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Can there be a revolution in the UK

Can there be a revolution in the UK in the next 50 years?

  • Yes. It's going to happen.

    Votes: 10 8.3%
  • It's a definite possibility

    Votes: 25 20.8%
  • Probably not, but it's the only thing worth working for?

    Votes: 16 13.3%
  • Doubtful

    Votes: 8 6.7%
  • More chance of seeing George Galloway on the next Big Brother

    Votes: 16 13.3%
  • Revolutionary groups ha ha ha

    Votes: 26 21.7%
  • Reformism is King

    Votes: 4 3.3%
  • Sadly no chance

    Votes: 15 12.5%

  • Total voters
    120
FreddyB said:
can anyone reccomend a decent book about '68?

Generation 1 & 2: Herve Hamon, Patrick Rotman: Points Actuels

2 books; bloody brilliant. Not so much dealing with Mai itself; but the years up to and away from it.

You have to be able to read French.

The movie, if anyones interested, is Jean Eustauche "La Maman et la Putain."
( 1972)

( Aplogixes 4 my shitty spelling. :oops: )
 
tbaldwin said:
I think that part of allende's downfall was due to a lorry drivers strike.
Pinochets coup was just that a coup. To try to pretend that this was some workers revolution is not only stupid it's offensive to the victims of Pinochet's regime.
 
I'm for it...I really dont want to grow up adult-y in a creepy police state :( They might keep the creepyness down for a genration or two, but buy then they have just killed people's freedom, because,...people will be born into this world were they think it's normal to have cctv camra pointed at your face 24hrs a day. If we let these barstards carry on we're basically signing the freedom of....EVERYone....away.


Hmmm. But dont listen to me, i'm young and stupid. And not scarcastic...but actully not that bright.
 
redsquirrel said:
Pinochets coup was just that a coup. To try to pretend that this was some workers revolution is not only stupid it's offensive to the victims of Pinochet's regime.


I'm hardly saying it was some glorious workers revolution. Rather the case is about overthrowing elected governments.
Unfortunately it takes a lot of force. The right in Chile had that. But the Left in the UK, er well what force do they have?
 
FreddyB said:
That's pissed on that bonfire :(

Oui, c'est inutile, votre suggestion, M. Ace.

Actually, I'm going back to French myself. If you'd 'studied' it in school you might be surprised at how much of it you know.

Question: how much of the hopes of 1968 were mistakenly invested in the Miterrand victory of 1981?
 
You may laugh...

From a rather good Deleuze interview

For Deleuze, May '68 is simple: it's an intrusion of the real. People often have wanted to view it as the reign of the imaginary, but it's really, says Deleuze, a gust of the real in its pure state <une bouffée du réel dans l'état pur>. It's the real, he repeats, and people don't understand that, it was prodigious! People in reality, that's what a becoming is. There can be bad becomings, and it's almost required for historians not to have understood that, Deleuze believes, because at such moments, the difference between history and becomings is revealed, and May '68 was a becoming-revolutionary without a revolutionary future. People can always make fun of it after the fact, but becomings took hold of people, even becomings-animal, even becomings-children, becomings-women for men, becomings-men for women :)
 
Revolution is a reaction against oppression/poverty... I can't see it happening in England unless a military coup happens or a large proportion of the population looses their job...
 
We aint ready for true revolution in this country just yet.
When all our civel liberties are gone & this cunt of a government get their own way with this shity new proposal that will leave us all afraid to demonstrate publicly in fear of being placed under house arrest ; thats when it'll kick off boy!
 
libertyrebel said:
We aint ready for true revolution in this country just yet.
When all our civel liberties are gone & this cunt of a government get their own way with this shity new proposal that will leave us all afraid to demonstrate publicly in fear of being placed under house arrest ; thats when it'll kick off boy!
So what protests and campaigns have you been directly involved with?

Care to list them?
 
social revolution?

Isn't it plausable that, in the face of the ongoing erosion of civil liberty, destruction of the environment, and corporate led media, the biggest inhibitor in a concerted social backlash is a lack of unity and direction amongst those who profess to feel strongly about such subjects. Not in terms of some jingoistic construct of law and politcal reform, but a decision to publicly declare one's dissatisfaction with what's going on around them. There seems to be a vast undercurrent of social dissent. Maybe not in a distinct direction, but current events seem to be attracting more and more people to the idea of having a bit of a rant.
Home grown media is the closest thing i think we'll see to a revolution in the next few years. This forum, and others like it, are becoming more common. Banksy influenced graf, carrying whatever agenda is appearing all over the country. The music scene is getting more politicised, the further things go.

If it ever does come down to a blood-and-riot-police revolution, then it would require far greater numbers of organised, dissatisfied, united people with a specific agenda to strive for. To paraphrase marx "there will never be a revolution on a full stomach".

Before any major political reform there would have to be a massive media reform.

I dunno, i'm stoned, young and naive
 
Before any major political reform there would have to be a massive media reform.
This forum, and others like it, are becoming more common.

I wouldn't use the term 'reform', but the ability to review and discuss mulitiple news sources, especially over the past couple of years as more and more papers have on-line editions and more people participate in forums or blogs, constitutes a very different form of media consumption than has happened in the past; although only for a small number of (often already politicised) people. However, simply keeping up with current affairs or discussing revolutionary ideas on the 'net is not in itself revolutionary activity - although it may make people more sympathetic to those ideas, and in my own case it's encouraged me to become involved in organised groups.

The main barrier to any kind of revolutionary movement in my view is the lack of social interaction amongst communities - due to commuting, centralisation of retail away from people's immediate vicinity, broadcast/personal media or large scale events constantly replacing more social forms of entertainment etc. I've lived in my current place for the past 18 months, and a couple of people who post here live just 'round the corner, until I'd been speaking to one of them for about a year over at enrager I had no idea they lived near me.

The advantage this forum in particular is that so many people know each other off-line that despite it being the most recent and in some ways most atomising form of communication, it also appears to encourage people to meet face to face. And in my view, any self-managed revolution (as opposed to a coup) is only going to take place in this country if there's a significant shift towards face to face interaction between people in communities, as opposed to the often exclusive work/special-interest interaction that occurs now.
 
'I dunno, i'm stoned, young and naive'

maybe, but some interesting things to say, welcome to the boards pintle,

btw, what's a pintle?.
 
Watching an amazing tv series on BBC2: The Lost world of Mitchell and Kenyon, these were pioneer film makers, who around 1900 specialised in filming packed shots of everyday life, people leaving work, outside the (unbelievably many)pubs, weddings, temperance marches, footie, etc, as well as other street scenes. Every person filmed, a potential customer. I was struck by how crowded the streets were, people even sauntered along the main highways, even though there was(admittedly less) traffic on them. Basically people lived their lives much more on the streets. There were so many parades, fairs, events, people obviously wanted to get out of the crowded houses. Thus there was much more opportunity for conversation/dialogue, argument as welll as fights and trouble!

I think this is somewhat relevant as now we live (as someone noted) very self contained lives, though this is not the case in Italy for example, where life is still more on the streets. Reclaim the Streets while never having popular support, even less revolutionary potential, though it certainly fired many young peoples imagination, perhaps came closest to what it must have been like then: the spontaneity, the chance encounters, the energy and edginess, pity there was so little politics on them. However, in many ways, one could say that through the net we are now beginning to live life more on the ‘virtual streets'.


Btwm, I don’t think I am a revolutionary, they are very rare, but more significantly, they seem to ‘eat their own children’ as someone once said. Again, in Britain, they just don’t happen: Don Cruickshank, the narrator tells us

‘poor diet and lack of hygiene led to ill-health, worsened by often dreadful working conditions. These were the days of child labour, people in clogs and women made old before their time. With an average life expectancy of 50 for women and 46 for men, few reached old age, while the smiling faces of young men and women were soon to be darkened by the horrors of the First World War.’

and there was still no revolution.

I also think at heart, we are a very conservative and cautious country, which above all, fears anarchy and desires stability(hence the outrage over pensions.) I was struck my the amount of marches: boy scouts, military, empire day, religious sectarian, etc, in the films. Apparently in the 1880,s there was a working class conservative organisation called the Primrose League, which stood for 'Queen And Empire' which had over a million members! With the move to a rentier class of property owners i think we are likely to become more cautious and conservative, not less, though a major financial crash may change all that. Globally things 'are' somewhat different, with many global citizens saying enough is enough! Imo, here, though
what radicalism there is in the UK is largely a form of bourgois individualism, with little collective understanding or empathy with those at the bottom, more concerned with the classic liberal issues of civil rights/liberties.

http://www.bfi.org.uk/collections/mk/
 
pintle said:
dunno what a pintle is, i just like the sound of it.

A pin or bolt forming the pivot of a hinge.
(The rudder of a boat or ship swivels on pintles).
The link, bolt or pin on a towing bracket.
The needle or plunger on a diesel engine injector.
 
Well this 'democracy' has turned out to be a load of bollax, so no chances of any meaningful change there. We have no control over, or say in, our g/ments, corporate activities, markets, media, our hidden rulers, and increasingly our LAWS. All avenues of change have been taken from us.

The future is bleak. With every fart we make marked and filed for future use against us.

So it would have to be a silent revolution. A movement of individuals. All going in the same direction, but attached to no easily located particular group. A mass WAVE that they won't even see coming till its on top of them.

A silent revolution to match their silent wars on us.

Get off the grid, be self-sufficient, don't use banks to pay your bills, look to favour, barter and systems like LETTS, use the black market more (the only TRUE market out here), home educate, get out of the little boxes we're living in and commune more with each other, stick with local suppliers, embrace your community/village more, look after your own health, stay away from pharmaceutical products and their drug-dealing 'doctors', grow your own food, help each other, Love each other, get our relationships back on track again, don't watch brainwashing, opinion making TV, throw out hierarchies and go for networks, and when they tell you to go to war and start conscripting your kids in for the job, tell them to f**k off ... Oh yeah, and buy guns, LOTS of guns ... Ask governments for NOTHING, accept NOTHING from them, render them redundant, refuse their ID Cards, the coming chips and the barcode identities, rely on yourselves ... I could go on ... but you get my drift ...

The way things are going we're going to need these back-up systems in place anyway, so we lose nothing.

Revolutions have tended to be orchestrated by our rulers, who have seen trouble coming, taken it over and drove it to exactly where they wanted it to end up. Usually in the bin.

So go silently, be as a thief in the night, and take back our POWER.

:)
 
CaroleK said:
Well this 'democracy' has turned out to be a load of bollax, so no chances of any meaningful change there. We have no control over, or say in, our g/ments, corporate activities, markets, media, our hidden rulers, and increasingly our LAWS. All avenues of change have been taken from us.

:)


Thats not true. We do have a say in electing our government.Look at what people in Iraq are prepared to put up with to cast their vote.
Corporate activities and markets can change if enough people reject what they have to offer. You are very lucky to live in a country where change is possible.
 
'Thats not true. We do have a say in electing our government' - tbaldwin

No we don't.

Its an illusion.

A veil pulled over our eyes to make us believe that we are living in a fair and free system. Which, of course, it never has been. They just have to meddle with the results of 'key constituencies' and come up with the party in favour at the time. The party thats pre-geared to institute policies that enable the aims of our ruling elite. The powerful financiers that back them. The ones behind the scenes who we DON'T see.

The majority of Iraqis didn't want our 'western democratic systems', they weren't prepared to install puppet g/ments like we have in the West, who bow to the almighty power of the illusory ballot box, and answer to the whims of wealthy westerners. They told them to 'f**k off.

So they were forced into it instead.

Not my idea of 'free and fair'.
 
I think a revolution would be a whole lot more plausable if the left wasnt so divided.
What would happen?? A fight for power from different groups -
 
Most potential revolutionaries are alienated from the left-wing movements in this country by the pointless counter-productive bickering which keeps the left in britain forever on the fringes of political influence.
 
Half the problem with any sort of organised british counter to the corporate controlled consumerist economy and centre right government is the insistence on the use of jongoistic terms like "the left". Define left wing.
There will never be a socialist revolution in britain, unless there is a sever economic change and our civil infrastructure starts being phsyically taken apart, even then, i think people in britain would be sceptical of an old school "hard left" organisation. There are simply not enough supporters of a state centred economy/ keynsian economic theory to make a traditional revolution happen.
The prospect of a social revolution- millions of people across the country choosing to live their lives in a different way, within the confines of the already imposed state system, is entirely feasible, and symptoms of such a shift are visible in daily life.
Ten years ago vegetarianism was an extremely marginalised lifestyle,
Five years ago the same was true of the concept of fair trade.

We are now seeing the growth of fair trade clothing companies, book swaps, urban collectives like this one, and through indymedia etc, the virginal stages of a non-financially-orientated national media network.

The left is, to all intents and purposes, dead in britain. That doesn't meen that the briitsh populace is devoid of compassion, or doesnt lust for freedom, or lacks faith in the welfare state.

People simply don't wan't a revolution.
They may not react well to blood in the streets, but they would almost definitely be encouraged by graffiti on a billboard, or a free 'zine at their bus stop of cafe.

If there is going to be any kind of revolution in the next hundred years, it will take the form of a radical change of outlook and aims for the majority of the british populace, not government reform, or violent action.
 
pintle said:
The prospect of a social revolution- millions of people across the country choosing to live their lives in a different way, within the confines of the already imposed state system, is entirely feasible, and symptoms of such a shift are visible in daily life.
Ten years ago vegetarianism was an extremely marginalised lifestyle,
Five years ago the same was true of the concept of fair trade.


People simply don't wan't a revolution.
They may not react well to blood in the streets, but they would almost definitely be encouraged by graffiti on a billboard, or a free 'zine at their bus stop of cafe.

If there is going to be any kind of revolution in the next hundred years, it will take the form of a radical change of outlook and aims for the majority of the british populace, not government reform, or violent action.


I think that the amount of Vegeterians 10 yrs ago was much higher than today. Fair trade is still tiny. Either/both can be seen as really positive, but they are are essentially lifestyle politics and wont lead to a significant change for most people.
There will always be people who reject some of the mainstream, but massive social change is unlikely to come from a small group of people who want to be nice.
 
I didnt say it was likely, all i suggested was that i think that a society-wide change in paradigm is the only change that we might see. I have no doubts that any attempted revolution in the uk would be put down, if not by the british government itself, then by the UN or even America for that matter.
 
pintle said:
We are now seeing the growth of fair trade clothing companies, book swaps, urban collectives like this one, and through indymedia etc, the virginal stages of a non-financially-orientated national media network.
...
People simply don't wan't a revolution.
They may not react well to blood in the streets, but they would almost definitely be encouraged by graffiti on a billboard, or a free 'zine at their bus stop of cafe.

This is a modern myth. One only need look at the similar movements in the 1970s which had far more collectives and alternative media and political graffiti. Look earlier at the growth of the Co-op and the mutual building societies. There were mechanics insitutes, workers' educational movement, public meetings, Left Book Club (and others) reading groups, workplace newsletters, lots of newspapers and journals as well as political discussion at the bookshops.

I not trying to swing the other way a paint a rosey picture of past revolutionary days but to warn against seeing everything as somehow new and some alternative panecea never tried before.
 
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