Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[editor]

"Err"

It was a response to the good news that a bunch of high st chains are selling vegan food for January. My point is, even if they do that, they're still high st chains. I'm not sure why you want me to answer for something I never posted. All Bar One etc can sell as much vegan food as they like, they're still shit (and so is their vegan food, no doubt) and their jumping on this trend doesn't make them one iota less shit.

I don't think you'll find anyone disagreeing with that, but surely you'll agree that it IS a good thing for mainstream bars and restaurants to be offering more non-meat alternatives? Aside from the hideous cruelty and ethical issues, meat consumption has to be reduced because it's playing a major part in destroying the environment.

 

[mojo pixy]

I don't think you'll find anyone disagreeing with that, but surely you'll agree that it IS a good thing for mainstream bars and restaurants to be offering more non-meat alternatives? Aside from the hideous cruelty and ethical issues, meat consumption has to be reduced because it's playing a major part in destroying the environment.

I think it's irrelevant. Even if these companies sold only vegan food their mere existence is part of a bigger problem. Nobody in their right mind should be eating anything at All Bar One, or drinking there either. THAT would be a boycott.

So what if you can't be vegan and eat the shite they sell on the hight st? That's a good thing, and for me was always part of the point. It's about changing the way we eat, not just adding to the menu.

Anyway. Yay to high st vegans. It's all for the cause, right? Right.

 

[editor]

I think it's irrelevant. Even if these companies sold only vegan food their mere existence is part of a bigger problem. Nobody in their right mind should be eating anything at All Bar One, or drinking there either. THAT would be a boycott.

So what if you can't be vegan and eat the shite they sell on the hight st? That's a good thing, and for me was always part of the point. It's about changing the way we eat, not just adding to the menu.

And part of that process is places now offering vegan choices and increasing demand. Whether you like the particular restaurant or not is irrelevant - people will still their money there. What is important that vegan food moves into the mainstream and is no longer seen as food for cranks and weirdos. And the more people eating non-meat meals, the better, full stop.

 

[mojo pixy]

Vegan food is already mainstream; we in the UK buy and consume thousands of tonnes of hummous (and other vegan preparations) every year.
What's not mainstream is strict veganism.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I think it's irrelevant. Even if these companies sold only vegan food their mere existence is part of a bigger problem. Nobody in their right mind should be eating anything at All Bar One, or drinking there either. THAT would be a boycott.

So what if you can't be vegan and eat the shite they sell on the hight st? That's a good thing, and for me was always part of the point. It's about changing the way we eat, not just adding to the menu.

Anyway. Yay to high st vegans. It's all for the cause, right? Right.

"So what if you can't be vegan" - so you don't see anything wrong with paying to have male chicks ground up alive, cows' babies ripped away from them shortly after birth and farm animals brutally killed in industrial slaughterhouses but you draw the line at a having a drink in All Bar One?

 

[lazythursday]

"Err"

It was a response to the good news that a bunch of high st chains are selling vegan food for January. My point is, even if they do that, they're still high st chains. I'm not sure why you want me to answer for something I never posted. All Bar One etc can sell as much vegan food as they like, they're still shit (and so is their vegan food, no doubt) and their jumping on this trend doesn't make them one iota less shit.

I think it's irrelevant. Even if these companies sold only vegan food their mere existence is part of a bigger problem. Nobody in their right mind should be eating anything at All Bar One, or drinking there either. THAT would be a boycott.

So what if you can't be vegan and eat the shite they sell on the hight st? That's a good thing, and for me was always part of the point. It's about changing the way we eat, not just adding to the menu.

Anyway. Yay to high st vegans. It's all for the cause, right? Right.

I'm not a fan of All Bar One but what's your general beef with chains? Some are better than others, in terms of food quality. I don't for a minute believe that the average independent artisan outlet treats their staff a lot better. And certainly if you have a food allergy or other dietary requirement the chains generally have well-labelled menus and standardised procedures for ingredient handling etc whereas plenty of independent cafes / restaurants simply don't understand or give a fuck, in my experience.

 

[bellaozzydog]

Just dropped into my parents After spending two years telling me I was going to make myself ill and a vegan diet wasn't natural my old man has just started calling me out for not being a proper vegan and having no self discipline...

He eats pasties and pork pies. I can't fucking win I think he must read urban

My local veggie/vegan deli-store is pretty amazing and well worth a visit but the bastards plonk at least 1/3 on the price on everything, including stuff you can get round the corner in Sainsbury's and Waitrose

In response to vegan food being healthy, there is a local vegan takeaway delivery service and everything on the menu is utterly filthy in the best unhealthy way. You almost have to be drunk to eat it (kebab stylee) wonderful.


Sorry just a brain fart on the thread, carry on

 

[UnderOpenSky]

My local veggie/vegan deli-store is pretty amazing and well worth a visit but the bastards plonk at least 1/3 on the price on everything, including stuff you can get round the corner in Sainsbury's and Waitrose

TBF to them it's quite hard to compete with big supermarkets on price.

 

[mojo pixy]

"So what if you can't be vegan" - so you don't see anything wrong with paying to have male chicks ground up alive, cows' babies ripped away from them shortly after birth and farm animals brutally killed in industrial slaughterhouses but you draw the line at a having a drink in All Bar One?

So what if you can't be vegan and eat the shite they sell on the high st?

It would help with understanding if you didn't break the sentence in half.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

It would help with understanding if you didn't break the sentence in half.

Ah sorry, my apologies for misinterpreting you. (I thought you were saying that it would be better to eat an omnivorous diet from non-high street places than eating a vegan diet that includes some meals in high street restaurants).

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm not a fan of All Bar One but what's your general beef with chains? Some are better than others, in terms of food quality. I don't for a minute believe that the average independent artisan outlet treats their staff a lot better. And certainly if you have a food allergy or other dietary requirement the chains generally have well-labelled menus and standardised procedures for ingredient handling etc whereas plenty of independent cafes / restaurants simply don't understand or give a fuck, in my experience.

I'm not really concerned with food standards because that's an issue which can affect any food outlet no matter what they do. It's a question of socioeconomics, which is probably best not gone into here in detail. I try to avoid using any high st shop, I try as much as possible to use independents, luckily I live in a large city with plenty of those. I can't singlehandedly destroy capitalism but I can choose what to support and whether they sell meat only comes into it when I decide whether or not to buy something from a place that mainly sells meat.

Say Burger King. They sell several veggie items (don't know about vegan) and I have eaten there in the past. But I don't, because it's Burger King and I heartily disapprove of that kind of business, model, structure and the society that makes it exist as it does. Those companies trying to attract new customers by ''supporting veganuary'' are of that sort. I don't use them, ever, anti-capitalist killjoy that I am, and IMO nobody should. But the fact they sell meat is to me less of an issue than the fact they are (kinda) a symptom of Everything Bad In The World.

More vegan food around? Good. But there are bigger issues around those companies and giving them promotion and applause for doing what they should have been doing anyway is a big distraction from the fact they should all be boycotted full stop.

 

[lazythursday]

I'm not really concerned with food standards because that's an issue which can affect any food outlet no matter what they do. It's a question of socioeconomics, which is probably best not gone into here in detail. I try to avoid using any high st shop, I try as much as possible to use independents, luckily I live in a large city with plenty of those. I can't singlehandedly destroy capitalism but I can choose what to support and whether they sell meat only comes into it when I decide whether or not to buy something from a place that mainly sells meat.

Say Burger King. They sell several veggie items (don't know about vegan) and I have eaten there in the past. But I don't, because it's Burger King and I heartily disapprove of that kind of business, model, structure and the society that makes it exist as it does. Those companies trying to attract new customers by ''supporting veganuary'' are of that sort. I don't use them, ever, anti-capitalist killjoy that I am, and IMO nobody should. But the fact they sell meat is to me less of an issue than the fact they are (kinda) a symptom of Everything Bad In The World.

More vegan food around? Good. But there are bigger issues around those companies and giving them promotion and applause for doing what they should have been doing anyway is a big distraction from the fact they should all be boycotted full stop.

Thanks. I used to broadly think and act the same way but I've become a bit disillusioned that it's really that achieving that much to only use independents. They're still capitalists, after all. But I'd draw the line well before Burger King.

 

[mojo pixy]

Thanks. I used to broadly think and act the same way but I've become a bit disillusioned that it's really that achieving that much to only use independents. They're still capitalists, after all.

I know, that's what I mean, I can't take down the whole system by myself. I try to support people who are more likely to fail if I don't, maybe. It'd take a lot more lost customers to make Sainsbury's fail, than it would to make my local greengrocer fail. Something like that anyway.

But I'd draw the line well before Burger King.

Yeah fair enough

 

[mojo pixy]

It's all a tricky balancing act, once ethics come into diet.

Take milk. You want cows to have the best lives, if you drink it, so you buy nice organic milk. That means supporting a supermarket, because a lot of independent shops don't stock organic or free-range milk.

Getting local milk these days that hasn't already been shipped to some central processing facility and back, is nigh-on impossible unless you actually live on a farm.

So you decide to cut it out altogether and move into substitutes. Then you're into a whole new mess of brands and companies, a whole new conception of food miles, with plantations and issues with cheap / forced labour in distant lands, deforestation and monoculturisation.

Somewhere between all this (and taste prefences, let's remember) you have to find a solution that fits your own conscience and budget.

And that's just milk.

 

[editor]

Vegan food is already mainstream; we in the UK buy and consume thousands of tonnes of hummous (and other vegan preparations) every year.

It's really not. It's not uncommon to see precisely vegan alternatives offered in restaurants/bars/pubs/cafes, and when there is something, it's incredibly rare to see more than one option on the menu.

It's nowhere near mainstream yet but if crappy bars like All Bar One start offering vegan menus, that's all for the good.

 

[editor]

I'm not really concerned with food standards because that's an issue which can affect any food outlet no matter what they do. It's a question of socioeconomics, which is probably best not gone into here in detail. I try to avoid using any high st shop, I try as much as possible to use independents, luckily I live in a large city with plenty of those. I can't singlehandedly destroy capitalism but I can choose what to support and whether they sell meat only comes into it when I decide whether or not to buy something from a place that mainly sells meat.

Say Burger King. They sell several veggie items (don't know about vegan) and I have eaten there in the past. But I don't, because it's Burger King and I heartily disapprove of that kind of business, model, structure and the society that makes it exist as it does. Those companies trying to attract new customers by ''supporting veganuary'' are of that sort. I don't use them, ever, anti-capitalist killjoy that I am, and IMO nobody should. But the fact they sell meat is to me less of an issue than the fact they are (kinda) a symptom of Everything Bad In The World.

More vegan food around? Good. But there are bigger issues around those companies and giving them promotion and applause for doing what they should have been doing anyway is a big distraction from the fact they should all be boycotted full stop.

So you think it would be better if the big chain burger bars - which kids are under incredible peer pressure to go along to because everyone else does - should continue to offer zero vegan options, and thus make it even harder for kids who are interested in pursuing a vegan diet? You think that's the best way forward, yes?

 

[mojo pixy]

So you think it would be better if the big chain burger bars - which kids are under incredible peer pressure to go along to because everyone else does - should continue to offer zero vegan options, and thus make it even harder for kids who are interested in pursuing a vegan diet? You think that's the best way forward, yes?

They all already offer veggie options, as I myself have mentioned.

EtA, I still maintain vegetarian and vegan food is completely mainstream and this has been increasing for years. Every brand you can name does veggie versions of something, as I said it's strict veganism that's not mainstream. Vegetarian and vegan food is all over the place .. and we really do consume fuckloads of hummous.

 

[editor]

They all already offer veggie options, as I myself have mentioned.

Burger King can't guarantee any vegan food (except on promotions):

However, our products may not be appropriate for a vegan diet as we cannot guarantee a 100% vegan-approved preparation.”

You can't get a McD vegan burger either, and in many other chains you're left with the option of asking them to take stuff away from sandwiches etc to make them vegan.

Vegan options are still generally pitifully limited (if any) and far, far from being 'mainstream.'

Vegan Friendly Food Chains UK • Vegan Womble

 

[mojo pixy]

It's changing though, as we're seeing. That is a good thing IMO, in case you missed where I said that before.

The question is, for me, Why the fuck would a strict vegan want to eat at (say) Burger King anyway? They sell vegetarian food at least. If ethics are that important they won't stretch to the milk in a bun or a bit of gacky cheese (which can be taken out anyway) then there's a lot else about a company like BK that ought to be considered IMO, above and beyond the massive body count required to keep it going.

I'm not going to repeat previous posts, they're there already.

EtA, or critique consumer capitalism vis-a-vis fast food and chain brands' / their parent multinationals' business practices in full. Sorry about that.

 

[Bird of prey]

I'm a temporary vegan, doing it for January (have also quit the booze). Loving the food, but some of the posts on the FB Veganuary page are batshit crazy.

 

[Ralph Llama]

IMO -(dont ban me) the idea that you can change the society by what product range you buy is sumfink we saw through in the 90`s innit . Although it is possibe to make waves on xbox live if your avata looks rad ...
*runs

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm a temporary vegan, doing it for January (have also quit the booze). Loving the food, but some of the posts on the FB Veganuary page are batshit crazy.

Can't find anything really batshit there, but there sure are a lot of posts containing bawwww baybee animaws and ads promoting Starbucks, Pret a Manger etc.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

The Three Estates in Kings Norton in Birmingham are not served by a single supermarket - it’s been a source of huge frustration for those living there and has caused problems for the kids and schools who know they have to promote healthy eating but feel its daft when for a lot of their kids it’s not doable for their families.

I’m acutely aware that vegan or not, the choices are hard and limited, my issue with your post was that it read to me very condescending towards parents, as though they don’t care. Perhaps some don’t, a lot do though but structural difficulties make it hard. Shitting on people already struggling isn’t fair.

tbh, before you mentioned it I had never heard of the term "food desert" before and I'm not even sure that they really exist. Even if for argument sake, there are areas where there are no supermarkets and they are needed, then it's up to the locals in that area along with their political representatives and local business people to resolve the issue, just as they would need to for any "public transport deserts" that might exist in areas of need. So I don't accept your rather dramatic assertion I am shitting on struggling people by suggesting that it's no more difficult for a low income vegan to feed themselves than it would be for a low income meat eater.

 

[seeformiles]

As a lapsed veggie (Mrs SFM is too much a committed carnivore) who returns to the fold about 4 days of the week, my vegan friends are certainly not angry but more encouraging than anything else. If they’re guilty of anything it’s overstating the quality of some vegan substitutes. My main stumbling block in going the full Vegan is a love of cheese. I’ve tried a lot of what my friends have termed “yummy vegan cheese” but I’ve yet to find any that comes even vaguely close to the taste and texture of the real thing. Once that’s sorted, I’m in .

 

[ddraig]

tbh, before you mentioned it I had never heard of the term "food desert" before and I'm not even sure that they really exist. Even if for argument sake, there are areas where there are no supermarkets and they are needed, then it's up to the locals in that area along with their political representatives and local business people to resolve the issue, just as they would need to for any "public transport deserts" that might exist in areas of need. So I don't accept your rather dramatic assertion I am shitting on struggling people by suggesting that it's no more difficult for a low income vegan to feed themselves than it would be for a low income meat eater.

There are food deserts, it's a fact, just because you hadn't heard of them
Guess you've never lived anywhere rural, Or even on edges of some towns

 

[8ball]

Surely all deserts are food deserts.

 

[mojo pixy]

It probably depends on how much you like eating snake...

 

[hash tag]

Police have a FEB; vegans are furious. really?
Vegans furious after police share cooked breakfast photo to support farmers

 

[8ball]

Police have a FEB; vegans are furious. really?
Vegans furious after police share cooked breakfast photo to support farmers

 

[ddraig]

Police have a FEB; vegans are furious. really?
Vegans furious after police share cooked breakfast photo to support farmers

omg!!! 3 people responded to a tweet!! ban veganism now

it is bollocks saying "the only way to start the day" obviously and why are they having a breakfast to support farmers? do they do that with other groups
most police tweets are bollocks tho

e2a the tweets in opposition are actually about the double standards of a cow getting shot with a crossbow

and lovely typical comments as per usual! sigh