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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

Louis MacNeice said:
I've just looked that up and no it didn't involved gravy (which would be good, but probably not with cheese and wasn't on offer anyway) or curd cheese (just no).

Cheers - (a slightly peckish) Louis MacNeice
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When I've had it's had gravy, and the cheese curds were actually just like normal cheese, but melted under the gravy.

Best chip dish ever.

Although the Belgian/Dutch chips are nice too.
 
chilango said:
When I've had it's had gravy, and the cheese curds were actually just like normal cheese, but melted under the gravy.

Best chip dish ever.

Although the Belgian/Dutch chips are nice too.
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They only ever use mayo in those places which I like on chips etc but they use way too much..!!
 
bignose1 said:
Ive been using my tagine 3 times a week sometimes when I dont really need to ie with fish dishes....that doesnt really need slow cooking.
Since losing my job Ive got more into my cooking..maybe thats where I might go...fuck going back into social housing with all that bedroom tax bollox...!! But still like a meat pie chips peas and gravy from time to time...
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yes but whose pies? hollands every time!
 
malatesta32 said:
yes but whose pies? hollands every time!
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who's pies? OUR PIES :mad:

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BobFromBrockley said:
Joe, Framed, I basically agree with you. (I don't buy into the RA "line-pushing"/"meeting packing"/"ruse" position; sorry if I gave that impression!) The point about the branches is important.

I think in the mid-1990s when AFA was at its peak, Fighting Talk listed 30-something branches. (There are 31 listed in 1997 http://libcom.org/files/FIGHTING TALK - 16.pdf for example, including Wigan, York, Southampton, Colchester, Exeter, Ipswich.) On the one hand, some (quite a few?) of these were probably tiny or defunct; on the other hand, there were actually always 3 fairly sizeable London branches, as well as several isolated individuals in places like Kent or Somerset that bought into the AFA "brand" and could be mobilised for it, but weren't organised in branches.

I think AFA was unusual in the sense that the "brand" (as created through the 1989 relaunch and its clarification of a militant, two-track position) was endorsed by many more people than ever signed up to the organisation formally, and the loose national structure enabled considerable autonomy for local groups that were barely semi-detached at a national level (although sometimes regionally networked). And on a more local scale, AFA was able to mobilise people for actions who never came to meetings. (My understanding - I'm not sure if this is right - is that even in London there were members of the Stewards Group (or people who be drafted into it for specific actions) who never went to branch meetings.) It was in this very large outer layer that the shock of the game being declared over took longest to reach but hit hard. This was probably more apparent to those outside London, but even in London it did create "recriminations", even if not on the scale the "revisionist" line suggests.

It seems to me that, for all of its successes in the early 2000s, the shift of energies to IWCA without maintaining some structure that could keep this wider movement alive and connected to it meant that a lot of the energy was lost - and this contributed to IWCA's unability to sustain itself on the same high level for too many years. In other words, AFA was at the heart of, and set the agenda for, a <b>movement</b>, whereas IWCA wasn't, and the loss of that movement is something we are paying the price for now.
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The London 'recriminations' you refer were located solely amid certain elements in South London who it was noted at the time took up a line of argument not too dissimilar to the line minted in Leeds.

Despite this everything was dealt with on a 'straight bat' basis which included not responding to the threats of violence directed against the RA members in it.

The 'shift of energies' argument has merit only if you ignore totally the BNP (and by extension the entire far-right) cessastion which began in 1994 and was complete by 1997.

It probably bears repeating that the real 'shift of energies' was within the BNP which transformed itself from an old school street-fighting force into an electoral party and thus increased its vote a 100 fold in a decade and a half. (That this bank of support is now leaking and reinforcing the UKIP surge is hardly any cause for celebration, as it can just as easily 'leak' back again for one.)

As you say AFA was able to set the agenda for a wider anti-fascist movement but there was literally nothing for the IWCA pilot schemes to identify with.

As we put it at the time 'the notion of a Labour Movement is a myth'.

There was nothing to do but start from scratch. Start from scratch or - do nothing.

It is this reality that the wider Left are still struggling to come to terms with today.

Or as Owen Jones put it in The Independent only this week: "The truth is, the right has been winning the intellectual argument for 30 years."

Since the IWCA was saying precisely that - but - in the mid-1990's we can safely make that 45 years then.

And not only has the Right been winning intellectually it has (including fascism proper) been adapting strategically and tactically too.

Not only here but across Europe. This too has been evident since the mid-80's.

From the Left in the same period?

Withering scorn and contempt and screams of heresy following even the slightest suggestion that we may need to consider a change of plan.

It is that wilful stupidity that we are just beginning to 'pay the price for now'.
 
You leave out Respect and its attempts to forge something out of the anti-war movement. I'm curious as to why?

Edit: I see why Respect is left out. It's the 'start from scratch' scenario. To do what?
 
barney_pig said:
Didn't know what these holland pies were when they were mentioned on here, all the pies in our chip shops are pukka.
Then I went into tescos this morning and saw a box of holland pies in the freezer #powerofurban
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If youre ever in Conway try Edwards pies in their shop on the hill.....awesome..!!
ps Im on my way to London shortly to meet an old friend...thats why Im up at this time...I will be swerving pies etc and will be on Brick Lane at some point later.
 
If you decide on a curry in Brick Lane be aware of the chilies served in separate side-dishes - they're very hot!!! Even the green ones.
 
bignose1 said:
If youre ever in Conway try Edwards pies in their shop on the hill.....awesome..!!
ps Im on my way to London shortly to meet an old friend...thats why Im up at this time...I will be swerving pies etc and will be on Brick Lane at some point later.
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Conway?

Do you mean Conwy?

Tsk.
 
audiotech said:
If you decide on a curry in Brick Lane be aware of the chilies served in separate side-dishes - they're very hot!!! Even the green ones.
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Yeah...I was down there last year...in the dips a bit too enthusiastically....first time in ages....I'll remember this time.
chilli.jpg
 
phildwyer said:
The French actually call the Belgıans 'les frıtes.' I don't thınk ıt's a complement.
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They also 'mock' them as stupid because the Walloons are seen as thick' because they speak slowly. They rather view the Belgians in the same manner the Irish are stereotyped over here. The 'irony' is that the further south you go the way people talk speeds up and that those who live in the NE of France round Pas de Calais etc also speak slowly like the Walloons.
 
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