come off I can at least be happy that I didn't reduce myself to whinging about people on the dole having a good time, or my neighbours doing the double and having a bigger tv than me.

 

[_pH_]

You seriously believe that? Srsly? That in your utopia there will NEVER be conflict about who gets what? It's ALL down to capitalism? Wow.

I mean, as it is, the left can't agree on a way forward, why would that change?

 

[revol68]

You seriously believe that? Srsly? That in your utopia there will NEVER be conflict about who gets what? Wow.

I mean, as it is, the left can't agree on a way forward, why would that change?

I'm sure there will be, but we aren't there yet, nor are we in control of the worlds resources so until then I'll suggest the working class takes it's arguments up with capitalism and not each other.

 

[audiotech]

Machines that never go wrong

Long lasting parts I said.

Every six months some lazy sod like yourself will oil it.

 

[_pH_]

I'm sure there will be, but we aren't there yet, nor are we in control of the worlds resources so until then I'll suggest the working class takes it's arguments up with capitalism and not each other.

OK, fair point, but it's a very 'head-in-the-sand' attitude to ignore the possibility in the future.

How would you deal with it? The working class are not homogenous, I think we all agree on that, there WILL be conflicts. How are they going to be resolved?

 

[_pH_]

Long lasting parts I said.

Every six months some lazy sod like yourself will oil it.

heh

 

[revol68]

Long lasting parts I said.

Every six months some lazy sod like yourself will oil it.

or have his internet posting from pre revolution divulged to the local commune.

 

[revol68]

OK, fair point, but it's a very 'head-in-the-sand' attitude to ignore the possibility in the future.

How would you deal with it?

yes it's head in the sand to ignore this future hypothetical problem whilst overlooking the problem that is facing us right here and now, namely capitalism.

and for the last time, what do you think i am the fucking philospher king of communism? I don't have ready made answers to every fucking possible scenario that could arise in a post capitalist society, needless to say I'd like resources alloacated on need but of course that is subjective and would be up to debate, which isn't something I have a problem with.

 

[_pH_]

yes it's head in the sand to ignore this future hypothetical problem whilst overlooking the problem that is facing us right here and now, namely capitalism.

and for the last time, what do you think i am the fucking philospher king of communism? I don't have ready made answers to every fucking possible scenario that could arise in a post capitalist society, needless to say I'd like resources alloacated on need but of course that is subjective and would be up to debate, which isn't something I have a problem with.

Well it is really. Is it not possible to consider both? Especially if you want a post-capitalist society to be sustainable.

And it's always very amusing to see you trot out that line every time someone asks you a question you don't an answer to.

What would happen if the debate doesn't result in consensus?

 

[_pH_]

or have his internet posting from pre revolution divulged to the local commune.

ah well, just as well there's pretty much fuck all chance of a revolution then innit?

 

[Refused as fuck]

OK, fair point, but it's a very 'head-in-the-sand' attitude to ignore the possibility in the future.

How would you deal with it? The working class are not homogenous, I think we all agree on that, there WILL be conflicts. How are they going to be resolved?

I wouldn't say it was "head in the sand". It's pragmatically recognising the the future is too far away to be of any importance right now. it's more practical to devote time and/or energy to gains which can be made today or tomorrow.


I've cleaned bog and emptied bins for work. It wasn't inspiring but I damn sure wasn't ashamed either. Made some great friends on those jobs. I'm no more happy now working in an office than I was getting my hands dirty.

 

[revol68]

Well it is really. Is it not possible to consider both? Especially if you want a post-capitalist society to be sustainable.

Well no it isn't really, what's important in the face of more and more capitalist attacks on working class conditions is to argue for the basic common of interests and to resist attempts to sectionalise and divide the class, to pit us against each other all jealously on the look out for someone getting an extra cola bottle in their 10p mix.

Then maybe with the development of such solidarity and the rejection of petty grasping attitudes towards each other we might begin to be in a position to allocate resources in a proper manner based on need.

 

[8ball]

The tricky thing is that some of the exploited have a standard of living many times higher than certain others among the exploited. Pretty easy under those circumstances to keep things sweet with all but the most powerless.

 

[Carousel]

Then maybe with the development of such solidarity and the rejection of petty grasping attitudes towards each other we might begin to be in a position to allocate resources in a proper manner based on need.

It's Jesus again isn't it. What is "need"? Yadda yaddah blahdy blah.

 

[Refused as fuck]

Jesus. What is "need"? Yadda yaddah blahdy blah.

You have become thoroughly bitter on your travails across time and space.

 

[8ball]

It's Jesus again isn't it. What is "need"? Yadda yaddah blahdy blah.

Mark 11:14-17

 

[_pH_]

I wouldn't say it was "head in the sand". It's pragmatically recognising the the future is too far away to be of any importance right now. it's more practical to devote time and/or energy to gains which can be made today or tomorrow.

nm!

 

[_pH_]

Well no it isn't really, what's important in the face of more and more capitalist attacks on working class conditions is to argue for the basic common of interests and to resist attempts to sectionalise and divide the class, to pit us against each other all jealously on the look out for someone getting an extra cola bottle in their 10p mix.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. And I suspect a lot of people who value security for themselves and their families would too. They would want to know where such security comes from before agreeing to a transition to a new kind of society (and, no, capitalism doesn't necessarily provide this at present).

Jealousy is a fairly basic human emotion though. How would you deal with this?

 

[8ball]

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. And I suspect a lot of people who value security for themselves and their families would too.

I'm not sure you get security for yourself and your family by rolling over and splaying your arse cheeks . .

 

[_pH_]

I'm not sure you get security for yourself and your family by rolling over and splaying your arse cheeks . .

Missing the point entirely.......

Good bit of selective quoting though, well done.

 

[Carousel]

And I suspect a lot of people who value security for themselves and their families would too.

Live fast, type hard, die young.

 

[_pH_]

Live fast, type hard, die young.

You don't really have anything useful to add to this debate do you?

 

[Carousel]

Sorry, what's at issue?

 

[_pH_]

Good question really.

 

[Refused as fuck]

Sorry, what's at issue?

There's no such thing, as you know very well.

 

[Carousel]

Ha ha. Just checking.

 

[8ball]

It was the 'type hard' bit that made me lol.

 

[LLETSA]

The working class need to get greedier in the sens eof demanding less work and more free time as well as access to the riches of the world.

Yes but who's going to do all the hard and often unpleasant work involved in keeping society going. Or getting it up and running again after the social breakdown that leads to revolution?

You never seem to want to answer this.