Sunak wants to phase out legal smoking

[maomao]

There will not be any decline in the demand for health needs if people live longer, they will end-up costing more by living longer and ending-up with more complex health and care needs.

Do you have evidence for this? Everything I've seen suggests smoking costs loads and causes complex health issues. A worst case smoker with a couple of bouts of lung cancer, asthma, COPD, diabetes, amputations etc., on the sick from late 50s and dead at 70 will cost loads more than someone who works to retirement age and dies at 90.

 

[maomao]

" labour voting idiots" interesting take and view point on here


but 15 -20 years ago E cigs were those little cigeratte resembling inhaler things not the puff the magic dragon devices with thewir plumes of glycerol smoke that give commercial stage smoke machines a run for their money

They weren't that different, they just took a lot of charging and refilling. Inside bit was basically the same.

 

[Wkdloz]

With so many more pressing problems in the country right now, this seems like a weird thing to go after. Has anyone really been clamoring for banning smoking outside? Even as a non-smoker who gets routinely irritated by smokers who walk and smoke, it seems excessive in an age where smoking is already on the decline, and pubs and bars are closing in record numbers. I don't see it doing anything for Labour in terms of popularity. It just gives more ammunition to tossers like Farage and Tories who go on about the nanny state.

Or maybe Starmer doesn't care and he's getting all the unpopular stuff out of the way while he has five years of a massive majority. Who cares about someone having a fag in a park ffs. Kids playgrounds sure fine but let the dying vestiges of the smokers have their open air fag on the heath or whatever.

Exactly, smoking is a great idea unless you're one of the 8000 a year who die because of it.

 

[maomao]

Exactly, smoking is a great idea unless you're one of the 8000 a year who die because of it.

More than that. NHS says 2019 had half a million hospital admissions and 75,000 deaths. Not far off COVID rates but hasn't gone down as far.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Do you have evidence for this? Everything I've seen suggests smoking costs loads and causes complex health issues. A worst case smoker with a couple of bouts of lung cancer, asthma, COPD, diabetes, amputations etc., on the sick from late 50s and dead at 70 will cost loads more than someone who works to retirement age and dies at 90.

Of course I have no evidence, do you for the reverse situation? None of these studies claiming smoking costs billions ever try to balance it out with living longer, because basically I think it's impossible to do, hence why I said I take them with a massive pinch of salt.

I cousin of mine was diagnosed with ling cancer a year before she retired, and sadly passed away two years after retirement.

OTHO, my mother was a non-smoker, with major physical disabilities and dementia, and lived until she was almost 90.

I know which cost 'the system' the most.

 

[The39thStep]

Having a pint and a smoke is one of the joys of life for a lot of people. I don't smoke anymore, but when I'm out I'm normally outside with the smokers as it's the most social part of the venue. The ban indoors was fair because a smoky pub isn't pleasant for some, but outside??

Smoking is allowed on the outdoor bits of the cafes here . I packed in a couple of years ago but I am really not fussed sitting outside at a table where people smoke and if I did I’d just sit elsewhere. Cant see these proposals going down well in the U.K. tbh

 

[editor]

I'm not convinced that's not just a scare story TBH. In the same way as "super-strong modern skunk" has been copiously bolloxed about in recent years

20% (20mg) nicotine fluid approximates to one cigarette (11-15mg, of which typically 1.5mg is actually absorbed) over 40-60 inhalations, depending on lung capacity/amount inhaled. So for one puff, to equivalent 2-3 fags, you would need a concentration far in excess of 100% of fluid.

It simply does not add-up.

I wouldn't trust a word spoken by the vape industry (which is often the same people as the tobacco industry). Breathing in warmed up weird chemicals sure doesn't seem like something that is going to be without any health risks at all.

Disposable vapes are a fucking disgrace, with the industry managing to create something that is even more toxic and harmful to the environment than filthy fags, and not giving a fuck about it. And all that pretty packaging and flavours are designed to appeal to children and get them hooked, nice and young, It's just like alco-pops all over again.

 

[Elpenor]

Reflected today that the “what happens to pubs” argument for a smoking ban is a bit like the “what about business” angle made by those against the 20mph speed limit in Wales / elsewhere

I’d rather have people’s health and lives as higher priority than making money

 

[Artaxerxes]

Reflected today that the “what happens to pubs” argument for a smoking ban is a bit like the “what about business” angle made by those against the 20mph speed limit in Wales / elsewhere

I’d rather have people’s health and lives as higher priority than making money

Its probably the least issue pubs are currently facing on top of all the others. People just aren't boozing as much.

 

[nogojones]

My PE teacher used to like a crafty fag with his flask of Bovril while he was tucked up in his sheepskin coat on the touchline watching us all freeze our bollocks off on a frozen rugby pitch.

Some of my junior school teachers smoked in class

 

[pogofish]

" labour voting idiots" interesting take and view point on here


but 15 -20 years ago E cigs were those little cigeratte resembling inhaler things not the puff the magic dragon devices with their plumes of glycerol smoke that give commercial stage smoke machines a run for their money

The basic technology hasn't changed that much in the interim. Control chip and battery tech tech has but heating coils, not so much. Many of the basic e-cig types sold today are still based on designs from back then.

And even back then, the differences between PG/VG proportions and how they affected vapour production were there, along with all sorts of "homebrew" tricks to enhance vapour production for those who enjoyed it. Replacing the wadding in early fluid holders with aquarium filter material to get more/cleaner tasting vapour was a very common one.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Its probably the least issue pubs are currently facing on top of all the others. People just aren't boozing as much.

My local Spoons is heaving all the time, my tipple of choice there is San Miguel, £3.99 a pint. My actual local, The Richmond is a much more convivial environment, yet at £6.90 for a Moretti makes anything more than a couple a serious investment. The Richmond does heave from time to time, but nothing like the Spoons does, not even close.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Some of my junior school teachers smoked in class

My head used to smoke rollies whilst railing against my latest outrage, used a rolling machine as couldn’t skin up properly, never really heard a word he said as was fascinated by the rolling process with the machine, still don’t properly understand how they work.

 

[pogofish]

I wouldn't trust a word spoken by the vape industry (which is often the same people as the tobacco industry). Breathing in warmed up weird chemicals sure doesn't seem like something that is going to be without any health risks at all.

Disposable vapes are a fucking disgrace, with the industry managing to create something that is even more toxic and harmful to the environment than filthy fags, and not giving a fuck about it. And all that pretty packaging and flavours are designed to appeal to children and get them hooked, nice and young, It's just like alco-pops all over again.

I wouldn't trust any of them TBH.

The anti-smoking "industry" is every bit as ridden with self-interest/ulterior motives as the vape or tobacco industry. Especially as its most major players are now actively chasing policy-making/influencing roles over any actual medicine and expanding their scope to include alcohol control and breaking related medical treatment out of the NHS or similar organisations worldwide altogether and putting it on to a separate US-style funding model. There is a definite conflict of interest there!

I doubt anyone is arguing that disposables are a good thing for anyone - esp given the waste/pollution involved and they way they have been marketed straight at kids.

 

[editor]

Reflected today that the “what happens to pubs” argument for a smoking ban is a bit like the “what about business” angle made by those against the 20mph speed limit in Wales / elsewhere

I’d rather have people’s health and lives as higher priority than making money

Sure, but you have to put that comparison in context: roads aren't closing, but there's been over 3,000 pub closures in the last six years.

BBPA reports over 500 pub closures in 2023

Over 500 pubs have closed across the UK in 2023, according to the latest figures from the British Beer and Pub Association (BBPA).

www.thecaterer.com

 

[newme]

Disposables should be banned. For many reasons but throwing lithium away seems a fairly neutral one and also a stupid thing to do.

 

[newme]

Sure, but you have to put that comparison in context: roads aren't closing, but there's been over 3,000 pub closures in the last six years.

BBPA reports over 500 pub closures in 2023

Over 500 pubs have closed across the UK in 2023, according to the latest figures from the British Beer and Pub Association (BBPA).

www.thecaterer.com

And all their staff, plus the taxed income on revenues, plus business rates for all kinds of things including local funding.

 

[Artaxerxes]

My local Spoons is heaving all the time, my tipple of choice there is San Miguel, £3.99 a pint. My actual local, The Richmond is a much more convivial environment, yet at £6.90 for a Moretti makes anything more than a couple a serious investment. The Richmond does heave from time to time, but nothing like the Spoons does, not even close.

Wetherspoons is a special case, its now the hub of a community attracting everyone of all ages because its cheap as shit. It also has those cheap meals and coffee deals.

Actual figures were a steady decrease in boozing and those who were boozing are often doing it in different places than a pub. Fairly sure pandemic might have driven an increase in booze but the overall trend for it before hand was a collapse. Now thats over with the pubs have to deal with waves hands every other fucking thing wrong with this country like energy and entertainment bills and margins were already shit but are absolutely damaging the hospitality industry in general.

 

[ska invita]

Rather than fix anything meaningful, ie economic or war related, suggesting crap like this looks meaningful and progresive to people who live in bunkers

 

[pogofish]

Wetherspoons is a special case, its now the hub of a community attracting everyone of all ages because its cheap as shit. It also has those cheap meals and coffee deals.

Another reason Wetherspoons is looking so healthy just now is that it has disposed of 20+ of its pubs over the last two years, only keeping the most lucrative.

IIRC there are still 10 or more pubs at risk of sale/closure so they can keep their outgoings to income levels to the desired proportion.

 

[PTK]

Why not close all the pubs and shops and every other <expletive> thing and we can all sit in a room with a neural link to World Wide Web.

 

[Tropi]

Another 'HUGE' issue to be debated: Thatcher's portrait being moved. Such a priority...

 

[smokedout]

Reflected today that the “what happens to pubs” argument for a smoking ban is a bit like the “what about business” angle made by those against the 20mph speed limit in Wales / elsewhere

I’d rather have people’s health and lives as higher priority than making money

Not sure people's concerns are based on worries about the profits of capitalists or even the economy. More that pubs, cafes, clubs, music venues etc are important community resources for all kinds of reasons and it would be a big loss if they were to disappear.

 

[frogwoman]

Why not close all the pubs and shops and every other <expletive> thing and we can all sit in a room with a neural link to World Wide Web.

Sometimes I think that's what some people want.

 

[Elpenor]

Not sure people's concerns are based on worries about the profits of capitalists or even the economy. More that pubs, cafes, clubs, music venues etc are important community resources for all kinds of reasons and it would be a big loss if they were to disappear.

I meant more the media than posters on this thread. I am not really a pub goer so accept I will see pubs differently to others.

 

[editor]

Not sure people's concerns are based on worries about the profits of capitalists or even the economy. More that pubs, cafes, clubs, music venues etc are important community resources for all kinds of reasons and it would be a big loss if they were to disappear.

Without pubs many successful musicians, bands, DJs, performers etc might never have been able to exist.

Many pubs aren't just a place to go and drink booze. They're community centres, meeting hubs, activist centres, dance studios, band gigs, comedy venues and sometimes just a place for the lonely to find company.

 

[Calamity1971]

Esther mcvey does a u turn and enrages Jews and anyone with a brain/heart.
She's doubled down and refused to delete.

 

[PR1Berske]

Without pubs many successful musicians, bands, DJs, performers etc might never have been able to exist.

Many pubs aren't just a place to go and drink booze. They're community centres, meeting hubs, activist centres, dance studios, band gigs, comedy venues and sometimes just a place for the lonely to find company.

I might have told this before. I was day drinking some years ago in a cracker of a pub here in Preston. Bar manager and one other customer in. A man walks in and asks for a single short of any kind, he just wants to calm his nerves. He then opened up about his mother dying earlier that day in hospital and he was just getting some time away. The three of us became a self help group for a while and turned the pub into a little refuge of calm.

That's the kind of pub culture I love and have always defended. It's why I'm very snotty about Wetherspoons, and you don't need to know my thoughts on other chains, they're not designed to allow people to stay as people, rather than just become customers.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Do you have evidence for this? Everything I've seen suggests smoking costs loads and causes complex health issues. A worst case smoker with a couple of bouts of lung cancer, asthma, COPD, diabetes, amputations etc., on the sick from late 50s and dead at 70 will cost loads more than someone who works to retirement age and dies at 90.

It's entirely possible this won't happen as longer life will generally be healthier and preventative health will mitigate any serious health servicing...

 

[Miss-Shelf]

It's entirely possible this won't happen as longer life will generally be healthier and preventative health will mitigate any serious health servicing...

except people won't be having the uptick to health of retiring at 60 or 65. If they're working till 70 and beyond that's going to take a toll on their health