It's not just about people that we meet irl, though is it? The internet counts too and there are loads of tools that fly into one when veganism is even mentioned, let alone criticised (which rarely happens in reality unless someone's taking the piss or deliberately trolling). This thread, and pretty much every other one on the topic, is ample proof of that.
I regard personal experience and interaction as FAR more reliable and realistic than interactions with people on the internet, imo it's not even close. The internet is a haven for cowardly trolls who are free to say whatever they want under the cover of anonymity, things that they would never say in that way in a face to face situation.
It's ironic that you cite this very thread as your example of vegans behaving badly, lol. The bias is so strong. A proper unbiased audit of posts might give a more accurate and balanced picture. It would appear that whenever the topic is raised, that it is non vegans, who supposedly aren't particularly interested in the topic, but somehow manage to attach themselves like barnacles to the thread and swarm, sabotage and trash the threads with all sorts of rubbish and irrelevant diversions. (says he posting a long-ass reply). The "Who's replied" list for this thread is quite revealing.
I think it would be fantastic if it were possible to have real proper discussion on this topic in this forum for those that are
genuinely interested, but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
I don't know many vegans irl. I know plenty of veggies and pescetarians and they'll all completely sound. Of the handful of vegans that I have actually spent any time with, all but one of them have mentioned their diet and lifestyle choice without being asked.
Yeah, if you say so, or to coin that well known internet phrase "
pics or it didn't happen". The internet is a ripe breeding ground for exaggeration and fabrication.
I have actually met many vegans in real life. I've been to various shows, talks, lectures, presentations and was one of the first members of the
Fresh Network in the late nineties. I met Chrissie Hynde and Benjamin Z in Friends House in Holborn in the early noughties at a vegan festival, and myself and wife used to organise pot-lucks for the Fresh Network South West London area. I have even presented a talk myself at a Marcus Evans "Functional Foods" conference in Amsterdam 2007, it was a bit like a TED talk before TED became a thing. (and I was terrible, lol) I've met bare vegans. As far as I'm concerned that carries a lot more weight than interacting with anonymous and often obnoxious randoms on the internet.
The number of alleged bad experiences reported by non vegans is at odds with my real life interactions which is why I'm assuming that a fair number of them are straight up lies or at best exaggerations and misrepresentations.
I have been in a burger restaurant in Sweden when an AR demo of about 3 people tried to smash the window but it was plate glass. The stick they were using (a hockey stick I think) just kept bouncing off but it made a hell of a noise inside.
Wow, "dat sample size doh", lol. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with these conveniently cherry picked anecdotes, but anyway seeing as you mentioned it, I also have an veggy anecdote of my own based in Stockholm where I worked for a couple of weeks on a project in December 2008. On my first day there I was invited to lunch with the team, they were going to a steakhouse which was apparently very good according to them. When lunchtime came and on the short walk to the eatery, one of the guys asked "you're not vegetarian are you?". "Actually, yes I am" I replied. "Yeah right", he said...and we carried on walking. I'm not sure what made him ask that question, but anyway when it was time to order, I had a plate of chips and an orange juice, and the dude that asked the question earlier, his jaw dropped. "So you really ARE vegetarian!". Apparently he didn't believe me and thought I was joking. He said I didn't look like a vegetarian (whatever one of those is supposed to look like).
While I was there I definitely did not hit any plate glass windows with hockey sticks. I also remember some years previously working in Frankfurt and we had a team dinner in a some kind of meat place where it was literally only meat that was served, no side dishes, no potatoes, no salads, nada...just sizzling meat served on what looked like thick slabs of slate roof tiles. So I didn't eat anything and just had water or a soft drink. I have had so many REAL LIFE experiences and not just internet interactions, too many to mention including an attempt to order a salad in a snooty Paris restaurant during another team dinner and a leaving do at a
Brazillian meat place in Plaza Mayor, Malaga. I won't bore you with any more.
You haven't been abused on this thread and neither has Veganomics. Ddraig has copped a bit because he has masses of form and his posts here have been true to it.
I don't think I ever said that I have been abused, however I agree with
veganomics that there does appear to be a rather unfriendly vibe. I have no idea about the history of beef in the forum between members, but regardless, imo it's a bit hypocritical to make such a big deal out of the use of the word "carnism" claiming that it's emotive, loaded and confrontational when the tone and language used and the relentless goading by those of your persuasion has been rather unfriendly. I don't really want to get into personalities here but I didn't think that anything that ddcraig posted in this thread merited some of the more ugly responses. It would probably be better for him if he was able to keep his cool and not rise to the taunts and sneers because it would appear that that's what the people trying to provoke want because then they can say "see look...proof right there...an angry vegan...told you so."
