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CNN Charlie Sheen poll result

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fela fan said:
(and all fucking polls are unscientific).
I'm afraid that's just not the case fela.

I used to work in the survey business. There are indeed "scientific" ways to go about surveying that can and do produce remarkably accurate results.

AND, your surveyor can also tell you exactly the degree to which those results will be replicated by conducting the same study and, hence, the level to which those results are to be trusted as a true reflection of the opinions of the "population" as a whole.

It involves careful "sampling" of the "population" (which could be a "representative" sample of the whole population aged between 15 and 64, for example, or a "representative" sample another "population", say Han Chinese women, living in Hong Kong, aged 18 - 35, who have purchased headache pills in the last six months.

Sampling is a precise science which takes into account population distribution by a wide variety of factors and often involves identifying and selecting various "data points" (geographical locations,) to ensure that a representative sample is surveyed.

Sample sizes are important, but usually, a sample of n = 900 is large enough (if properly selected,) to provide a representative sample that will produce results at a certain "confidence" level (usually 95%).

The questionnaire must be very carefully designed and the questions, and their phrasing, are critical (for example, a question about opinions on "abortion" will elicit a different response from the same group of people as the same question about "termination" will).

The selection, phrasing and order of the questions is, of course, an art and a science, but there're enough academic books out there devoted solely to the subject of questionnaire design, length, phrasing, ordering, etc. to ensure that anyone worth their salt sticks within certain existing "rules" and conventions. Questionnaire design also (should) takes into account how comparisons will be made with previous surveys to ensure that apples and apples or oranges and oranges are involved - matching fruit an' all that.

The "timing" of the survey is critical too and many variables are factored in to ensure consistency (is it a major holiday period for example, when certain "types" of peeps will be away and would be missed by the survey: has there been any recent "event" that could influence peeps responses: and so on). All of these things are accounted for and "controlled" for as tightly as possible.

Once all is ready, a "field test" is conducted and analysed to ensure that any unforseen problems with the questionnaire are identified and corrected and the survey is then conducted in its entirity.

Once the raw data is back, some of the respondents are contacted again (usually 20%) to ensure that the data has "integrity" (that the fieldworkers are not just sitting and filling in the forms themselves.

Once the data integrity is confirmed, the data is entered into a computer and then "logic checked" to ensure consistency (has any respondent contradicted themselves by answering similar questions with wildly different answers, for example).

If any problems are detected, these are fixed and additional respondents may be surveyed to ensure the required sample size is reached.

Once this is all done, the data can be "manipulated" to identify the results we are seeking to discover. Data manipulation can be as simple as cross referencing tables (to see if peeps who eat beef also eat chicken, or under 25 y/o women buy more cosmetics than over 65 y/o women, for example,) or can be excruciatingly complex involving running any number of statistical analyses, such as multiple regression analysis, corellation analysis, structural equation modelling, etc. depending upon what it is you're interested in discovering.

Once the data has been analysed and "milked" for as much info' as possible, the results are then "interpreted" and presented first in a "topline" presentation and then in a later detailed report. Interpretation of data is, once again, an art and a science and a skilled and experienced researcher will be able to provide much added value and insight through drawing upon their expertise and experience.


Assuming that the surveyor has the requisite knowledge and expertise in research design and the survey is carried out properly in every aspect (sampling, questionnaire design, fieldwork, back-checks, data entry, data analysis and reporting) then surveying is a truly scientific and extremely accurate predictor.

As an example. A properly conducted survey with a relatively small sample size (say n = 900,) can predict future results, within certain limits (margin of error,) at a confidence level of 95%.

So, what we can say is that if a "random" sample of all UK registered voters is surveyed, we can be 95% confident that replicating the same study will produce exactly the same result within a certain "margin of error" (usually somewhere between 2% and 5%).

We can predict with 95% certainty that ANY random sample of UK registered voters will give the same results to within say 3%. This study can be replicated again and again and again and (unless the world has changed - which again can be measured and accounted for,) we are statistically certain that if this study is conducted randomly 100 times, that 95 times out of a hundred the results will be the same (within + or - 3%).

And THAT means that if you surveyed EVERY registered voter in the UK you can be 95% certain that the results will be exactly the same as your "sampled" survey produced (within a margin of error of + or - 3%).

Most "commercial" surveys (y'know, the stuff to find out what washing powder people prefer, or whatever,) are conducted at the 95% confidence level and have a margin of error of plus or minus 3%.

Some surveys (long term, in-depth studies for medical reasons, etc.) can squeeze the confidence level up to 98% or higher and squezze the margin of error down to 2% or lower.


BTW fela, this isn't really aimed (only) at you. There've always been alot of people on these boards dispariging surveys, but actually, conducted "scientifically", a survey of a "representatve sample" of the "population" will always produce exceedingly accurate results, within some pretty fine tolerances.

As far as surveys go, the evidence is clear - properly conducted, they work and are remarkably accurate.

It is, of course, important that such surveys are conducted "transparently" and that the entire methodology and process is open to question - from the sampling to the questionnaire design, fieldwork, data entry, analysis, etc, etc. 'Tis the way of science. The results may be challenged, but the numbers will speak for themsleves and if the survey has been properly conducted, the results will stand, will be beyond reproach AND will be replicable.


(N.B. I am, of course, talking about "quantitative" research here - surveying, as opposed to "qualitative" research [focus groups, in-depth one-on-one interviews, etc.], which, although "scientific" is, by definition, not as accurate as surveys. Qualitative research is often used after a quantitative study to "add flesh to the bones" of the numbers, to provide deeper insights and to explore in-depth any particular issues raised by the quantitative study or any other areas of interest revealed in the survey.)



So there!

:p

:)

Woof
 
I'm always happy to be proved wrong jessie. I did not know a survey could be rigorously set up and conducted.

I did know that politicians and marketing companies put great store by them.

I also knew that an internet survey is less obviously trustworthy due to the more random nature of it.

But, what are your comments re the validity of this CNN internet poll? Does the huge number agreeing make up for the lack of scientific basis of it?
 
fela fan said:
But, what are your comments re the validity of this CNN internet poll? Does the huge number agreeing make up for the lack of scientific basis of it?
No!

The survey is only representative of the people it surveyed.

It is not representative of anything other than those who participated it is not "scientific".

That said, it IS interesting, and warrants further research.





fela fan said:
"The Statement supports an August 31st Zogby poll that found nearly 50% of New Yorkers believe the government had foreknowledge and "consciously failed to act," with 66% wanting a new 9/11 investigation."
This is, perhaps, one example of such further research.

I don't know Zogby's reputation and I'd have to check the methodology and process, of course, but if this was a "representative" survey of "New Yorkers", properly conducted, then you can safely assume that if ALL New Yorkers" were surveyed, the results would be (pretty much) the same.

:)

Woof
 
Jessiedog said:
This is, perhaps, one example of such further research.

I don't know Zogby's reputation and I'd have to check the methodology and process, of course, but if this was a "representative" survey of "New Yorkers", properly conducted, then you can safely assume that if ALL New Yorkers" were surveyed, the results would be (pretty much) the same.

:)

Woof

And that was at the dog end of 2004. I'd say the political and psychological climate in the US has changed quite some bit since then...

I believe it only a matter of time before the american (and british) media have to catch up with the public and start doing some proper investigating and questioning...

Could it be that the influence of the internet has allowed people to shape public discourse, rather than following what the media gives out to us??
 
in other news 74% of people thought he hadn't made a good movie since 'Hot Shots' and 81% preferred Michael J Fox in 'Spin City'..
 
Bonfirelight said:
in other news 74% of people thought he hadn't made a good movie since 'Hot Shots' and 81% preferred Michael J Fox in 'Spin City'..

wrong thread, i think you need general or something...
 
fela fan said:
wrong thread, i think you need general or something...

Politics, protest and current affairs > world politics/current affairs

Peoples opinion on charlie sheens claims.

so, perhaps, do you?
 
Bonfirelight said:
Politics, protest and current affairs > world politics/current affairs

Peoples opinion on charlie sheens claims.

so, perhaps, do you?

You appear to have retitled this thread. Are you revising history as it happens?!

This thread is: "CNN Charlie Sheen poll result"

That would appear to be only talking about one specific poll.

Now then mate, move long, over to general...!
 
fela fan said:
You appear to have retitled this thread. Are you revising history as it happens?!

This thread is: "CNN Charlie Sheen poll result"

That would appear to be only talking about one specific poll.

Now then mate, move long, over to general...!

:confused: not that i want to derail or anything over a tounge in cheek comment, but the CNN poll is, or is it not, to gauge peoples opinion on Charlie Sheens (the actor) claims about a government cover up?

Hence this thread is about peoples opinion on charlie sheens (the actor)claims.

which is about as worthy of Politics and Protest as Bonos views on Newcastle Uniteds recent defensive frailties
 
Bonfirelight said:
Hence this thread is about peoples opinion on charlie sheens (the actor)claims.

which is about as worthy of Politics and Protest as Bonos views on Newcastle Uniteds recent defensive frailties

Opinions about sheen's claims. You said it, not opinions about sheen himself.

His claims are purely to do with politics, which makes it rather understandable why it's in the world politics/current affairs forum.

You ought to be commenting on sheen's claims instead of flippant remarks about sheen himself. If the latter, fine, but move along to general...
 
fela fan said:
Opinions about sheen's claims. You said it, not opinions about sheen himself.
Me said:
Politics, protest and current affairs > world politics/current affairs

Peoples opinion on charlie sheens claims.

so, perhaps, do you?
I know, thats what i said in the first place. *slaps head*

furthermore opinions on sheen are valid, because as in any reporting the source of the comments and the reasons and research behind them often say as much as the comments themselves.
His claims are purely to do with politics, which makes it rather understandable why it's in the world politics/current affairs forum.

You ought to be commenting on sheen's claims instead of flippant remarks about sheen himself. If the latter, fine, but move along to general...

Just because someone comments on politics from a totally unqualified and unresearched position it doesn't make it political comment in any newsworthy sense.
 
I heard most of it, and it was all stuff that's been refuted on at least one occaision here.

Particularly that WTC7 bollocks, ffs, you might think that every archietect and civil engineer on the planet would spot it, as well as a few nutters with their own website. Or are they in on the conspiracy too?
 
Bonfirelight said:
I know, thats what i said in the first place. *slaps head*

furthermore opinions on sheen are valide, because as in any research the source of the comments and the reasons and research behind it often say as much as the comments themselves.


Just because someone comments on politics from a totally unqualified and unresearched position it doesn't make it political comment in any newsworthy sense.

You're still revising things. This thread is not "Peoples opinion on charlie sheens claims", that's only what you've tried to turn it into.

Sheen is not 'totally unqualified and unresearched', oh no, not by a million miles. Seems you've not availed yourself of what he's been talking about in the last week.

He says he began his research about six months after the attacks. Three years later he's come out with what he's researched. Presumably coz the political/psychological climate these days has improved sufficiently for him not to be cast aside as a traitor to his nation.

Furthermore, he's an american citizen, and a member of the public. That is enough qualification to hold opinions, and being famous, getting their aired in mainstream media.

Oh, and another small point, he lives in a democracy which espouses freedom of speech.

Fuck, what an unqualifed unresearched git the man is
 
In Bloom said:
I heard most of it, and it was all stuff that's been refuted on at least one occaision here.

Particularly that WTC7 bollocks, ffs, you might think that every archietect and civil engineer on the planet would spot it, as well as a few nutters with their own website. Or are they in on the conspiracy too?

Refuted here on urban? Are you fucking serious? What's urban got to do with sheen or this topic? Hold a monopoly on it all?

Most of it? Why did you stop at most of it? Why not a wee bit, or all of it? Go on, how much was most of it?

As for wtc7, he is asking silverstein to qualify his comment 'pull it'. He is inviting the man to explain what he meant.

Also he is inviting the powers that be to release the video footage of the plane crashing into the pentagon. As he points out, if there's nothing to hide, release the footage.
 
In Bloom said:
I heard most of it, and it was all stuff that's been refuted on at least one occaision here.

Particularly that WTC7 bollocks, ffs, you might think that every archietect and civil engineer on the planet would spot it, as well as a few nutters with their own website. Or are they in on the conspiracy too?

There's only one conspiracy, and it's the USG one. You appear to have fallen for it. Read up more mate, you'd change your mind. But unfortunately it seems closed like so many on this topic. Being flexible with one's consciousness seems a difficult thing to do..
 
Will reply to your post later, fela, I've got a rally to go to :)

Though I will satisfy myself to say that you clearly have a pretty closed mind on the subject yourself. Not everything can be sliced up into binary opposites, you know.
 
In Bloom said:
I heard most of it, and it was all stuff that's been refuted on at least one occaision here.

And how did anyone refute sheen's invitation to silverstein to explain his order to 'pull it' with regard to wtc7?

And how did anyone refute here on urban sheen's request to the authorities to release footage of the plane that crashed into the pentagon? How can posters refute invitations to the authorities?

You're not making sense, but that's entirely understandable.
 
fela fan said:
You're still revising things. This thread is not "Peoples opinion on charlie sheens claims", that's only what you've tried to turn it into.
if this thread is not about peoples opinion on charlie sheens claims then what the hell is it about?

Sheen is not 'totally unqualified and unresearched', oh no, not by a million miles. Seems you've not availed yourself of what he's been talking about in the last week.

He says he began his research about six months after the attacks. Three years later he's come out with what he's researched. Presumably coz the political/psychological climate these days has improved sufficiently for him not to be cast aside as a traitor to his nation.

Furthermore, he's an american citizen, and a member of the public. That is enough qualification to hold opinions, and being famous, getting their aired in mainstream media.

Oh, and another small point, he lives in a democracy which espouses freedom of speech.

Fuck, what an unqualifed unresearched git the man is
of course he is entitled to his opinion, as are you, as am i.
none of our opinions however can hold enough credible weight to be deemed especially newsworthy.

i look forward to seeing his 'research' and his sources which i'm sure amount to more than looking at a few conspiracy websites occasionaly over the last few years.

charlie sheen said:
It seems to me like 19 amateurs with box cutters taking over four commercial airliners and hitting 75% of their targets, that feels like a conspiracy theory. It raises a lot of questions."

There was a feeling, it just didn't look any commercial jetliner I've flown on any time in my life
damning stuff
 
In Bloom said:
Will reply to your post later, fela, I've got a rally to go to :)

Though I will satisfy myself to say that you clearly have a pretty closed mind on the subject yourself. Not everything can be sliced up into binary opposites, you know.

That's alright mate, enjoy the rally.

But here, let me make an appeal to you, and it will require you to beleive me in what i'm saying: basically i don't have a closed mind on this topic. I've done fucking tonnes of reading and research on this topic, and hence my opinions and questions and doubts about the official version of events.

I suggest you make a big effort and unsatisfy yourself i've a pretty closed mind on the subject.

As for the binary opposites, everyone constantly tells me it was 'incompetence'. That is pretty binary. I've shown in great detail how extremely unlikely it was down to incompetence in my fbi thread, currently in world forum, as have thousands of others, including some very respected commentators and journalists.

The only answer many of you have is that we must believe the US were incompetent. That is literally impossible to believe once one researches everything that has been discussed and reported on, usually linking to mainstream media articles.

Take those fingers outta your ears mate.
 
Bonfirelight said:
if this thread is not about peoples opinion on charlie sheens claims then what the hell is it about?

That's what this thread IS about.

It's not about people's opinions about charlie sheen.
 
If you want more damning stuff bonfire, then take a peek at this link. In it you'll find reams of research on 911, all taken from mainstream media articles.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

There's mountains of stuff on it mate. What's different about sheen is that he's famous, so his voice will get listened to. He's saying only what numerous non-famous people are saying.

But he gets the coverage, and it's good news for those who believe the USG were complicit in some way over the attacks.

It's also noteworthy that he gets attacked, rather than what he's saying, exactly in the manner that happens year after year here on urban.

Methods of silencing mate. Just deride the messenger if his message is too dangerous.
 
fela fan said:
You've quoted two sentences out of hundreds of them, and out of context, and conclude that it is damning stuff.
you want more? i was just trying to spare the other posters from Mr Sheens opinions and gut feelings, but if you want more

Presidential Advisor Charlie Sheen said:
"It seems to me that upon the revelation of that news that the secret service would grab the President as if he was on fire and remove him from that room," said Sheen.
Presidential VCR operator Charlie Sheen said:
"It might lead you to believe that he'd seen similar images in some type of rehearsal as it were, I don't know."
Video Footage analysist Charlie Sheen said:
What about all these shots that had this thing perfectly documented? Instead they put out five frames that they claim not to have authorized, it's really suspicious,"
etc etc guesswork, gut feelings and personal opinions
fela fan said:
You're right, it is damning, about your methods of arriving at conclusions.

As for his research, amongst other stuff he'll have read will be things like this:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Gore_Vidal/Dreaming_War.html

If you want damning stuff, enjoy reading that link.
the thing is, i personally believe there is some legs on the whole theory and more to it (9/11) than has been made public. I don't believe Charlie Sheen or by association, you, are adding weight to the cause with such unfounded allegations
 
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