Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[ddraig]

For the record I don't believe a fucking word out of them about either the environment or health . No matter how much propaganda they bash out . I'm not giving them an inch . And I'm not saying that piss taking either . They get way too much of a free ride on their claims . I don't trust them , don't believe them . It's an ideological position built around an eating disorder .

oh fucking dear

What exactly do you think you've been doing on this thread?

where to?

 

[gentlegreen]

It's an ideological position built around an eating disorder .

I had six poos yesterday.

I no longer call myself "vegan" - though I am, materially at the moment, but thanks to "vegan (propagandists)" I'm eating a rapidly evolving spectacularly healthy diet - the best in my 57 year life - much better than even during the 20 years I was absolutely "vegan".
And once you realise the value of actually "treating your body as a temple", there is so much joy to be found in the quest for better and better ways to venerate it.
And modern vegetables are amazing - in a way that modern animal breeds and animal farming are not.

Oh and what a load of disingenuous crap lazily lifted from "bro" sites advocating the Flintstone lifestyle.

Methinks he doth protest too much ...

Casually Red how often do you eat green cruciferous veggies, and how much ?
How regular are you in the bathroom ?

 

[gentlegreen]

.

 

[Athos]

And once you realise the value of actually "treating your body as a temple"...

... you let anyone enter as long as they take their shoes off.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I think I'd reply that we all do things that damage the environment, like flying or using a car. And that, on balance, the pleasure I get from eating meat outweighs the displeasure of knowing the effects of that choice.

Everybody does something bad so there's no point in trying to improve anything, this applies especially if the "bad" thing that I'm doing is extremely pleasurable. Yeah, that sounds legit.

it's a wonder how we ever managed to stop burning witches and heretics and lessen the amount of racism, sexism and homophobia in the more civilised countries with that sort of "I don't care, I'm all right Jack" attitude.

What does 'not ok mean, though? Is your choice to use fossil fuel ok, notwithstanding the harm to the environment it causes?

"Not ok" means whatever you want it to mean and whatever your conscience tells you. Some people in some dark corners of the world believe it's ok to kill gays or to have sex with 8 year olds and chop hands off thieves. As far as I'm concerned those sorts of things are not ok. So who's "right" and how does one measure the "rightness"? Similarly with other (subjective) areas of ethics and morals, as we evolve and hopefully become more better behaved and "civilised", things that were once considered "ok" become "not ok". In my opinion, the non obligate killing and eating of animals is one of those ethical points that is in my DEFINITELY NOT OK box. A non apologetic meat eaters set of boxes is likely quite different from mine and that's up to them, but regardless it won't stop me from behaving according to what I believe to be ok,

"Yeah...buuuut...you can't be a vegan because you drive a car and fly in a plane, fossil fuels tho, and doormice get killed just so that you can have your vegetables...and...and...and I saw you step on a snail...and you've got a leather belt...you fucking vegan hypocrite". Oh dear, big Yawn! Seriously? On this I agree with ddraig, tedious hypocrisy hunting, scratching around for any little nick nack and tidbit to try and discredit vegans presumably because the meat eaters logical and ethical arguments don't really stand up to any sort of close scrutiny. Even though meat eaters supposedly don't really care about what vegans do or believe, they seem to be prepared to spend quite a lot of their valuable time and energy attempting (and mostly failing) to diss and rubbish the vegan message with rather weak retorts which are commonly used to try and justify the majority default position of not really giving a fuck. Even if all those things were true, non obligate omnivores do all of that AND kill and eat animals unnecessarily on top of flying and driving cars...and all of that just because they like the taste. Marvellous eh?

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Veganism is healthier - are you sure? What does healthier mean? Can you find anyone comparing vegans with meat/fish/dairy eaters that takes account of other life-style factors? I'm genuinely interested, because the Seventh Day Adventist studies (which are conducted on a population with a reasonably similar lifestyle) appear to show that the people eating some fish do better than the vegans.

If you really are genuinely interested then I would suggest doing some investigation for yourself. Even if it is the case that the health benefits are equal, health is only one of the reasons that people become vegan. In my opinion it is the combination of reasons that makes the vegan case strong, and on health alone most of the metrics indicate a plant heavy diet to have better health results.

There are no health benefits to avoiding honey or leather shoes that I have ever heard of.

What the...?

Growing plants is not necessarily less environmentally destructive than raising meat animals - there are different ways to do both of those things. There must be vegans and vegetarians around who daily consume produce from vast monocultures, if only on cost grounds.

Even if it is true that monocultures are involved in producing food that vegans and vegetarians eat, even more monoculture needs to be produced to provide the feed for the unsustainable levels of livestock, poultry, eggs and dairy that are consumed.

AS I understand it, veganism is not about avoiding causing suffering to animals but rather concentrates on not using animals (or exploiting them to use the more emotionally-loaded, preferred term); if you only talk about meat/fish/eggs you can argue that it's the same thing, as long as you accept that death always involves suffering. But honey is also verboten, as is eating the eggs of rescued battery hens although both bees and rescue hens appear to enjoy a perfectly happy existence.

Similar to Athos, there seems to be an awful lot of stratching around hunting for vegan gotchas with little or no understanding and mainly speculation and supposition. For those that are not really interested in veganism, don't bother with it, stay away, be happy with your eating of the flesh. You need not concern yourself with what those mad vegans are yapping on about. The thing is, for some strange reason, meat eaters seem to be as just as invested in this topic as the vegans, which I find quite amusing.

 

[bimble]

I've just learnt a new word : Orthorexia. Just saying like.
Orthorexia - Symptoms, Warning Signs and Side Effects of Orthorexia - Timberline Knolls

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I've just learnt a new word : Orthorexia. Just saying like.
Orthorexia - Symptoms, Warning Signs and Side Effects of Orthorexia - Timberline Knolls

...and?

 

[bimble]

And.. I am glad there's a word for the idea I was vaguely trying to describe early on somewhere in this thread. Not interested in fighting any angry vegans!

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Looks a bit like a hit and run.
I am so happy that you found yourself a nice new word and that you're not interested in fighting those mythical angry vegans. Good for you.

 

[Athos]

"Not ok" means whatever you want it to mean...

How very convenient for you.

 

[Athos]

Everybody does something bad so there's no point in trying to improve anything, this applies especially if the "bad" thing that I'm doing is extremely pleasurable.

I've not suggested that. My point was that perhaps, given we all fall short sometimes, all our efforts would be better put towards self-improvement in our own ways, rather than hectoring others from a position of smug sanctimony. Quite apart from anything else, it's counter-productive.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I've not suggested that. My point was that perhaps, given we all fall short sometimes, all our efforts would be better put towards self-improvement in our own ways, rather than hectoring others from a position of smug sanctimony. Quite apart from anything else, it's counter-productive.

lol, the "smug santimony" is pure invention and one of the excuses used to justify having a pop. If it's not to your liking you're not obliged to partake, and yet the non obligates appear not to be able to stop themselves. What's that all about?

 

[Casually Red]

You'll never win .

Never .

 

[Wilf]

52 pages of people arguing over something as inconsequential as dietary choices. Good job!

Well, somebody forgot to get the quinoa in for his tea tonight. See, that's me, a vegan and I'm ANNNNNGGGGGRRRRY!!!! mildly vexed.

 

[Athos]

lol, the "smug santimony" is pure invention and one of the excuses used to justify having a pop. If it's not to your liking you're not obliged to partake, and yet the non obligates appear not to be able to stop themselves. What's that all about?

I'm nor having a pop; just explaining why some vegans irritate people. And the pointlessness of them behaving that way.

 

[gentlegreen]

I've just learnt a new word : Orthorexia. Just saying like.
Orthorexia - Symptoms, Warning Signs and Side Effects of Orthorexia - Timberline Knolls

A person with orthorexia will be obsessed with defining and maintaining the perfect diet, rather than an ideal weight. She will fixate on eating foods that give her a feeling of being pure and healthy. An orthorexic may avoid numerous foods, including those made with:

• Artificial colors, flavors or preservatives
• Pesticides or genetic modification
• Fat, sugar or salt
• Animal or dairy products
• Other ingredients considered to be unhealthy

what a load of bollocks.

Note the use of "she" - and the suggestion that it would be normal to obsess about her weight ..

 

[bimble]

Calm down gentlegreen! It's a website for some weird women's treatment centre, that's why the 'she'.
But if you are 'triggered' by reading about the concept I am sorry. It was not intended as an attack or accusation.
It is a thing that I've felt for a long time, that an obsessive focus on dietary rules of whatever kind, when they become a huge part of someone's life and conversation, is not a very healthy thing, that's all, and was glad to find there's a word for that idea of something which resembles in some ways an eating disorder but is not one of the usually recognised ones.

 

[gentlegreen]

Your use of the word "triggered" is rather telling ...

 

[bimble]

Should I have said 'offended' instead? Or 'angered'? But I didn't put the word here with the intent of attacking you or making you feel bad. I think my ex boyfriend is definitely the thing described and he eats mountains of meat, it's definitely not about what is eaten just about how much the fixed rules of diet assume a huge part in self identity and daily brain-space if you know what I mean.

 

[gentlegreen]

Apart from the fact that I'm not at all bothered about GM or much bothered about pesticides - certainly not glyphosate, that could be me - and if I'm at all obsessive, it's because I have just emerged from a phase of my life where I got very careless about nutrition.

I found a Guardian article where 45 minutes of daily exercise is regarded as obsessive - I've done more than that every weekday for 30 years simply by cycling to work.

Orthorexia: when healthy eating turns against you

 

[gentlegreen]

Anyway, the new obsessive element of my daily diet is how to fit in 30 grammes of milled flaxseed.... (supplies omega 3 precursors and may help my prostate)

 

[cantsin]

not sure if this right place for it, but it felt like veganism reached a new place in mainstream culture for me today, when discussion about potential fantasy football players elicited the comment (rightly or wrongly, and based on no science etc, obvs) about veteran Sunderland striker Jermaine Defoe : " he's getting on a bit. but his vegan diet's giving him a big boost /physical advantage...." - doesn't seem long ago that the exact opposite would have been assumed about the effect of vegan diet on a pro sportsman.

 

[lefteri]

I found a Guardian article where 45 minutes of daily exercise is regarded as obsessive - I've done more than that every weekday for 30 years simply by cycling to work.

Orthorexia: when healthy eating turns against you

Cycling can be pretty low level exercise though unless you're cycling very vigorously, constantly

 

[gentlegreen]

Cycling can be pretty low level exercise though unless you're cycling very vigorously, constantly

I don't go nuts, but I like to be drenched in sweat when I arrive

 

[ddraig]

What exactly do you think you've been doing on this thread?

Calm down gentlegreen! It's a website for some weird women's treatment centre, that's why the 'she'.
But if you are 'triggered' by reading about the concept I am sorry. It was not intended as an attack or accusation.
It is a thing that I've felt for a long time, that an obsessive focus on dietary rules of whatever kind, when they become a huge part of someone's life and conversation, is not a very healthy thing, that's all, and was glad to find there's a word for that idea of something which resembles in some ways an eating disorder but is not one of the usually recognised ones.

Vegans are generally healthy and healthier than they were before becoming vegan so please stop with this shit, of course it's intended as an attack or a dig at the least

if you're going to have a go and make spurious claims then stand by them

 

[ddraig]

more timely aptness

 

[bimble]

Vegans are generally healthy and healthier than they were before becoming vegan so please stop with this shit, of course it's intended as an attack or a dig at the least

if you're going to have a go and make spurious claims then stand by them

For a bunch of non-angry vegans you lot on this thread don't half take things very personally.

What do you think my spurious claim was? I did not suggest vegans are unhealthy ffs.

I'm not at all interested in what you do or don't eat tbh, find it very boring listening to people talking about their dietary choices.

I am really interested though in how come increasing numbers of people around me seem to be living in such a way that controlling what they eat, their food rules, becomes a central part of their lives and idea of who they are. One friend's just stopped wheat, gluten and dairy, the ex is a paleo-nutter, my Mum's on some really weird diet prescribed by a quack crystal waving nutritionist.
It's a recent thing I think and i find it intriguing and weird, symptomatic of .. something.

 

[Casually Red]

Your use of the word "triggered" is rather telling ...

As is your reaction to it

 

[Casually Red]

For a bunch of non-angry vegans you lot on this thread don't half take things very personally.

What do you think my spurious claim was? I did not suggest vegans are unhealthy ffs.

I'm not at all interested in what you do or don't eat tbh, find it very boring listening to people talking about their dietary choices.

I am really interested though in how come increasing numbers of people around me seem to be living in such a way that controlling what they eat, their food rules, becomes a central part of their lives and idea of who they are. One friend's just stopped wheat, gluten and dairy, the ex is a paleo-nutter, my Mum's on some really weird diet prescribed by a quack crystal waving nutritionist.
It's a recent thing I think and i find it intriguing and weird, symptomatic of .. something.

It's identity now . Just look at the way they've forced an alternate identity on the carnists, blood mouths, malzoans etc . It's identity politics crossed with an eating disorder .