brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Hodgson
Crystal Palace 21/22 Season: Vieira in the Area
- Thread starter Maggot
- Start date
BCBlues
Lend us a Twenner
Pardew
philosophical
Well-Known Member
What about Zaha?
There's one, any others from the productive academy?
There's one, any others from the productive academy?
AverageJoe
...
Mitchell and Wan Bissaka spring to mind.
AverageJoe
...
This is quite an interesting article.
trainingground.guru
Training Ground Guru | Ryan Baldi: How Palace went from EPPP sceptics to flagbearers
CRYSTAL PALACE went from vocal critics to enthusiastic adopters of the Elite Player Performance Plan. Ryan Baldi was present for part of this journey for his book 'The Dream Factory' and explains what happened.
trainingground.guru
alsoknownas
some bloke
Well there were 3 of them in our matchday squad this weekend (2 got playing time), and a further 2 who are part of the wider squad and have played recently, so I'm not sure what kind of snidey point you're trying to make.
alsoknownas
some bloke
Our academy is very much a work in progress, with a lot of the expansion and investment being relatively recent, but the criteria you've chosen is awful 
. Looking at this weekend's Premier League games, with the exception of the top 6, only one team (our opponents Southampton) included more qualifying academy players in their matchday squad than Palace 
. (I had to google that obviously)
. Looking at this weekend's Premier League games, with the exception of the top 6, only one team (our opponents Southampton) included more qualifying academy players in their matchday squad than Palace . (I had to google that obviously)
hash tag
Books, not bombs
Steve Kember started as an apprentice, became a much respected player, had an indifferent spell as manager and now still scouting for the club.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
In the old days John Cartwright, and I believe Dario Gradi were involved, and players such as Vince Hillaire would emerge from time to time, a similar kind of ratio to other clubs.
However there doesn't seem to be that many bangs for a buck in recent years compared to other clubs, ironically Crewe being one of them.
There is some way to go before there can be any claim that Crystal Palace player development is even a match for a much poorer club like Milton Keynes.
However there doesn't seem to be that many bangs for a buck in recent years compared to other clubs, ironically Crewe being one of them.
There is some way to go before there can be any claim that Crystal Palace player development is even a match for a much poorer club like Milton Keynes.
alsoknownas
some bloke
The main point is that I have been very much enjoying watching the product of our academy in recent times.
If fans of Crewe and MK Dons (Franchise Inc.) are similarly enjoying theirs, well I'm very happy for them.
If fans of Crewe and MK Dons (Franchise Inc.) are similarly enjoying theirs, well I'm very happy for them.
bromley
...isn't as good as Lewisham.
Is that why you now go to games dressed as an eagle?
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I'm pretty sure that "On the Ball City" at Norwich has that prize but it's not really that important I guess.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
The nicknames, the strip, the badge Charlton have run through all of these, it's all been done on here before with Little Bromley whining away in exactly the same way as he is here, getting corrected just the same way. He really needs some new material.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
I suppose it got a response from me because of the really quite ridiculous attempt by some to suggest that Crystal Palace are the original football club.
If history is going to be invoked, then it is no surprise if that history is examined.
I get equally annoyed by Arsenal boasting about their lengthy stay in the top flight when they didn't get promoted to it because of sporting achievement.
The current Crystal Palace are a product of some of the modern tropes people place such great store by, like Love Island, or MacDonalds, or the X-factor, possibly good for a quick thrill, but Crystal Palace have some way to go to achieve depth and gravitas in the footballing constellation.
Personally I think they should embrace what they have become now, and certainly not invoke some kind of historical falsehoods.
I also think that Selhurst Park is a rubbish place that one only goes to under sufferance or loyalty.
Spend all that Sky money on the stadium, it will last longer for the fans than temporary or cyclical success.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I'm proud of that one. What's wrong with being a founder member of Div 4? Most of our history - or nearly - was in the Southern League, is that bad too?
You have a fine line in ranting but it's all a bit irrational really - Falmer is one of the most plasticky stadiums in the country isn't it? Built splat in the middle of an AONB on the edge of a National Park, miles out of Brighton, with terrible transport it only got planning permission because Prescott thought that granting it would win Labour an MP or two in Brighton but still lost to the Greens in 2010 anyway.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
We've got common ground there then, I hold that Arsenal have never actually won a first div/tier 1 title and never will until they purge their kharma by getting relegated and then winning promotion properly. Got quite a bit of flak when I applied that rule to a pub quiz I was hosting but we have to deal with some discomfort when confronting the unpleasant truths about our history.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
There's some truth in this of course but the Arfur generates a noise that's rare in football these days and the place has character unlike most grounds now, why the ultras wanted to be at the Holmesdale end escapes me, this ground is built for a half-way line massive - but they are out of fashion. But yeah large parts are a dump, very much a place for the home fans to love and everyone else to hate, another reason we love it I guess.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Do you really want to compare Falmer with Selhurst Park?
I have been to both and know which I prefer.
My favourite ground ever has now sadly gone, and that was the old Highbury.
If you listed London stadia in order of preference (not as a fan) which ones would be below Selhurst park?
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Great you prefer Falmer. I prefer Sehurst - my point wasn't that you liked Selhurst, my point was that you were sneering at plastic and then lauding Falmer, a shrine to plastic with all the "authenticity" of an out-of-town retail shed, not surprising really as that's basically waht it is.
Yes old Highbury was a great ground but the fans were always pretty apathetic, if I could travel back in time to remind myself of what we've lost I'd take old WHL or Upton Park - and there'd be a few others before I got to Highbury.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
At Falmer you can see the action, and the food is OK.
The reason Brighton ended up there was because they were shafted, and were at Gillingham and the Withdean as the Goldstone was destroyed.
What choice did they have in those circumstances?
In terms of 'new' stadia there are many worse. Indeed it was by choice that Colchester moved to probably the worst stadium in the south, and it was by choice that Millwall relinquished their best asset. I don't see what choices Brighton had, and what you call plastic, others would call modern.
I agree about WHL, and have yet to visit the new ground there, but the Upton Park saga is simply nasty. Loyal West Ham fans themselves shafted by the porn barons who moved them to a place you and I pay for!
West Ham United used to be a club with tradition and respect, now in my eyes their standing is lower than Crystal Palace whatever results and league positions might suggest.
One club that seems to be doing it right by their fans is Fulham, but it has cost them a lot of money
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
More seriously I know that Brighton had no choice but I'd have taken the Goldstone over the Amex any day of the week and I guess most weed would too, isn't that true for most fans? We liked it when our grounds were ours, not identikit B&Q-a-likes.
Both ends at Selhurst are pretty bad, but luckily for me and my luddite tendencies they always were so the redeveloped ends are no change really. But the Arfur is a great stand (if you don't have a lump of metal between you and a goal) and the Main stand is one of the last Archibald Leitch stands left (he did the shelf at Tottenham, Ibrox etc etc) so although it's crap it's definitely heritage crap. I don't really get why you hate it all so much but the more you do, the happier I am really.
alsoknownas
some bloke
If you recall - the away fans used to be pushed right up against the holmesdale in the Arfur itself, which used to create a bonkers atmosphere (and some ridiculous scenes - Brum fancy dress riot springs to mind) until the police intervened to relocate the away fans. Presumably that's why HF originated from that end.
Maggot
The Cake of Liberty
When deciding which team to support, depth and gravitas are major considerations.
Don't you just love it when supporters of other teams, who visit once a year at most, tell home fans to get a new stadium, as if it was up to us anyway.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I'm not sure what "depth and gravitas" even means in the context of being a supporter of club x or y but I am pretty sure I'm not that bothered about having it. Palace historically probably have been a bit kitsch and silly, nothing wrong with that unless you're a pompous git.I go for a laugh not because I'm looking for depth and gravitas, and sometimes I'm surprised and get actually moved to emotions I wasn't expecting.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
Yes I remember, it always seems daft to me to put away fans in the Arfur - stick them up the Sainsbury's end and then forcibly relocate the HF to the half way line, it'd be waaay better. That year the Holmesdale was being rebuilt the Arfur rocked.
bromley
...isn't as good as Lewisham.
Away fans back then were in the corner part of the Homesdale.
I only have the Olympic stadium below selhurst in London. Funny enough only the Holmesdale is the only stand with character. Not upgrading a ground doesn't mean it has character.
I don't think the ultras will like the lack of visibility in the half hour wait and the Sainsburys end only has 2k so not big enough for away fans.
I love how finding some stuff from the 1920s is some kind of gotcha. Massively difference to a wholesale change in the 1970s when football had started to become tribal. Only one season in our existence we didn't play in red and white, look at the uproar from Cardiff when their owner wanted to change the home strip. Only one set of fans has ever lapped that up.
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In terms of upgrading, changing or moving away from your ground - be careful what you wish for and when you wish for it! I’m at ST holder at Spurs and am still not won over by the new ground - yes it may win plenty of architecture awards (I’m sure many of you will point out the only silverware in Tottenham’s trophy cabinet) but it doesn’t yet feel like home.
The timing was bad too. We’d just gone a season (2016-17) unbeaten at home (winning 17 out if 19 and drawing 2), finishing 2nd in the league. The momentum was v much with Poch’s Spurs when 2+ years of Wembley took the wind out of our sails. Obvs since the moving in the Pandemic also fucked us.
On Palace - despite being Spurs - I’m a south east Londoner who has spent so much time in and around CPFC that it feels strange now that I’m not a fan. I played in Palace’s youth team (under Alan Smith) with my good mate at the time, Dean Gordon. A few years later I was was back as the bar manager (obvs didn’t quite have the football career I’d dreamt of!).
I worked in the stadium during the redevelopment of the Holmesdale while Ron Noades was in charge. The plan was always to redevelop the whole ground in line with the HS but events (relegation) and Noades I suppose got in the way. I always found the Sainsbury’s End an embarrassment but it’s not the fault of fans…
I must admit to a slightly snooty attitude towards Palace for many years (along the lines of laughing about the stripy Nigel’s from Purley or Redhill). To be honest though, that just highlighted my snobbery. I like Palace, though I’m not sold on the contrived theatrics of the HF but the alternative is the anodyne soullessness of the Emirates or dare I say it, new-WHL then I’d take that. I like Palace’s engagement with the community and visible pride in being south London.
The timing was bad too. We’d just gone a season (2016-17) unbeaten at home (winning 17 out if 19 and drawing 2), finishing 2nd in the league. The momentum was v much with Poch’s Spurs when 2+ years of Wembley took the wind out of our sails. Obvs since the moving in the Pandemic also fucked us.
On Palace - despite being Spurs - I’m a south east Londoner who has spent so much time in and around CPFC that it feels strange now that I’m not a fan. I played in Palace’s youth team (under Alan Smith) with my good mate at the time, Dean Gordon. A few years later I was was back as the bar manager (obvs didn’t quite have the football career I’d dreamt of!).
I worked in the stadium during the redevelopment of the Holmesdale while Ron Noades was in charge. The plan was always to redevelop the whole ground in line with the HS but events (relegation) and Noades I suppose got in the way. I always found the Sainsbury’s End an embarrassment but it’s not the fault of fans…
I must admit to a slightly snooty attitude towards Palace for many years (along the lines of laughing about the stripy Nigel’s from Purley or Redhill). To be honest though, that just highlighted my snobbery. I like Palace, though I’m not sold on the contrived theatrics of the HF but the alternative is the anodyne soullessness of the Emirates or dare I say it, new-WHL then I’d take that. I like Palace’s engagement with the community and visible pride in being south London.
alsoknownas
some bloke
I'm the same in reverse having grown up in Hackney with really only Gooner and Spurs mates (plus the occasional Orient fan), but with family ties (obligations
) to Palace.I have to say I was really impressed with the new Spurs ground. I dislike the modern look-a-like stadiums, but even worse are the mega lifeless corporate malls like The Emirates and new Wembley. I actually genuinely feel sorry for Arsenal fans for what they have lost. They are a 'watch on the telly' entertainment item for most of their working class following now, where they used to be at the heart of the community (in a complex manner that always included a large element of middle class patronage too). An annual trip to the stadium (if they're lucky) is only going to feel like some kind of IKEA customer experience at best compared to the swirling terrace days of Highbury.
The Spurs ground is the first I've been too that manages to mix the scale and ambition of the mega projects with a modicum of architectural sensitivity to the game and culture it serves. It's relatively atmospheric and characterful and feels like a football ground.
