Bitcoin discussion and news
- Thread starter camouflage
- Start date
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
What if it's a bad contract? What purposes are served by making contracts indelible, when there could be any number of legitimate reasons to delete it? A mistake was made in writing it, it's not legally enforceable, and so on.
Thanks. Honestly, please don't laugh, but I'm just going to have a quick shave and shave and I promise I'll reply to your question.
What makes you think a "crypto fan" is any less likely to pay their taxes than say a regular person who also has to pay their taxes voluntarily?
It's my opinion that they are more likely to pay their taxes because there are countless crypto influencers on youtube who beg their followers to do exactly that, for the reason being as I've told you before, is that the authorities can see all the transactions!
(No I haven't had my shave yet!
)Why would I pay 75% taxes on my income? No one in the UK is mandated to do that.
To be honest, I think you were almost pissing yourself with laughter when you typed out that comment, but I'm glad you're having fun too.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
I think influencers do want their followers to pay taxes.
Crypto influencers or influencers in general? Is there something you're implying here? Don't be shy, chuck it into the arena!
EVM blockchains are becoming a standard protocol. So even if your business looks and feels conventional, somewhere it's on a blockchain.
That doesn't mean all the transactions will be visible to the public, but you'll be able access them .. which also means that you'll be able to go over to a government web3 website and just pay the taxes that you haven't already paid - because once you logged onto the government website AND signed off on them being able to read your private data - that's it, there's no mistakes that you can be blamed for - you just pay the amount outstanding.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
People don't mind other people paying taxes. It's just their own that sting.
Unless you are hard core libertarian.
Normally because a lot of people hate sitting down and doing painful maths to work out how much they actually owe.
If all of my finances were on web3 blockchains ... at ANY time, in theory, I could go to a government website, login and it would tell me the outstanding taxes I owe right bang up to date and how much I should pay.
So if I made a killing in January, I could "cash out" to GBP on the blockchain - then rush over to the government website for it tell me instantly, that because I've made money recently, what the tax is on that money and I simply pay up.
That's painless. That's easy. I don't know how many more people would use it, but it would be a lot.
The normal centralised entities don't have much to lose because they could simply write such data blockchains in such a way that ONLY they and the affected customer can see the transaction.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
I just used excel. Now it's PAYE.
But this doesn't really change the point I was making.
But this doesn't really change the point I was making.
Good for you. But blockchains have the potentional to be a one size fits all solution.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
And the potential to be hellscapes.
Mostly are hellscapes at the moment.
Hope springs eternal I guess
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Have you ever done a self-assessment tax return to HMRC?
Because honestly although it's been a few years really all you do if you don't have some really complicated finances is put in how much you've earned from self-employment income, employment income and capital gains and HMRC tell you how much you owe. If you do have some complicated finance, you will want an accountant and blockchains recording transactions won't change that (any more than blockchains tracking house deeds will allow you to work without a solicitor - I mean you can do conveyancing yourself at the moment but you generally employ someone who knows what they are looking for to make sure you don't buy a house with some weird covenants on it or things like that)
Just because you only do it annually rather than through the year doesn't mean you need a blockchain to do it. I'm sure there are calculators on HMRC website you can use to check what you currently owe if you want although I've never looked for them.
It's not like the US where they've intentionally made it hard to work out the taxes because of lobbying from companies like turbotax (iirc the name correctly).
Every new technology has the potential to be a hellscape. This one isn't going away. It can't be stopped.
Supine
Newt Member
I just can’t see the benefit of having a currency on a blockchain. I have a tenner in my pocket, why would i care who had it last?
Returning money accidentally sent to you is not a real world problem.
The currency side of blockchain is just a ponzi scheme to try and make money while the Bitcoin miners burn more and more energy fucking the environment. I’d be very surprised if anyone can convince me otherwise!
I’m sure Blockchain does have some great uses, just not this.
Returning money accidentally sent to you is not a real world problem.
The currency side of blockchain is just a ponzi scheme to try and make money while the Bitcoin miners burn more and more energy fucking the environment. I’d be very surprised if anyone can convince me otherwise!
I’m sure Blockchain does have some great uses, just not this.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
I don't think it will be necessary to "stop" a trivial advancement in bookkeeping.
You don't need a blockchain to do your taxes. Agreed.
But then again you don't need Excel either.
This is about making things fairer, transparent, easier and cheaper for all involgved.
Houses absolutely can be done on a blockchain .. all that would happen is that there conveyancing papertrail would be replaced by NFTs with the raw data on the blockchain and any documents stored on the IPFS.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Circles UBI – A basic income system for communities
www.joincircles.net
right well this UBI circles things looks like bollocks.
What they say on the website front is that you get unconditional payments but when you look at the handbook it's quite clear that you must contribute something of real world value to the network to get "circles" tokens. The handbook reads like a LETS system except you need a reserve of 5X real world value stuff to the amount of circles tokens you get.
They use bread as the base example. There's nothing in the handbook about being able to receive unconditional payments. It doesn't add up to a UBI at any point. It's a LETS or local currency type scheme as far as I can see. You get circles by supplying someone who already has them with something they want, and then you use those circles to buy things/services from other people.
It wouldn't be a trivial advancement in bookkeeping. Ask any one of the big auditing firms out there. They are loving this technology because any business that runs entirely on a blockchain (even if the transactions are encrypted) can be audited within seconds. Yes it saves millions but it's not just about money. Mistakes cause real stress.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
With taxes though my point is that you can already do what you want in the UK. It's not a technological issue and blockchains don't make it easier. You will still need an accountant if you have complex finances to make sure you get things right in the tax return, or you won't if you don't and can do it as it is done now.
With houses you need the solicitor because they understand what they are reading when they do the surveys and searches. They stop you from making a big fuckup because they have knowledge that you don't. It's not a technological issue. Storing documents on IPFS doesn't help you if you don't understand what those documents mean. It's not about the papertrail.
Supine
Newt Member
I used to own a house but some Korean hacking collective got to my NFT. Oh well, thems the breaks.
And? I never claimed it's a replaced for UBI, but then again, with the state of the world today, a nationa state based UBI is dangerous because then it could be used as a wegde to get us all onto CBDCs.Circles UBI – A basic income system for communities
right well this UBI circles things looks like bollocks.
What they say on the website front is that you get unconditional payments but when you look at the handbook it's quite clear that you must contribute something of real world value to the network to get "circles" tokens. The handbook reads like a LETS system except you need a reserve of 5X real world value stuff to the amount of circles tokens you get.
They use bread as the base example. There's nothing in the handbook about being able to receive unconditional payments. It doesn't add up to a UBI at any point. It's a LETS or local currency type scheme as far as I can see. You get circles by supplying someone who already has them with something they want, and then you use those circles to buy things/services from other people.
I find it strange that you woudn't have a problem with the "Brixton Pound" for example, but a "Brixton Pound" that contributes back to the community?
But if HMRC looks at the blockchain to determine how much you owe in taxes, why do we need an accountant? HMRC will tell you what you owe, you pay it and that's the end of it.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
OK, so auditing firms will find it useful. That's still not some world-shaking revolution that will up-end the current system, as prophesied by the crypto evangelists. Last I checked auditing firms were as much a part of the current system as anything else.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
And? I never claimed it's a replaced for UBI, but then again, with the state of the world today, a nationa state based UBI is dangerous because then it could be used as a wegde to get us all onto CBDCs.
I find it strange that you woudn't have a problem with the "Brixton Pound" for example, but a "Brixton Pound" that contributes back to the community?
Yeah you did claim it was a replacement for UBI as per the first quote there. And they claim it's UBI but it isn't. It's the same as LETS or local currency.
Plus I didn't say it's a bad thing to be a LETS or local currency - I said it's bollocks that it's UBI which is what they (and you) claimed it is, because it's a LETS or local currency.
And I have plenty of issues with local currencies, why would you assume I don't?
edit: also in now way does this "contribute back to the community". People involved in the scheme put in real world value and that gets exchanged around using circles as tokens to track the value/debt obligations. When you get circles you get them because you have put in value to 5X that amount into the system.
Last edited:
BigTom
Well-Known Member
what if you disagree with HMRC? Do you just have to accept what they are saying. Sounds pretty authoritarian to me.
It's a journey. Blockchains have eco-systems of projects and projects have developers. It's not like it's one product that launches, makes an impact and that's it.
The internet is very much different than it was in 1990. People would have made all sorts of predictions back in the day. Back in 1990, many would not have believed you had told them that great swathes of the population use their TV to watch streaming services rather than terrestrial TV.
Audiing firms are part of the system because they audit firms that are - but never the less, they are encouraging blockchain usage to cut down on costs and mistakes.
Storm Fox
Trying the find the next noun to verb
So the government can use it to stop tax evasion and therefore must have access to your wallets, or do you just give the wallets you want to be taxed to the government so tax is voluntary?
Replying to your previous point about why I don't think people who use Crypto are going to pay more tax is because a lot of the biggest players in Crypto are anti-tax.
Similar threads
