Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[ddraig]

For a bunch of non-angry vegans you lot on this thread don't half take things very personally.

What do you think my spurious claim was? I did not suggest vegans are unhealthy ffs.

I'm not at all interested in what you do or don't eat tbh, find it very boring listening to people talking about their dietary choices.

I am really interested though in how come increasing numbers of people around me seem to be living in such a way that controlling what they eat, their food rules, becomes a central part of their lives and idea of who they are. One friend's just stopped wheat, gluten and dairy, the ex is a paleo-nutter, my Mum's on some really weird diet prescribed by a quack crystal waving nutritionist.
It's a recent thing I think and i find it intriguing and weird, symptomatic of .. something.

you can ignore the thread you know
so some people defending their ethical and dietary choices on here translates to "becomes a central part of their lives and idea of who they are"
projection much?

 

[gentlegreen]

As is your reaction to it

I only have a slight understanding of it.
Ditto "safe spaces".
It's used - along with "SJW" and "feminazi" by messed-up male bloggers like thunderf00t - it's taken over from accusations of "political correctness"

I know to stay clear of that sort of nonsense.

 

[bimble]

ddraig i don't think you know what projection means.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

more timely aptness

You do get that nobody's been arguing that here, yes? Athos's point, whether you agree with it or not, was very different.

Seems to be a bit of a recurring pattern developing on this thread, with you popping up every now and then to misrepresent what others are saying by way of some little cartoon.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

So meat eaters drawing the line that allows meat eating shouldn't be condemned. Isn't that what the thread is about

 

[ddraig]

You do get that nobody's been arguing that here, yes? Athos's point, whether you agree with it or not, was very different.

Seems to be a bit of a recurring pattern developing on this thread, with you popping up every now and then to misrepresent what others are saying by way of some little cartoon.

lol! recurring pattern, that's what you do all the time here on this and other subjects, priceless
time for you to flounce the thread again yet?

 

[Casually Red]

I only have a slight understanding of it.
Ditto "safe spaces".
It's used - along with "SJW" and "feminazi" by messed-up male bloggers like thunderf00t - it's taken over from accusations of "political correctness"

I know to stay clear of that sort of nonsense.

It's actually used by people ...who identify as left wing for some bizarre reason...who insist on trigger warnings and stuff like that . The people who invented safe spaces , jazz handing and the like .
it's in turn scoffed at by people on the left, right and centre . Mentioning " trigger " in a negative fashion doesn't make anyone right wing ( or even Boycie ) . However the right wing have certainly gotten a great deal of internet mileage out of it . Unsurprisingly .

 

[Spymaster]

ddraig i don't think you know what projection means.

Pah!

Ddraigo's clearly a decent geezer, and he's an superb poster in the Wales forum (I lurk there - don't tell anyone-)

But he gets so bent-out-of-shape when it comes to plant-scoffing that it's really hard to resist giving him a prod every now and then!

Is that bad?

 

[bimble]

it is not bad. Its healthy, like a lovely spinach and kale smoothie.

 

[bestkeptsecret]

I'm not a vegan but I am a vaginatarian - do I get any brownie points for that?

 

[rubbershoes]

I'm not a vegan but I am a vaginatarian - do I get any brownie points for that?

No

 

[bestkeptsecret]

No

Damn - Well I can't take meat off the menu. Having to eat paste with the consistency of baby food is bad enough as it is

 

[mrs quoad]

Damn - Well I can't take meat off the menu. Having to eat paste with the consistency of baby food is bad enough as it is

Are there many edible pastes that lack the consistency of baby food?

(I added edible, after thinking "grinding paste.")

 

[PaoloSanchez]

How very convenient for you.

...what? lol. You rather "conveniently" surgically removed a snippet, responded with something fairly meaningless, and ignored the rest of the post. Anyway, as I said, what is deemed ok and not ok is not fixed and depends on the individuals beliefs and their circumstances. It's not a fixed thing. If you believe otherwise and believe that what is "ok" is a fixed thing, then it would be interesting to hear your thought processes behind that.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

lol! recurring pattern, that's what you do all the time here on this and other subjects, priceless
time for you to flounce the thread again yet?

I never flounced. Something else you've made up. I told PaoloSanchez that I would leave them there at a particular point as I thought the discussion was going nowhere. You really need to stop making shit up.

The idea that putting up the number of posts people have made on this thread proves anything is frankly bizarre.

 

[Athos]

...what? lol. You rather "conveniently" surgically removed a snippet, responded with something fairly meaningless, and ignored the rest of the post. Anyway, as I said, what is deemed ok and not ok is not fixed and depends on the individuals beliefs and their circumstances. It's not a fixed thing. If you believe otherwise and believe that what is "ok" is a fixed thing, then it would be interesting to hear your thought processes behind that.

Ood course is not fixed. Which is why many people find a lot of vegans' air of moral superiority irritating.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've been finding it hard to articulate the question that's nagged at me through this thread. I'm going to try to do it here.

Anyone looking in detail at the food production system we have at the moment is unlikely to think it is ok. Various aspects of it are clearly far from ok, primarily to do with animal welfare and environmental degradation. So how do we move forward from here? That's the question that nags at me. What results do we want to produce, and what is the best way to produce those results? What compromises are people prepared to make in order to forge effective alliances that will produce some of those results? Are the vegan activists posting here prepared to work with meat-eaters who want change? Is the free range meat or dairy farmer striving for sustainable and, to their eyes at least, humane farming methods the enemy or a potential ally? If the former, then what sort of change do you think is possible?

 

[Spymaster]

I've been finding it hard to articulate the question that's nagged at me through this thread. I'm going to try to do it here.

Anyone looking in detail at the food production system we have at the moment is unlikely to think it is ok. Various aspects of it are clearly far from ok, primarily to do with animal welfare and environmental degradation. So how do we move forward from here? That's the question that nags at me. What results do we want to produce, and what is the best way to produce those results? What compromises are people prepared to make in order to forge effective alliances that will produce some of those results? Are the vegan activists posting here prepared to work with meat-eaters who want change? Is the free range meat or dairy farmer striving for sustainable and, to their eyes at least, humane farming methods the enemy or a potential ally? If the former, then what sort of change do you think is possible?

Vegans are, by definition, extremists. I'll be surprised if any would accept working towards anything other than total abstinence from meat.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

As a for instance. CIWF. Enemy or potential ally?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Vegans are, by definition, extremists. I'll be surprised if any would accept working towards anything other than total abstinence from meat.

Well here we need to be careful in our definitions. There are animal welfare activists who are vegan. Many of the people who work for CIWF are vegan. And then there are vegan activists, such as the people who demonstrate in front of butcher shops. I'll let others decide what kind of activist they are, if indeed they are activists.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Ood course is not fixed. Which is why many people find a lot of vegans' air of moral superiority irritating.

Oh dear.
Well, as I said before, if you really do find it that irritating, you are not under any obligation to engage or participate in any vegan activity or discussions. (...and yet the subject appears to attract meat eaters like iron fillings to a magnet)

This alleged "air of superiority" that "a lot of vegans" have (no citations) is I suspect yet another rather convenient invention of yours. My non scientific hunch is that the irritation felt by "a lot of" meat eaters is based on their own inferiority complex and the guilty realisation that, as Richard Dawkins very accurately stated, "I have no defense for eating meat" and that it is a morally superior position.

I make no apology for believing veganism to be a morally superior position to meat eatery in the same way that I make no apology for believing that not being a pedophile is morally superior to pedophillia. I try not to rub it in anybody's face, however if meat eaters get up in my grill with the sort of crappy nonsensical arguments and heckling as evidenced in this thread, I reserve the right to stoutly defend my position.

 

[Athos]

Oh dear.
Well, as I said before, if you really do find it that irritating, you are not under any obligation to engage or participate in any vegan activity or discussions. (...and yet the subject appears to attract meat eaters like iron fillings to a magnet)

This alleged "air of superiority" that "a lot of vegans" have (no citations) is I suspect yet another rather convenient invention of yours. My non scientific hunch is that the irritation felt by "a lot of" meat eaters is based on their own inferiority complex and the guilty realisation that, as Richard Dawkins very accurately stated, "I have no defense for eating meat" and that it is a morally superior position.

I make no apology for believing veganism to be a morally superior position to meat eatery in the same way that I make no apology for believing that not being a pedophile is morally superior to pedophillia. I try not to rub it in anybody's face, however if meat eaters get up in my grill with the sort of crappy nonsensical arguments and heckling as evidenced in this thread, I reserve the right to stoutly defend my position.

Can you really not see why some people find some vegans' claims to moral superiority irritating?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Oh dear indeed.

 

[bimble]

This alleged "air of superiority" that "a lot of vegans" have (no citations) is I suspect yet another rather convenient invention of yours. ..
I make no apology for believing veganism to be a morally superior position to meat eatery in the same way that I make no apology for believing that not being a pedophile is morally superior to pedophillia.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Can you really not see why some people find some vegans' claims to moral superiority irritating?

I already answered that in my previous post. My non scientific hunch, meat eaters inferiority complex. They can feel it in their bones that what they're doing isn't that great and so scratch around looking for excuses and justifications and someone to lash out at, hence this "smug superior vegan" nonsense. If it bothers you that much then just stay out of the way, which should be very easy with you being in the overwhelming 99% majority. I'm not sure why you folks find that so hard.

Bottom line is, frankly, I really don't care if you find my position irritating or not, that's up to you. The behaviour of the non obligates in this thread has on balance been much worse than the vegheads (imo), that was mildly irritating I suppose. I think I'll just about survive.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If this were just about any other subject, I think many of the same people here privileging individual moral responsibility over class analysis and systems analysis would be acting very differently, and themselves be calling out others for having superficial, moralistic, counterproductive positions.

 

[Spymaster]

... meat eaters inferiority complex. They can feel it in their bones that what they're doing isn't that great and so scratch around looking for excuses and justifications ...

Do you really believe this nonsense?

It seems to be a vegan trope.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bottom line is, frankly, I really don't care if you find my position irritating or not, that's up to you.

This is in the General forum, tbf, so no reason particularly why your position should include some kind of politics. But it really does include zero useful politics. In the end it is little more than self-congratulation. It borders on nihilism.

 

[Casually Red]

And I was being mocked and chided earlier...by editor no less.. for saying there was vegan propaganda afoot .

Ha!!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Do you really believe this nonsense?

It seems to be a vegan trope.

We can only be forgiven for eating meat through this kind of mitigation - we're in denial, we're conflicted, we're ignorant. The alternative is something far worse - that we are monsters. It strikes me as a self-defence mechanism as much as anything, allowing the person to pity us as weak rather than condemn us as evil.