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Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

So how many of us meat eaters are better disposed to vegans and veganism after the arguments they've put forward on this thread?
Form an orderly queue...
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
Probably about the same number of vegans who are better disposed to meat eaters after this thread.
Click to expand...
Perhaps that's true, perhaps not. Non-obligate "omnis" outnumber vogons by several orders of magnitude and yet a significant number of them appear to feel threatened by the idea of an animal product free lifestyle. That may explain why most of the bitchiness and bad mouthing in this thread has been on the side of the meat eaters (although not scientifically proven).
 
PaoloSanchez said:
Perhaps that's true, perhaps not. Non-obligate "omnis" outnumber vogons by several orders of magnitude and yet a significant number of them appear to feel threatened by the idea of an animal product free lifestyle. That may explain why most of the bitchiness and bad mouthing in this thread has been on the side of the meat eaters (although not scientifically proven).
Click to expand...
Vogons? Spare us the poetry in that case.
 
Watermelon Man said:
No side effects whatsoever? Science says otherwise...


Dairy associated with increased risk of a wide-ranging group of ailments including accelerated aging, being overweight, kidney stones, childhood asthma, constipation, prediabetes and diabetes, prostate and other cancers, heart disease, imbalanced hormones, Parkinson’s disease, rheumatoid arthritis, rising blood pressure, skin wrinkling, sudden infant death syndrome, ulcerative colitis, bacterial vaginosis and multiple sclerosis.
Click to expand...

I followed a couple of the links above and they did not take me to articles associating dairy with the ailments suggested; the word 'may' is notable in its frequency.
It's almost as though the people writing those articles know perfectly well that science says a whole load of stuff, often contradicting other things science has said previously.


High in saturated fat, low in antioxidants and fibre. Contains cholesterol, trans fats, endotoxins and choline and may raise the risk of inflamation, heart disease, diabetes and certain cancers.
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Science now says that saturated fat is not a health risk factor, there is no reason for milk to contain antioxidants that I can think of, ditto fibre. Cholesterol is vital to mammalian life, no idea where the man-made fats come from other than over-processing, which is not a problem confined to milk products, endotoxins will generally be removed by pasteurisation (I think) and choline is, like cholesterol, vital to life. All kinds of thing may raise disease risks and there is a lot of excited research around diet and life-style, I am sure, but until we come across a group of people who are immune to the ills you list, solely because of their diet, this is just talk.


May promote acne and contribute risk of breast cancer, prostate cancer, other hormone dependent cancers, declining sperm counts and heart disease.
Click to expand...

Are these not things that have also been laid at the door of soy consumption?
 
gentlegreen said:
Cholesterol is vital to life but we make all that we need.
Soy reduces prostate and breast cancer risk.
Click to expand...

Cholesterol - the point I am failing to make is that cholesterol is not a bad or dangerous thing in food. Science used to think so but has changed its mind.
Soy and cancer - I am clearly not reading the same information that you are, however this does demonstrate my point that appealing to science rarely if ever provides the killer proof that some of us are hoping for.
 
Pretty sure that around the time that fat was declared to be the dietary Devil, plenty of people were smoking like chimneys while the tobacco industry was suppressing data that fingered smoking as a factor in heart disease. Slowly but surely science is coming round to the notion that it's sugar, particularly refined sucrose, which is an ingredient of concern. Especially since it gets added to food which has had most of the fat sucked out of it, which without sugar would taste like shit.
 
NoXion said:
Vogons? Spare us the poetry in that case.
Click to expand...
Hmmm :hmm:...well if it helps to keep some of the more rabid crunchers at bay, it may be a very good and useful deterrent :-

Oh freddled gruntbuggly,
Thy micturations are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits
On a lurgid bee.
Groop, I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes
And hooptiously drangle me
With crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon,
See if I don’t!
 
Worth just posting part of the wikipedia entry on the relationship between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease:

The scientific consensus is that saturated fat is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease, having been endorsed by many medical, scientific, heart-health, governmental and intergovernmental, and professional authorities, such as the World Health Organization,[1] the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Academy of Medicine,[2] the American Dietetic Association,[3] the Dietitians of Canada,[3] the British Dietetic Association,[4] American Heart Association,[5] the British Heart Foundation,[6] the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada,[7] the World Heart Federation,[8] the British National Health Service,[9] the United States Food and Drug Administration,[10] and the European Food Safety Authority.[11] All of these scientific and health organizations advise that saturated fat is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease, and recommend dietary limits on saturated fats as one means of reducing that risk. However, some meta-analyses of clinical trials and cohort studies have provided evidence against the consensus or significantly qualifying it,[12][13][14][15][16] and some health journalists[17] and scientists,[18] and trade associations[19] continue to reject it.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty formidable consensus so to say that 'Science now says that saturated fat is not a health risk factor' is more than a little misleading to say the least.
 
Jeff Robinson said:
Worth just posting part of the wikipedia entry on the relationship between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease:



That's a pretty formidable consensus so to say that 'Science now says that saturated fat is not a health risk factor' is more than a little misleading to say the least.
Click to expand...

Oh god, yeah you're right, silly me.
 
More vogon poetry...

Car-not-ivore
Today. I enjoyed a vegan meal--
sautéed cabbage,
roasted tomatoes,
and a Caesar salad,
with a side of veal.

Wait

Oh, never mind.

Vegan Blowjob
She told him to put it in a hot dog bun
"Kinky he thought,​

Licking It up and down she grinned seductively
"Do you like my meat baby,​

"No I'm a Vegan so I'll never swallow meat juices,

Vegan Thanksgiving
no dead birds in the oven
no innards in the stuffing
nor fatty drippings to be scraped and poured

the smell of roasted veggies
wafts through the wintry air
pumpkin and sweet potatoes
marshmallows green beans lentils
turnips & collard greens
hashed browns & black-eyed peas
quinoa sorghum cuscus hummus
carrots leak broccoli Romanescu
gumbo in southern regions
wild rice dishes in the north
tastily spiced with turmeric
cumin and baked paprika
Indian curry soy sauce chipotle
as well as with the usual suspects
of garlic salt and pepper
and whatever fits the taste of hosts

in short
a venerable feast to demonstrate
how nature feeds us a large cornucopia
of plants for our delight and sustenance

in short
no need to kill a bird

Soy Chorizo
Means
"I am sausage"
in Spanish

Vegan poems on Hello Poetry
 
Last edited:
Jeff Robinson said:
Worth just posting part of the wikipedia entry on the relationship between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease:



That's a pretty formidable consensus so to say that 'Science now says that saturated fat is not a health risk factor' is more than a little misleading to say the least.
Click to expand...
If you want to continue to feel good about consuming saturated fat then it's worth clinging on to any "science" that says that there's nowt wrong with lots of saturated fat and ignore the wealth of data suggesting otherwise.
 
PaoloSanchez said:
Perhaps that's true, perhaps not. Non-obligate "omnis" outnumber vogons by several orders of magnitude and yet a significant number of them appear to feel threatened by the idea of an animal product free lifestyle. That may explain why most of the bitchiness and bad mouthing in this thread has been on the side of the meat eaters (although not scientifically proven).
Click to expand...
Again with this "feeling threatened" bollocks.

I'm not threatened in the slightest by a meat free diet, I simply don't want one for myself and never will.
 
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