Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[ddraig]

no, you can easily survive and eat without causing cruelty to animals
that is your choice as you've said yourself

just more twisting from you as per

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Done properly, I don't think it is cruelty necessarily.

I know you do, but you seem unable or unwilling to even try to understand why others might not agree.

 

[AnnaKarpik]

Oh "carnist fragility" again. How many times has this phrase cropped up on this thread to dismiss what meat eaters are saying? Want a debate? Like fuck you do. Want to parade around in your holier-than-thou non-animal knickers? Fuck yeah!

 

[Pickman's model]

That website discusses the measures slaughterhouses need to employ in order to keep animals calm. Right up to the instant when they are killed.

You, and some others on this thread, think 'humane slaughter' is an oxymoron. I don't.

If humane slaughter marked by measures taken to keep victims calm to the moment of death then auschwitz humane.

 

[mrs quoad]

Why bother if it's ok to kill animals for your plate/tastebuds??
What purpose does it serve other than to alleviate the carnist fragility of people like you who on the one hand say they care about animal cruelty/welfare and on the other saying they've no issues with animals being unnecessarily slaughtered for food!?????
They'd be much calmer (and alive) if they weren't in the slaughter house to start with

You can't have unnecessary death without unnecessary life. You seem to fetishise death in quite an absolute way.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It appears that what ddraig wants is for meat eaters either to say that they don't give a fuck or to admit that they're hypocrites. If you give a fuck, you should be a vegan - that's what Jeff Robinson said straight out. So the position 'gives a fuck and still eats meat' simply doesn't exist, except in someone who is somehow weak or conflicted, hence the 'fragility' bit. Or we must just not have thought about it properly - the patronising option, which seems quite popular.

 

[dylanredefined]

Meat tastes great and I don't care about animals. If I could afford to I'd happily hunt and butcher my own meat.

 

[pengaleng]

meat is the best invention ever

I got meself a nice sirloin today from m&s, you might think it's slaughter, but it's m&s slaughter, top quality slaughter.

forgot to get chestnut mushrooms tho

 

[Casually Red]

no, you can easily survive and eat without causing cruelty to animals
that is your choice as you've said yourself

just more twisting from you as per

Are you one of those nudists too ?

 

[Casually Red]

Wrong wrong and so wrong

What is wrong with referring to someone as them? Or "they're the boss" rather than "she is the boss"
Or "they'll be back later" rather than "she'll be back later"??
Or "they said" rather than "she said"??

Cos it sounds like you're talking about more than one person . It does . There's no getting away from it .

 

[pengaleng]

Cos it sounds like you're talking about more than one person . It does . There's no getting away from it .

no one really cares what you think. yer just showing yer hand.

 

[Casually Red]

Hitler was a stickler for grammer.

Just sayin'

A grammar nazi

 

[mojo pixy]

these arguments are well 1992

FOURHUNDREDANDFIFTYMILLIONANIMALSAREMURDEREDINBRITAINEVERYYEAR, TOBESHOVEDDOWNYOURTHROATANDSHATOUTOFYOURARSE. MUURRDAAARGH!!

 

[pengaleng]

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You can't have unnecessary death without unnecessary life. You seem to fetishise death in quite an absolute way.

Yes, I've been avoiding that issue, but those particular individuals only exist because they are going to be killed.

I do think there's a wider issue to do with habitat destruction and resource use/abuse, which is a powerful argument for the reform of farming. But that's not an absolute argument against all meat.

Allan Savory has a controversial theory regarding desertification and the benefits of managed grazing by livestock. His ted talk is here.

 

[ddraig]

Done properly, I don't think it is cruelty necessarily.

I know you do, but you seem unable or unwilling to even try to understand why others might not agree.

You don't think killing an animal is cruel??? That's some twisted logic right there!

 

[gentlegreen]

Allan Savory has a controversial theory regarding desertification and the benefits of managed grazing by livestock. His ted talk is here.

Sounds too good to be true - I saw that video appear but haven't watched it. I've been googling around to see if he's known to be deluded or not - there's masses of bullshit "science" around at the moment and it makes my brain hurt to watch dodgy videos.

Allan Savory debunked - Google Search

 

[ddraig]

Done properly, I don't think it is cruelty necessarily.

I know you do, but you seem unable or unwilling to even try to understand why others might not agree.

http://yourveganfallacyis.com/files/fallacy/media/tumblr_n6mw5nykef1tzue9go1_1280.jpg

 

[sleaterkinney]

This they know "they're about to die" is misleading. Put animals around humans and they will be worried and trying to escape, they're prey - that's what they do. I've been to modern slaughterhouses and it is quick and painless, no cruelty involved at all.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Sounds too good to be true - I saw that video appear but haven't watched it. I've been googling around to see if he's known to be deluded or not - there's masses of bullshit "science" around at the moment and it makes my brain hurt to watch dodgy videos.

Allan Savory debunked - Google Search

You also have to follow the debunking links to see if they've been debunked. Monbiot isn't impressed. This is a good line:

He began by comparing himself to Galileo, which is never a good sign, and it went downhill from there.

 

[ViolentPanda]

There's really not much to separate an oyster from a plant in terms of awareness, sensitivity or cognition. The main reason I don't eat them is that (I assume) they taste fucking foul.

Not if you cook 'em. Back when they were working class fare, we cooked 'em. usually in pies, but sometimes slow-fried. Very nice. aw though, with a twist of lemon juice, they taste like phlob.

 

[ddraig]

Oh "carnist fragility" again. How many times has this phrase cropped up on this thread to dismiss what meat eaters are saying? Want a debate? Like fuck you do. Want to parade around in your holier-than-thou non-animal knickers? Fuck yeah!

What debate do you want??

 

[ddraig]

This they know "they're about to die" is misleading. Put animals around humans and they will be worried and trying to escape, they're prey - that's what they do. I've been to modern slaughterhouses and it is quick and painless, no cruelty involved at all.

Thread over, nothing to see here, no cruelty involved in slaughter houses or killing something, it's all done with love these days!

 

[ViolentPanda]

I went to a funding event in Birmingham yesterday. The food served was "Mexican wraps", Vegan and gluten-free. Tasty, but I wouldn't choose to eat something with that many pulses in every day, as my digestion is fucked enough as it is.

 

[gentlegreen]

I wouldn't choose to eat something with that many pulses in every day, as my digestion is fucked enough as it is.

you could try sprouting 'em

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Why bother if it's ok to kill animals for your plate/tastebuds??
What purpose does it serve other than to alleviate the carnist fragility of people like you who on the one hand say they care about animal cruelty/welfare and on the other saying they've no issues with animals being unnecessarily slaughtered for food!?????
They'd be much calmer (and alive) if they weren't in the slaughter house to start with

"And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head" - Terry Pratchett

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Done properly, I don't think it is cruelty necessarily.

I know you do, but you seem unable or unwilling to even try to understand why others might not agree.

Sure, but if all your meat is cruelty free your probably much richer then I am.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Is ken okeefe an angry vegan ? Or just talking common sense in a loud voice ?

Sorry for pressing you on this but it's my little brains fault . It can't keep up .

Paulo ???

Oi...Paolo ??

Where did you go all of a sudden ?

Paulo ?

That's odd . Paolo Sanchez was strutting about the board there delivering beat downs to the carnistas left right and centre..like Jackie chan picking a fight in an OAPs home...thwack..thwack..hiyaaaa...

And now hes suddenly buggered off . Like zebedee . How odd ?

Was it something I said Paolo ?

Why'd that ken okeefe video make him go so suddenly quiet ?

Hmmmm

hahahahahhaaaaa!!! What a numpty. This dude has completely lost the plot, like a madly obsessed psycho.
Dude you're an intellectually bankrupt trick pony. I have no idea what you're yakkin' on about and frankly you sound like a bit of an idiot not worth bothering with any more. If you're gonna chat shit, don't @ me.

 

[pengaleng]

real beef

 

[littlebabyjesus]

http://yourveganfallacyis.com/files/fallacy/media/tumblr_n6mw5nykef1tzue9go1_1280.jpg

That little cartoon does quite succinctly illustrate why we talk past one another. For you, if someone wouldn't want you to kill their dog, how can they justify killing other animals?

To take the example of the farm I linked to earlier, which farms in a way that I think is a good way, the animals on that farm are killed when their usefulness is over, or they're killed because that is their usefulness. It is necessarily using the animals instrumentally - the animals are its business. Being killed is a part of the deal the farmer has made for them, without their consent or knowledge, to be alive in the first place, at which point they are replaced by the next generation of cows or pigs or chickens, for whom the same deal applies.

Is this humans lording it over other animals? Clearly it is. Do we have different relationships with different species? Again, yes. And with a pet dog, we enter into a very different deal, as we would with a pet pig.

For you, entering into that deal of death in the first place is morally wrong. For me, it isn't necessarily. For me, how we treat those animals for whom the deal is ultimate death matters.

And with that, perhaps we can talk past one another for a while again. Maybe you can post up another little cartoon.