British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[maomao]

you'll have to wish a bit harder because if they deport him he's going all the way to ireland.

Is there anything else really fucking obvious you'd like to add to the conversation or is that it for now?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Yes. According to that law. Though if they deport you I wish they'd do it to a country with no Internet access.

 

[Pickman's model]

Is there anything else really fucking obvious you'd like to add to the conversation or is that it for now?

yeh auld Spymaster's sitting back and laughing at the state you've worked yourself into, you've really made his afternoon

 

[hash tag]

I gather that apart from being British and Bangladeshi she could also have a claim to being Dutch (had baby by a Dutch National).
What if all 3 countries stripped her of her citizenship (turned her down for it), what would happen then?

 

[Spymaster]

If I remember correctly, you've actively sought Irish nationality, so you can legitimately be regarded as 'foreign' if the HS decides to revoke your citizenship.

If I'd joined ISIS he could have removed my UK citizenship before I'd ever sought an Irish passport. The RoI government considered me to be an Irish citizen from birth, same as the Bangladeshi government considers Begum.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So, the racisty thing - if a future HoSec removed the UK citizenship of a white, duel UK and New Zealand citizen for going off to join IS, would that be racist?

I think it is naive to ignore the race angle here. Not least for the open goal extremists are being given - 'You think you belong here, that it's your home, well look, they don't. And they get to decide. You will never belong'.

But lay that to one side. You don't need the race angle to see how plainly wrong this is. To pick up on those calling it racist is to pick on a weaker point in the argument rather than the much stronger ones.

 

[Pickman's model]

I gather that apart from being British and Bangladeshi she could also have a claim to being Dutch (had baby by a Dutch National).
What if all 3 countries stripped her of her citizenship (turned her down for it), what would happen then?

oh well spotted

 

[Pickman's model]

If I'd joined ISIS he could have removed my UK citizenship before I'd ever sought an Irish passport. The RoI government considered me to be an Irish citizen from birth, same as the Bangladeshi government considers Begum.

i wonder if you can be both in daesh and a freemason

 

[Athos]

I think it is naive to ignore the race angle here. Not least for the open goal extremists are being given - 'You think you belong here, that it's your home, well look, they don't. And they get to decide. You will never belong'.

But lay that to one side. You don't need the race angle to see how plainly wrong this is. To pick up on those calling it racist is to pick on a weaker point in the argument rather than the much stronger ones.

For me, the fact that two-tier Britishness is likely to be counterproductive is one of the better arguments against this law.

 

[Spymaster]

I gather that apart from being British and Bangladeshi she could also have a claim to being Dutch (had baby by a Dutch National).
What if all 3 countries stripped her of her citizenship (turned her down for it), what would happen then?

I think it's a first past the post system.

 

[hash tag]

OK, so she tries Britain first and we let her in because it is her first port of call. That makes sense.

 

[Spymaster]

i wonder if you can be both in daesh and a freemason

I reckon they'd fail on the "being of good character" bit.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I reckon they'd fail on the "being of good character" bit.

But they'd be okay in the "belief in a supreme being" stuff.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But they'd be okay in the "belief in a supreme being" stuff.

The whole 'girls and boys should be kept separate' thing too.

 

[Raheem]

I reckon they'd fail on the "being of good character" bit.

Nah. Maybe in the early days, but I think Daesh have dropped their standards quite a bit as time has gone on.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I reckon they'd fail on the "being of good character" bit.

(((Spy's ambitions of joining ISIS)))

 

[Pickman's model]

(((Spy's ambitions of joining ISIS)))

if you watch spy, he's never an early adopter, he often comes in after something's jumped the shark

 

[Spymaster]

But they'd be okay in the "belief in a supreme being" stuff.

Yep. They smoke that one.

 

[andysays]

If I'd joined ISIS he could have removed my UK citizenship before I'd ever sought an Irish passport. The RoI government considered me to be an Irish citizen from birth, same as the Bangladeshi government considers Begum.

I don't think we should push the equivalence between Eire and Bangladesh too far as their rules aren't exactly the same.

As I understand it, Begum's supposed Bangladeshi citizenship is based on her mum having been a Bangladeshi citizenship at the time of her, Begum's, birth, which appears not to be certain.

But the main point of difference is that Begum considers herself a British citizen, not a Bangladeshi.

 

[cupid_stunt]

OK, so she tries Britain first ...

I doubt she'll be joining Britain First - Official Website! anytime soon.

 

[maomao]

yeh auld Spymaster's sitting back and laughing at the state you've worked yourself into, you've really made his afternoon

Ah so he was just pretending to be functionally illiterate. Nice one.

 

[Spymaster]

But the main point of difference is that Begum considers herself a British citizen, not a Bangladeshi.

Begum considered herself to be a citizen of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, until a couple of weeks ago.

 

[kebabking]

I think it is naive to ignore the race angle here. Not least for the open goal extremists are being given - 'You think you belong here, that it's your home, well look, they don't. And they get to decide. You will never belong'.

But lay that to one side. You don't need the race angle to see how plainly wrong this is. To pick up on those calling it racist is to pick on a weaker point in the argument rather than the much stronger ones.

See, while I'm not a complete fool and see some dangers in this new, more muscular interpretation of the legal structure of citizenship - as eloquently set out by danny la rouge - i'm also not blind to the dangers of a 'one way right', which is what citizenship with no limitations is, nor am I blind to the potential deterrent effect such revocation might have.

 

[Spymaster]

Ah so he was just pretending to be functionally illiterate.

Still. Doesn't. Get. It.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ah so he was just pretending to be functionally illiterate. Nice one.

he's had a nice rise out of you

 

[maomao]

he's had a nice rise out of you

Oh fuck off you pointless twat.

 

[Pickman's model]

Oh fuck off you pointless twat.

despite affecting a wide vocabulary you have a miniscule and dull repertoire of insults which don't improve through repetition.

 

[MickiQ]

The first question I have to ask is what's with all the journalists going out there to interview her? iI thought it was supposed to be a dangerous warzone but they seem to be acting like they're on a day trip to Margate which makes me doubt Javid's it's too dangerous to risk lives spiel.

Looks like she's going to give the Dutch a whirl. Let's see how that goes.

Whilst I am always a sucker when it comes to the trials and tribulations of true love, Not well I would imagine, I know several men who have foreign spouses, all of them jumped through many overly complicated hoops to get their wives here taking better than 2 years in one case and that's not citizenship that's permission to live here before they can apply for citizenship.
I daresay getting a foreign wife into Holland isn't any easier and that's before the fact that all the guys I know were fine upstanding citizens and not failed jihadi.
That reads to me like something she thought up on the spur of the moment and has no idea of the obstacles she faces. She clearly doesn't fully understand the gravity of her situation or the complexity of the law.Javid knows that this girl has few people rooting for her to come here and is making political capital out of the situation. Have I mentioned I think he's a twat?
I think he will lose on appeal and hope he does, not for her sake but because it sets a legal precedent no civilized society should ever accept.

But, either way, it seems the government is willing to give it a shot. Possibly because they think they're on solid ground, possibly because they want to look tough notwithstanding they know they'll lose, and possibly because, even if they're wrong about the law, the difficulties she faces in challenging it might keep her out for a long time (during which the legal position could be overtaken by events e.g. her death).

Agree totally with this, Javid has got whatever benefit he can out of this now by saying he is taking her citizenship, even if he loses the case 2 or 3 years from now it will personally cost him nothing.

 

[Spymaster]

Oh fuck off you pointless twat.

Now now, maomao.

 

[The39thStep]