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one of the best posts I've ever read. I think it will change my life, it's so persuasive. Bear with me while I work it through.
You & I are both speculators.
You buy some ETH for £1 & sell to me for £2
I sell back to you for £4 & you sell back to me for £8
I sell back to you for £16 & you sell back to me for £32
I sell back to you for £64 & you sell back to me for £128
I sell back to you for £256 & you sell back to me for £512
I sell back to you for £1024 & you sell back to me for £2048
& so on and so on until eventually, at the end of the chessboard, you sell to me for eighteen quintillion, four hundred forty-six quadrillion, seven hundred forty-four trillion, seventy-three billion, seven hundred nine million, five hundred fifty-one thousand, six hundred and fifteen ukp.
just like the story says.

Result. You're rich. Well done! But you could be richer! come on, speculate, I'm willing to sell back to you...



and the sum result of all this trading is... absolutely sfa except the eventual heat death of the planet.

O
Yep bravo. There's loads of new money in the system that comes from bad debt that know of us should worry our pretty heads about that or finding any escape route.

I'm well aware of the chessboard theory, grains of rise an dall of that. Just amazed that someone would think people are weakminded to fall for that as an argument.

Would I ever be quintillionaire? If they keep printing / creating money the way they are, then yep.
 
If you don't have faith in the stockmarket or in sterling over the next 5 to 10 years and see Ethereum as an emerging market, why in the world would you keep your wealth in an asset class that you believe is going to tank in value.

It begs the question, how would you view someone who speculates on gold and other precious metals to protect their wealth?

ahahahaha nothing to say about being wrong about all sorts of shit now have you? Just quickly and quietly walk away from that one, lol.
And no, it doesn't beg the question at all because I already said (my emphasis):

Then they didn't cost you any money at all. You had a fictional value you decided something was worth but you never had that money and that fiction was simply you over valuing the assets you have.

And yes, i see all speculators as parasites on a productive system that add no value and simply increase the costs of things usually by being those middlemen you claim to hate so much.

but you have your inbuilt prejudices so you can't comprehend the idea that someone who doesn't like crypto also doesn't like the existing financial markets or economic system (but thinks cryptoland is worse in most if not all aspects as an alternative system). Actually I think speculators on metals are worse than crypto speculators because with crypto you are mostly if not only taking from other people who are speculating, whereas metals have actual uses all over the world and speculators push up the prices of things everyone needs or wants to buy, taking from all of us without adding any value into the system.
 
ahahahaha nothing to say about being wrong about all sorts of shit now have you? Just quickly and quietly walk away from that one, lol.
And no, it doesn't beg the question at all because I already said (my emphasis):



but you have your inbuilt prejudices so you can't comprehend the idea that someone who doesn't like crypto also doesn't like the existing financial markets or economic system (but thinks cryptoland is worse in most if not all aspects as an alternative system). Actually I think speculators on metals are worse than crypto speculators because with crypto you are mostly if not only taking from other people who are speculating, whereas metals have actual uses all over the world and speculators push up the prices of things everyone needs or wants to buy, taking from all of us without adding any value into the system.
Fair enough. But whether you like it or not, people have personel wealth. Let's start with wealth in a simple form. Savings in sterling.

How in the world, even in good times, how can someone protect their wealth from inflation?

Because older and wiser people, you know those who have been fucked in orrafice, have grown to learn that the biggest priority in life is not be a victim, than rely on other people for salvation.
 
Yep bravo. There's loads of new money in the system that comes from bad debt that know of us should worry our pretty heads about that or finding any escape route.
You mostly write in English, would you care to try that one again?

I'm well aware of the chessboard theory, grains of rise an dall of that. Just amazed that someone would think people are weakminded to fall for that as an argument.

It's a parable that's been around since the beginning of time. Rather than simply sneering maybe you should ask yourself why it endures and seems pertinent in a thread you've turned into pumping and fomo.

Come on, I'm willing to sell, isn't it about time you "did some serious research about how all the exciting stuff going on in the Ethereum eco-system and decided to buy"

 
Fair enough. But whether you like it or not, people have personel wealth. Let's start with wealth in a simple form. Savings in sterling.

How in the world, even in good times, how can someone protect their wealth from inflation?

Because older and wiser people, you know those who have been fucked in orrafice, have grown to learn that the biggest priority in life is not be a victim, than rely on other people for salvation.

Yes, in this world we do need to accumulate and protect wealth in order to retire at some point, and I think it's fair to want to retire. It's not the world I'd like to live in but it's the one we have now. Of course it has been possible in recent history to do so on a defined benefits company pension, or through collective provision of a state pension but at this point the first doesn't really exist anymore and the second is becoming increasingly unliveable even if you think that you'll live long enough to see it / for it to exist.

Your last sentence is just a stupid fucking sentence. Firstly because I don't know how old you are and you don't know how old I am. Secondly because "older and wiser" people disagree with each other about all sorts of stuff all the time. Thirdly because the second half is some kind of nonsense ultra-individualism parading as moralism. You know that everything you do relies on other people right? Like you've even said yourself you do nothing of value, but the people who write the dapps and stuff on the crypto you invest they do stuff which does add value and increases your wealth - you are relying on them for your salvation.


To answer your question I would say that the best place to put your wealth at this time would be to buy a house if you can afford one. Not only does that mean you are not just speculating, since you are going to use that house as your home, but you also add value by being a custodian of the building and ensuring it's upkeep for future use. Of course the housing market is insane and I'd like to see it brought down but that's not about to happen.

Second to that would be broad stock market investments, because these have a long history of long term growth, and a history of surviving through macro economic downturns and returning to growth afterwards. (with a side note that I think that ISAs are probably better but they have a limited amount you can put into them).

Crypto is too new to make it a suitable long term low risk investment, and it has never existed in a downward macro economic environment before now so I definitely wouldn't put my money there if I was looking at the next 5 years because anything could happen. It's so volatile that it seems unlikely that it'll ever make a good long term investment and you would need a suitable plan to phase out of it before retirement with a much longer window than you do with stock market based pensions.
 
editor can you ban this StakerOne guy from this thread (or even the forum). he's derailed the thread and has dodgy ideology (at best). I've already blocked him but seems to still be derailing it.
 
Yes, in this world we do need to accumulate and protect wealth in order to retire at some point, and I think it's fair to want to retire. It's not the world I'd like to live in but it's the one we have now. Of course it has been possible in recent history to do so on a defined benefits company pension, or through collective provision of a state pension but at this point the first doesn't really exist anymore and the second is becoming increasingly unliveable even if you think that you'll live long enough to see it / for it to exist.
Many have their own private pension. The Dutch government has it right. All employers have to have a pension for their employees. But also the Dutch government does what they can to encourage people to have their own private pension as well, with the ideal being that an indivdual has 3 pensions.

Your last sentence is just a stupid fucking sentence. Firstly because I don't know how old you are and you don't know how old I am. Secondly because "older and wiser" people disagree with each other about all sorts of stuff all the time.

I didn't mention you. I didn't mention my age. I was talking about as adults become older and wiser, they realise that the most important thing is not to become a victim. It's not about binary choices, it's about priorities.


Thirdly because the second half is some kind of nonsense ultra-individualism parading as moralism. You know that everything you do relies on other people right? Like you've even said yourself you do nothing of value, but the people who write the dapps and stuff on the crypto you invest they do stuff which does add value and increases your wealth - you are relying on them for your salvation.

Yep. That's why people diversify and/or hedge.


Thirdly because the second half is some kind of nonsense ultra-individualism parading as moralism. You know that everything you do relies on other people right? Like you've even said yourself you do nothing of value, but the people who write the dapps and stuff on the crypto you invest they do stuff which does add value and increases your wealth - you are relying on them for your salvation.

It would be if I was making an argument against the welfare state or judging people for the choices they have made.

Instead, I'm defending my choices against someone who is judging me for making those choices.

To answer your question I would say that the best place to put your wealth at this time would be to buy a house if you can afford one. Not only does that mean you are not just speculating, since you are going to use that house as your home, but you also add value by being a custodian of the building and ensuring it's upkeep for future use. Of course the housing market is insane and I'd like to see it brought down but that's not about to happen.

That's not possible to do with a private pension that hasn't matured yet.

The question is, what can be done with a private pension without offending your morality?

Second to that would be broad stock market investments, because these have a long history of long term growth, and a history of surviving through macro economic downturns and returning to growth afterwards. (with a side note that I think that ISAs are probably better but they have a limited amount you can put into them).

I thought in your world this is unearned income and money I wouldn't have made? Or have I got you misxed up with someone else?

So to clarify, someone who buys stock in Amazon isn't a problem?

I believe that stocks are going to go down over the next 18 months...and we already agree concerning inflation.

So that leaves, commodities including precious metals, bonds and crypto.

Crypto is too new to make it a suitable long term low risk investment, and it has never existed in a downward macro economic environment before now so I definitely wouldn't put my money there if I was looking at the next 5 years because anything could happen. It's so volatile that it seems unlikely that it'll ever make a good long term investment and you would need a suitable plan to phase out of it before retirement with a much longer window than you do with stock market based pensions.

And that is how poor people are kept poor. They are kettled into making "low risk" investments only, normally being bagholders for the rich.

When investing, nothing is off the table. Invest in what you know if you think it viable, research what you don't.
 
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editor can you ban this StakerOne guy from this thread (or even the forum). he's derailed the thread and has dodgy ideology (at best). I've already blocked him but seems to still be derailing it.

I won't tell him how to run his own forum, but if we don't all deal with opposing views on challenging subject matter, then we all become terrible critical thinkers. If I stayed within a crypto-bubble, I wouldn't know how to deal with normal people when I come into contact with them.
 
Dude , I'm just aiming for libertarian utopia by cashing in my guaranteed future income stream to buy a bunch of code. I thought that was what you wanted?

Anyhow, 99% of your arguments are demented, loon gibberish, laced with right wing faux class war.

Just because you say it, doesn't mean it's true.
 
You mostly write in English, would you care to try that one again?



It's a parable that's been around since the beginning of time. Rather than simply sneering maybe you should ask yourself why it endures and seems pertinent in a thread you've turned into pumping and fomo.

Come on, I'm willing to sell, isn't it about time you "did some serious research about how all the exciting stuff going on in the Ethereum eco-system and decided to buy"
My apologies, I've fat fingered som critcal words:
Here you go:
Yep bravo. There's loads of new money in the system that comes from bad debt that none of us should worry our pretty heads about, or find an escape route from.

There is no pumping and fomo. I don't encourage people to invest in on speculate on something they don't know much about. Mainly because they will sell (normally at a loss) at the first sign of trouble - they simply don't have a grasp of the fundamentals.

I see a whole bunch of people saying there isn't much use for crypto etc and that isn't the case.

I've defended my actions in speculating on it, in the belief that stocks and money won't hold their value.

What I really wish people would do, is research cryptos and web3 a lot more, because it's not going away.
 
My apologies, I've fat fingered som critcal words:
Here you go:
Yep bravo. There's loads of new money in the system that comes from bad debt that none of us should worry our pretty heads about, or find an escape route from.

There is no pumping and fomo. I don't encourage people to invest in on speculate on something they don't know much about. Mainly because they will sell (normally at a loss) at the first sign of trouble - they simply don't have a grasp of the fundamentals.

I see a whole bunch of people saying there isn't much use for crypto etc and that isn't the case.

I've defended my actions in speculating on it, in the belief that stocks and money won't hold their value.

What I really wish people would do, is research cryptos and web3 a lot more, because it's not going away.

oh just fuck off already
 
Oooh the irony! :D

I've had the thread blow the fuse on my irony meter several times in the last few weeks, and it's currently a quietly smouldering heap in the corner waiting on a new credulous crystal. But I still trust it more than crypto.
 
I've had the thread blow the fuse on my irony meter several times in the last few weeks, and it's currently a quietly smouldering heap in the corner waiting on a new credulous crystal. But I still trust it more than crypto.
If you think you're right, you would always see irony in the words of someone who disagrees.

No one here has debunked a whole bunch of valid use cases I've made re crypto, with some retreating into the whole "We can't regulate it because it ain't in pound and pence" line.
 
Strange that I never think that about those that disagree with mr, but I guess it's more frustrating to be in disagreement with someone who is factually correct than incorrect.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You going to ask me again to show one time - just one time - where you said something that was completely incorrect, with total certainty that it was definitely true?
 
Many have their own private pension. The Dutch government has it right. All employers have to have a pension for their employees. But also the Dutch government does what they can to encourage people to have their own private pension as well, with the ideal being that an indivdual has 3 pensions.



I didn't mention you. I didn't mention my age. I was talking about as adults become older and wiser, they realise that the most important thing is not to become a victim. It's not about binary choices, it's about priorities.




Yep. That's why people diversify and/or hedge.




It would be if I was making an argument against the welfare state or judging people for the choices they have made.

Instead, I'm defending my choices against someone who is judging me for making those choices.



That's not possible to do with a private pension that hasn't matured yet.

The question is, what can be done with a private pension without offending your morality?



I thought in your world this is unearned income and money I wouldn't have made? Or have I got you misxed up with someone else?

So to clarify, someone who buys stock in Amazon isn't a problem?

I believe that stocks are going to go down over the next 18 months...and we already agree concerning inflation.

So that leaves, commodities including precious metals, bonds and crypto.



And that is how poor people are kept poor. They are kettled into making "low risk" investments only, normally being bagholders for the rich.

When investing, nothing is off the table. Invest in what you know if you think it viable, research what you don't.
You made a moralistic and judgemental statement that you now realise applies to yourself. Live with it, don't try to avoid the implications of your own words.

You asked what someone could do with their wealth to protect it, not what someone can do with a private pension. I'm pretty sure you can't invest a private pension into crypto either.

Anyone earning returns from dividends of shares is indeed earning off other people's work and if there was an alternative for retirement I'd be in favour of that but that doesn't seem possible at this point in time. There's a world of difference between accepting that there is no ethical investment under capitalism and revelling in the worst excesses of it.

Capitalism is what keeps poor people poor. Rich people can afford to make risky investments.
If you have something with a 1/100 chance to succeed paying off at 1000:1 that's a good bet to make. If you are poor and can only make one of these bets, you'll probably lose. But if you are rich and can make 100, chances are that one will pay off leaving you with 10X profits.

Crypto is hyper capitalist and will only serve to accentuate this dynamic. A lot more people will have lost money than become rich from crypto and the distribution of bitcoin is insanely uneven, far worse than even the USA, with wealth massively concentrated in a few hands.

When investing you should consider your reason for investing and what that means for the amount of risk you want to take and how long you are investing for. If your investment is required to pay for things like food and rent then high risk investments should absolutely be off the table, because of you lose them you are fucked.

I'm not interested in 18 months, I'm interested in 20 years. Personally i think crypto will fall further in the next 18 months than broad stock indexes will and I have no idea if they will survive or recover from what is coming. I'm absolutely certain that eg the ftse 100 will still be around, that many companies will still pay dividends during this time and that share values will recover over the next two decades. Really though the return doesn't come on share prices but on dividend payments and reinvestments so share prices dropping over the next 18 months isn't of much importance, and their recovery is less important that the continued payment of dividends.
 
Strange that I never think that about those that disagree with mr, but I guess it's more frustrating to be in disagreement with someone who is factually correct than incorrect.

Couldn’t be arsed. Not because you have been correct about anything :)
 
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You going to ask me again to show one time - just one time - where you said something that was completely incorrect, with total certainty that it was definitely true?
I mentioned something about a common law I believed exists. I might be wrong about that, that is true, but I've already admitted that I might have wrong about that. But that doesn't undermine everything I've said about crypto.

There most me about 30 things I've said about crypto (Ethereum in particular), that has gone unchallened. After all of that, there are still people on here pretending that it has no purpose or value.
 
You made a moralistic and judgemental statement that you now realise applies to yourself. Live with it, don't try to avoid the implications of your own words.
No I didn't. Stop judging me by your own standards. It wouldn't surprise me if you judged everyone you disagreed with the way you go on.
Anyone earning returns from dividends of shares is indeed earning off other people's work and if there was an alternative for retirement I'd be in favour of that but that doesn't seem possible at this point in time. There's a world of difference between accepting that there is no ethical investment under capitalism and revelling in the worst excesses of it.
So we should all be fucking victims of the greedy and put our faith in som glorious leader who'll reward us with a bullet in the head just so he can stay one step ahead against any potentional rivals? I promised I wouldn't judge you, so I'll have to be polite and tell you stick that one up your arse until it puts a smile on your face. If you want to be a victim, you fucking crack on.

Capitalism is what keeps poor people poor. Rich people can afford to make risky investments.
If you have something with a 1/100 chance to succeed paying off at 1000:1 that's a good bet to make. If you are poor and can only make one of these bets, you'll probably lose. But if you are rich and can make 100, chances are that one will pay off leaving you with 10X profits.

Corruption, greed and general misdirection and misinformation from people like you keeps people poor.

A regulatory system that favours the rich rather than normal investors keeps people poor and when that's pointed out, people like you swoop in and say it's all about capitalism.

Do you really think that under socialism and communism we'd even have computers, mobile phones etc?

It's capitalism that got women out of the kitchen and in control of their lives. In comparision, communism has killed more people than just about anything else.

Crypto is hyper capitalist and will only serve to accentuate this dynamic. A lot more people will have lost money than become rich from crypto and the distribution of bitcoin is insanely uneven, far worse than even the USA, with wealth massively concentrated in a few hands.
It's not hyper capitalist and it's quite early in the market to be honest. How many rich people are involved etc doesn't actually mean anything compared to the fundamentals. From where I'm sat, it's even more important that normal working class people get involved if there is a long way to go before full adoption.

Besides, you're just shitting your pants that it will liberate working class people to the point that communism will be taken off the menu for good. And if it is, that's great. Not a bullet fired and millions of lives saved.

When investing you should consider your reason for investing and what that means for the amount of risk you want to take and how long you are investing for. If your investment is required to pay for things like food and rent then high risk investments should absolutely be off the table, because of you lose them you are fucked.

You said there is no such thing as ethical investing? Make your fucking mind up.

You're mixing good investment advice with overly-cautous investment advice.

You've also ignored many comments I've made on that subject.

If you scroll back and actually fucking start reading my comments, I've already said that people shouldn't invest in something they don't understand, ergo, fucking research the stuff first.

When it comes to day to day investments, that aren't an ISA or pensions, then yes, people should be paying of debts and putting food on the table and ONLY investing / speculating with money they can afford to lose.

Of course there should be risk management in any investment portfolio, but if you can't afford to pay your bills or you're in debt, you shouldn't be investing anything no matter what the risk is.

I'm not interested in 18 months, I'm interested in 20 years. Personally i think crypto will fall further in the next 18 months than broad stock indexes will and I have no idea if they will survive or recover from what is coming. I'm absolutely certain that eg the ftse 100 will still be around, that many companies will still pay dividends during this time and that share values will recover over the next two decades. Really though the return doesn't come on share prices but on dividend payments and reinvestments so share prices dropping over the next 18 months isn't of much importance, and their recovery is less important that the continued payment of dividends.

Bitcoin and Ethereum will be around in 20 years. Will the FTSE 100 still be around? I don't know but that won't matter because most of the companies on it today will have their shares tokenised and on a blockchain.

You just cannot get it into your skull that blockchain technlogy makes everything much easier and that includes being able to raise cash with those tokenised assets as collateral. Whether someone should do that is their own business. I might even say they shouldn't but they should have the right to do so, if that's what they want to do.

For someone who is against capitalism, you sure do talk about stocks and shares in a neutral way.

Let me leave you with a little story before I fuck off to bed.

Remember that black tory headmistress, you know Katherine Birbalsingh.

Now you can agree of disagree about her being a tory, or whether her methods are effective, but the parents certaintly think her and her school is effective and the kids do well.

So of course she started to get loads of stick ... and she noticed a pattern.

She noticed that in all of these meetings full of people making speeches about how her school is dangerous should be shut down etc, she didn't notice anyone black.

They was all quite frightfully hidiously middle class and white.

And then it dawned on her. Those fuckers were sending their kids to private schools and didn't want the state funding an effective school that would see well educated kids from the working class ghetto competing against white middle class kids for those well paying jobs.

Liberal middle class scum are always full of kind life advice, but they never do as they tell you to do and their dishonesty knows no bounds.

If it's one thing a certain breed of person doesn't want working class people doing, is investing as those fuckers would be competing for those nice houses near the nice schools.

I suppose those middle class liberals would call it "social stability", to go with "financial stability"

Fucking vermin.

And please, spare me your thoughts about how you want everyone to have a state education. I've heard it all before.
 
No I didn't. Stop judging me by your own standards. It wouldn't surprise me if you judged everyone you disagreed with the way you go on.

So we should all be fucking victims of the greedy and put our faith in som glorious leader who'll reward us with a bullet in the head just so he can stay one step ahead against any potentional rivals? I promised I wouldn't judge you, so I'll have to be polite and tell you stick that one up your arse until it puts a smile on your face. If you want to be a victim, you fucking crack on.



Corruption, greed and general misdirection and misinformation from people like you keeps people poor.

A regulatory system that favours the rich rather than normal investors keeps people poor and when that's pointed out, people like you swoop in and say it's all about capitalism.

Do you really think that under socialism and communism we'd even have computers, mobile phones etc?

It's capitalism that got women out of the kitchen and in control of their lives. In comparision, communism has killed more people than just about anything else.


It's not hyper capitalist and it's quite early in the market to be honest. How many rich people are involved etc doesn't actually mean anything compared to the fundamentals. From where I'm sat, it's even more important that normal working class people get involved if there is a long way to go before full adoption.

Besides, you're just shitting your pants that it will liberate working class people to the point that communism will be taken off the menu for good. And if it is, that's great. Not a bullet fired and millions of lives saved.



You said there is no such thing as ethical investing? Make your fucking mind up.

You're mixing good investment advice with overly-cautous investment advice.

You've also ignored many comments I've made on that subject.

If you scroll back and actually fucking start reading my comments, I've already said that people shouldn't invest in something they don't understand, ergo, fucking research the stuff first.

When it comes to day to day investments, that aren't an ISA or pensions, then yes, people should be paying of debts and putting food on the table and ONLY investing / speculating with money they can afford to lose.

Of course there should be risk management in any investment portfolio, but if you can't afford to pay your bills or you're in debt, you shouldn't be investing anything no matter what the risk is.



Bitcoin and Ethereum will be around in 20 years. Will the FTSE 100 still be around? I don't know but that won't matter because most of the companies on it today will have their shares tokenised and on a blockchain.

You just cannot get it into your skull that blockchain technlogy makes everything much easier and that includes being able to raise cash with those tokenised assets as collateral. Whether someone should do that is their own business. I might even say they shouldn't but they should have the right to do so, if that's what they want to do.

For someone who is against capitalism, you sure do talk about stocks and shares in a neutral way.

Let me leave you with a little story before I fuck off to bed.

Remember that black tory headmistress, you know Katherine Birbalsingh.

Now you can agree of disagree about her being a tory, or whether her methods are effective, but the parents certaintly think her and her school is effective and the kids do well.

So of course she started to get loads of stick ... and she noticed a pattern.

She noticed that in all of these meetings full of people making speeches about how her school is dangerous should be shut down etc, she didn't notice anyone black.

They was all quite frightfully hidiously middle class and white.

And then it dawned on her. Those fuckers were sending their kids to private schools and didn't want the state funding an effective school that would see well educated kids from the working class ghetto competing against white middle class kids for those well paying jobs.

Liberal middle class scum are always full of kind life advice, but they never do as they tell you to do and their dishonesty knows no bounds.

If it's one thing a certain breed of person doesn't want working class people doing, is investing as those fuckers would be competing for those nice houses near the nice schools.

I suppose those middle class liberals would call it "social stability", to go with "financial stability"

Fucking vermin.

And please, spare me your thoughts about how you want everyone to have a state education. I've heard it all before.
Agahahahhaba you really can't cope with someone not agreeing with you can you.

Good bye
 
I mentioned something about a common law I believed exists. I might be wrong about that, that is true, but I've already admitted that I might have wrong about that. But that doesn't undermine everything I've said about crypto.

There most me about 30 things I've said about crypto (Ethereum in particular), that has gone unchallened. After all of that, there are still people on here pretending that it has no purpose or value.
"Might be wrong" ahahahahahha.

You are completely unable to even accept that you are flat out wrong about something as factual as that.

It says a huge amount about your mindset, why there's no point in having a discussion with you and why you fly off the handle with ludicrous responses like your last one to me.

You've also said loads of things about crypto which have been shown to be wrong, like the other the "facts" I posted up before when you asked. I guess we needed to record them on a blockchain for you to remember what nonsense you've spouted in the past. Oh well.
 
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