Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[8ball]

Pls engage brain before posting as explaining simple things, like the speed and convenience of burgers of all sorts, quickly palls.

They seemed to be attempting a pretty convincing burger, which was good. And interesting that it’s Iceland doing it.

It’s more than just the speed and convenience. And lots of vegans like substitutes of various kinds.

I took “which markets?” as the signal to bow out with that one...

 

[mojo pixy]

Plus baking is all but over.

I've baked two cakes in the last three weeks. I've still got ingredients in the cupboard ffs, flour tastes shit by itself.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Thanks. I'll have a look when I get a chance. Back to my comment on JA. People can be vegan for just one reason. Health, environment, animals, anti capitalism, feminism.

There are people like myself who are vegan for many different reasons. Health, animals, environment, ethics, fellow human health, anti capitalism.

The whole levels of veganism and branding "vegans" as "not being vegans" sits uncomfortable with me.

JA is a top man but it struck me that he was being a little judgemental there. If someone is vegan to reverse their heart disease..awesome. I don't see any positive outcome of telling them they are not vegan according to your own definition. Sure, if they are decked out in fur and leather, i can understand the plant based tag then...

I guess it all boils down to what you believe the defining feature of veganism is. I'm in total agreement with JA on this subject and I don't believe that he was being judgemental at all. I think there's a core foundational principle which many people miss and that is animal rights.

Of course if you don't give a shit about animals and you're only abstaining from animal products for "health reasons" then that does lessen the amount of animal suffering in the world, HOWEVER, the abstention of consuming animal products doesn't in and of itself guarantee health. You can be eating "vegan food" and still be unhealthy, and you can have animal products as part of your diet and be healthy. Equating vegan food with health is a bit of a misnomer, even though vegans DO tend to be healthier. (probably cos they're a bit smarter ) They CAN be healthier than the average Joe, but it's not a given. In my opinion, it is the animal rights which gives veganism its anchor and is it's main strength. Without the animal rights, it's just a fkin fad diet and just as fickle as all the other diets.

So the bottom line is JA pointing this out to people who are unaware is not being judgemental.

 

[8ball]

Without the animal rights, it's just a fkin fad diet and just as fickle as all the other diets.

The “flexitarian” thing is a big driver and cutting down on meat is generally likely to increase demand for certain products.

I’m not a fashion aficionado but was surprised to see a reference to a lot of people wearing fur. I thought real fur had been “out” for quite a while.

So we have flexitarian (not vegan), “plant based” (is that eating vegan for health reasons but not being bothered about wearing leather?), “emo vegan” (no idea what that is), and a couple of levels of purity to contend with (perhaps ideological/political rather than practical).

Plenty going on there.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

The “flexitarian” thing is a big driver and cutting down on meat is generally likely to increase demand for certain products.

I’m not a fashion aficionado but was surprised to see a reference to a lot of people wearing fur. I thought real fur had been “out” for quite a while.

So we have flexitarian (not vegan), “plant based” (is that eating vegan for health reasons but not being bothered about wearing leather?), “emo vegan” (no idea what that is), and a couple of levels of purity to contend with (perhaps ideological/political rather than practical).

Plenty going on there.

imo the labels commonly attached to what people do is a bit of a side issue and is not really that important.

I have no idea what a "flexitarian" really is, it could be that it is more offensive than the dreaded "carnist" word that some folks here have been having kittens over. Without looking it up I'm guessing that it's nothing more than a slightly modified "I eat anything" omnivorous diet with a bit less meat to make the participants feel a bit less guilty about the animals that get slaughtered on their behalf.

Obviously the less unnecessary killing the better, I think most reasonably compassionate people would at least agree on that. (hardcore carnists probably won't care that much) The disagreement comes with how to achieve this reduced amount of killing. There are some meat eating apologists who contend that the vegan position is far too extreme and that it is the fault of vegans that so many people are still eating meat. (vegans keep shoving bits of beef down their throats?) If only vegans would accept that killing animals when we don't need to is perfectly ok then everything will be hunky dory.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Excellent bit of local activism... (free brownies and "cheese")



Slowly but surely it's getting through.

 

[Watermelon Man]

A bit late to this but I see vegan football club Forest Green Rovers have Sea Shepherd logo on the back of their shirts. That's cool.

I've also been listening to a lot of Joey Carbstrong on Irish radio. He's doing really well.

 

[8ball]

imo the labels commonly attached to what people do is a bit of a side issue and is not really that important.

I have no idea what a "flexitarian" really is, it could be that it is more offensive than the dreaded "carnist" word that some folks here have been having kittens over. Without looking it up I'm guessing that it's nothing more than a slightly modified "I eat anything" omnivorous diet with a bit less meat to make the participants feel a bit less guilty about the animals that get slaughtered on their behalf.

The "carnist" term is mostly just embarassing because so many vegans don't understand what the term means and use it to mean "omnivore".
Though the original term is sufficiently illiterate to merit no further mention imo.

Flexitarianism is the trendy new demographic that a lot of new "vegan" products are aimed at. Its a hedge that's trying to leverage new vegans and those looking to reduce meat intake.

I don't think "the vegan position" is terribly extreme (if we take our baseline as not ingesting products from animals which have been killed for that purpose, which is as low as you can set the bar), but it depends which vegans you're talking about. There are a great many vegan positions afaics. I expect this will fracture into an increasing number of established camps as the number of vegans increases, since feeling unsupported has led vegans to huddle together for some time and disguised the normal internal tensions that can develop.

Or maybe their greater empathy will prevail and all vegans will mutually support each other in an era of enlightenment and mutual understanding.

 

[mojo pixy]

Reflecting on the distinction certain polemicists like to make between Plant-Based and truly Vegan, we could conclude that while Angry Vegans probably don't put people off becoming Plant-Based, there is a chance that Angry Vegans do put some people off Being Vegan.

So that would appear to be the end of the thread.
















It won't be, but it would appear to be.

 

[8ball]

Reflecting on the distinction certain polemicists like to make between Plant-Based and truly Vegan, we could conclude that while Angry Vegans probably don't put people off becoming Plant-Based, there is a chance that Angry Vegans do put some people off Being Vegan.

The confusing thing about "plant based" is that the average US diet is often referred to as "meat-based".
Almost no one in the US eats exclusively meat, and on average less than half their protein even comes from meat (edit: it adds up to more than half once you factor in dairy - link also added cos I'm like that).

 

[mojo pixy]

Propaganda terminology, obvs.

 

[8ball]

Propaganda terminology, obvs.

PETA really ramped up that side of the game. I guess they read Politics and The English Language by Orwell.

 

[dylanredefined]

PETA really ramped up that side of the game. I guess they read Politics and The English Language by Orwell.

Ahh the animal lovers who love killing animals.

 

[8ball]

Ahh the animal lovers who love killing animals.

“Freeing” them from this life of torment.

 

[dylanredefined]

Just tried some vegan cheese quite edible.

 

[8ball]

Gary.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Just tried some vegan cheese quite edible.

Depends on the brand, it ranges from Cold-set-vomit to not-too-bad-actually.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Was actually going to ask about vegan cheeses now you remind me, what brand are you on? Anyone know some good ones?

 

[8ball]

Gary.

 

[8ball]

Also, there are some suggestions earlier in this thread if you do a search.

 

[Watermelon Man]

Was actually going to ask about vegan cheeses now you remind me, what brand are you on? Anyone know some good ones?

To be honest, I'm not a massive fan. Violife do some decent processed type cheese that I put in on my vegan burgers. Pretty decent. Some of the stuff I've tasted at veg fests range from rank to half decent.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Noakes knows his stuff about running.

Doesn't have a clue about nutrition.

Mic did a pretty good examination of Professor Noakes' ideas...

 

[8ball]

To be honest, I'm not a massive fan. Violife do some decent processed type cheese that I put in on my vegan burgers. Pretty decent.

That was the one I remember being mentioned the most.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

A bit late to this but I see vegan football club Forest Green Rovers have Sea Shepherd logo on the back of their shirts. That's cool.

RESPECT to FGR and Sea Shepherd doing great work.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

I've also been listening to a lot of Joey Carbstrong on Irish radio. He's doing really well.

Joey is a giant and gets better every time I hear him.

Great reaction to his latest video by BWP...


"...you cannot sit there and be silent any more, it's really important to speak up..."

 

[dylanredefined]

Was actually going to ask about vegan cheeses now you remind me, what brand are you on? Anyone know some good ones?

Tescos own with chilli good enough for chicken burgers

 

[8ball]

Joey is a giant...

He’s certainly taller than I expected.
Is there a story behind the silly name?

 

[8ball]

To be honest, I'm not a massive fan. Violife do some decent processed type cheese that I put in on my vegan burgers. Pretty decent. Some of the stuff I've tasted at veg fests range from rank to half decent.

Actually, meant to ask you what you meant earlier in a reference to someone 'feeling strong' after eating steak.
Found a few references on tinternet to this. It's not something I've experienced personally.

 

[Watermelon Man]

Actually, meant to ask you what you meant earlier in a reference to someone 'feeling strong' after eating steak.
Found a few references on tinternet to this. It's not something I've experienced personally.

Maybe psychological? But I definitely felt stronger initially but then very sluggish for a day or so after.

I kind of get a similar feeling after black beans without the clogged up/sluggish feeling.

 

[8ball]

Maybe psychological? But I definitely felt stronger initially but then very sluggish for a day or so after.

I kind of get a similar feeling after black beans without the clogged up/sluggish feeling.

Maybe psychological, maybe there's some nutrient involved, I guess.
A mate of mine who was a long-term veggie and packed it in said he felt 'turbo charged' after eating red meat. Hard to say what was responsible given a single case. He was only eating small amounts and was trying to get stuff he could square his conscience with.

Another who was into martial arts said on a veggie diet he felt stronger and lighter, whereas after meat he felt stronger, but a little heavier and slower.
I'd suspect how people feel and their actual performance might differ, to be fair.

Re: the black beans, that would suggest to me iron might be responsible, but I wouldn't expect that much effect in the very short term. There's also lots of B12 and folate in black beans, but as a vegan I'd expect you to have those well covered in any case.

I always find hitting a good range of fruit and vegetables, plus some healthy fats, is what makes a big difference if I'm feeling a bit off.
Especially avocado, broccoli, pulses and salmon/mackerel. With apples, sweet potatoes, peppers, carrots and tomatoes not far behind.